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Thread: Why the new design

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    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    Default Why the new design

    The old Ojibway and Lingit canoes were designed not to roll over as the canoes of today allow. The old way the proud bow and stern acted like a hand slapping the water and righted the canoe most times.The tipping allowed some water in to lower the center of gravity making it easier to jump back in.Gear was not lost as the canoe did not flip over. What happened?
    Now left only to be a turd in the forrest and the circle will be complete.Use me as I have used you

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    Member mainer_in_ak's Avatar
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    Got a documentary of those canoes, stunning to say the least. I'd only once day dream of incorporating design and styling of some of the tall bows/sterns into a project boat someday as an old fart.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Amigo Will View Post
    The old Ojibway and Lingit canoes were designed not to roll over as the canoes of today allow. The old way the proud bow and stern acted like a hand slapping the water and righted the canoe most times.The tipping allowed some water in to lower the center of gravity making it easier to jump back in.Gear was not lost as the canoe did not flip over. What happened?
    Was this before fiberglass?

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    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    Yep it was BC in fact. I belive the Vikings picked up on the design their first time to North America.
    Now left only to be a turd in the forrest and the circle will be complete.Use me as I have used you

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    Member mainer_in_ak's Avatar
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    Watching them build, they fill the big cedar log with hot water, and rocks from a fire. They then are able to spread it open and produce even more beam to the canoes. I don't know if everyone uses that method, the the Haida and Tlingit do. Out of all the boats indigenous to this region, the big canoes were my favorite, follow by the Baidarka made by the Aleut.


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    Member mainer_in_ak's Avatar
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    You aint taking much water over a stern/bow like this one:


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    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    The bride really enjoyed the 2012 trip to Juneau from Wrangell. I believe the yearly canoe festival will be at Wrangell this year and I'll give a shout Mike if you want to be here.
    Now left only to be a turd in the forrest and the circle will be complete.Use me as I have used you

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    Nice vids there Maine-ah... Thanks for sharing

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    Member sayak's Avatar
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    Your point is well taken Will, but maybe modern canoes try to emulate kayaks which are meant to roll?????
    Also, having paddled one of those high bow/stern fiberglass models (it was supposed to look like a woodland birch bark canoe) in a cross wind, I found that they acted like a sail, and not in a good way.

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    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    Yep the kayak rolls but you don't lose gear and with the proper stroke it rights itself.The native peoples did use a type of sail on windy days so the proud fore and aft didn't matter.Also like us old farts it it was to bad out heck just go tomorrow or the next day. I've noticed once you get far enough north the native didn't worry much about going in the water.I believe they felt with their cold water and exposure it was probably over anyway.It looks to me only in the last forty years or so you find Alaskan natives that know how to swim learning in school pools.

    The bride was in the red canoe about half way through the vid. They are getting ready to go ashore on island in Auk Bay the last night of the journey before hitting Juneau final leg and party.
    Now left only to be a turd in the forrest and the circle will be complete.Use me as I have used you

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    Member sayak's Avatar
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    Maybe, but Alaska Athabaskan BB canoes had little or no raised bow or stern and were partially decked. I have known many Athabaskans, who, in spite of living on rivers, did not know how to swim, nor did they have any gut parkas for immersion.

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    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    Agree and they are the people from the very cold north I mention.They brought what they knew with them to Canada where they met the Cree.
    Now left only to be a turd in the forrest and the circle will be complete.Use me as I have used you

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    Member sayak's Avatar
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    Last of the Mohicans has some good scenes of the canoes of which you speak. If I remember correctly, so does TheBlack Robe.

  14. #14

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    Is the question why does modern canoe design differ from traditional design? It does't, we are just looking at different species of boat. Modern canoe design is based on a the voyageur canoe (which of course was based on the native birch-bark design), a boat that could be solo paddled or carried deep into the forests of eastern North America, loaded heavily with furs and other tradable goods. The modern 'prospector' design proved to be the best of most worlds, and is what I would call the father of modern canoe design. It is a very different boat from the ones pictured above, which were war canoes, whose main purpose was very different. The shape of the Aleut and Tlinkit canoes could actually be better described as a dory than a canoe by todays definitions.

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    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    Based on the birch bark canoe is about as different as Out of Africa book to movie. I don't se the improvement other than the new ones hold a motor if wanted.For a light one man canoe the old one that don't flip over as a rule seems much better than one that does.Todays definitions of the past have put us where we are today and for me we keep going backwards and led to believe its all the rage.
    Now left only to be a turd in the forrest and the circle will be complete.Use me as I have used you

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    I happen to be of the belief that canoes do not in fact tip over. People fall out of canoes. There is a big difference.

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    you are correct that people do fall out of them but they do tip over also it depends on a lot of thing's but it can happen the voice of a person that has had it happend to him [doing stupped things both times ]

  18. #18

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    I've used both styles, round and hi bow and stern and modern, and especially for solo paddling give me the modern every time. I can control the tippiness of the hull but not the wind. With any breeze at all the old design is exhausting to keep tracking a line.
    Mike
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    There is a faster way off the mountain, might hurt a little though.

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    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    I think some of the control problems come from seats insted of kneeling on smaller canoes. When I need power and control I kneel but my knees are old so for sunny days a seat is nice.
    Now left only to be a turd in the forrest and the circle will be complete.Use me as I have used you

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