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Thread: sq stern canoes...planning devices?

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    Thumbs up sq stern canoes...planning devices?

    In several posts in different threads, people mentioned planning devices on 19' Grummans ... one was said to be screw adjustable ... another was removable....

    The only ones I'm familiar with are the Stingray type that bolt to the anti- cavitation plate.

    What are they referring to? Have you used one...seen one? Are they really useful? If someone has pictures, would appreciate seeming them.... Thanks.

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    Default planing devices for sq stern...?

    I misspelled planing...a device which provides hydrodynamic lift at speed and helps the boat to plane. Thanks.

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    A fellow offered me a Grumman Sq. stern 19' the other day which I believe he said had a planing device on it. If I recall correctly, he described it as a 'beaver tail'-shaped contraption, apparently mounted near the bottom of the stern, possibly on the aft of the hull..

    You can find his offer in my 'WTB' ad that I'd placed in the 'swap and sell' forum, and perhaps reach him through there. I think that he left either a telephone number, or could possibly be reached through a PM here.

    ruffle

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    Default Plannind Div

    I have seen a divice on the back end of the 19 ft it was a pice of rubber bolted to the side of the conoe [each side] it helped to bring the back up some when going fast, it should work, as the faster you go the bow will go up an that the back end is narrower than the middle it will go down if it bugs you don't go so fast, the conoe is acting just like any boat the faster you go the less boat in water it is just that the back end of conoe is so narrow compaired the the middle [40 in.] good luck,

    PS. the max speed on a 19 ft Grumman is about 12 MPH with a 15 HP on it good luck

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    Any more thoughts on this? I have an 18 foot Frontiersman with a wine bottle stern and put a 6.5 horse long tail on it. Without serious weight in the front, like my uncle and other gear, and even then, if I try to go much faster than a stiff idle the bow comes up. Maybe bolt some UHMW strips on both sides near the stern angled upwards to try to push the stern up? I love the boat and it's hauling capacity, but just wish I could go a little faster without so much bow rise.

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    The easiest solution i have found is a five gallon bucket with a screw on lit...fill with water sit in bow. and away ya go. if you are lucky and gain some weight during your outing pour out the water or fill bucket with your catch and away home you go..works like a charm in my freighter..and i have run up some pretty good rivers alone...I do have the a lift on the back..

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    Agree with Lak...water ballast in a container up in the bow being the simplest method. Next for me is the addition of a hydrofoil on the outboard. That is a work in progress now and I am hoping then I can limit the number of water jugs for ballast.

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    Would placing a five gallon gas can work? and your gear?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yukon Cornelius View Post
    Would placing a five gallon gas can work? and your gear?
    No, that won't work. it's too easy. Actually, the only draw backs to that are a)as you run out your fuel you lose your ballast, and b.) it requires you to run a fuel line the length of the boat which just increases the risk of something knocking or cutting the line. That second one can be overcome by attaching it the line with adel clamps under the gunwales.

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    you can use most anything for ballast , a gas tank up front, great the only problem you can have is in small streams / rivers if you loose power
    look out [ air in line ] I did the front gas tank for a lot of years an used a clear fuel line [ you could see the air bubbles ] that way you could work them out befor you leave the ramp , bad news going down or up a stream an loose power , this only happend when you frist start out for the day
    after hooking up the tank SID

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    Quote Originally Posted by FL2AK-Old Town View Post
    No, that won't work. it's too easy. Actually, the only draw backs to that are a)as you run out your fuel you lose your ballast, and b.) it requires you to run a fuel line the length of the boat which just increases the risk of something knocking or cutting the line. That second one can be overcome by attaching it the line with adel clamps under the gunwales.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sid View Post
    you can use most anything for ballast , a gas tank up front, great the only problem you can have is in small streams / rivers if you loose power
    look out [ air in line ] I did the front gas tank for a lot of years an used a clear fuel line [ you could see the air bubbles ] that way you could work them out befor you leave the ramp , bad news going down or up a stream an loose power , this only happend when you frist start out for the day
    after hooking up the tank SID
    Thanks guys. How much fuel would or should one expect to burn using a 5hp motor? I am also assuming that you would want the bow to stay in the water?

    Canoeing is new to me...

    What I was thinking of doing (before actually figuring this all out) is place my extra gas up front. I plan on always having a reserve of four gallons (in case I run into someone that needs it 2 gallons of 2 cycle and 2 regular). Then I would place my pack and other stuff up front. I like the five gallon bucket of water idea as well and thought that I could use a hand pump to fill or remove water as needed. This would strictly be my summer plans. Once moose season rolls around, it may change. I know that I am a big guy and FL2AK recommended a good way to counter the solo paddeling idea. The gas I burn I thought of placing in quart water bottles (I saw that recommended in an earlier thread). I really have no idea what I am doing. I just know I have access to a canoe as of today in my village. I may make an offer on it. As of right now, I get to borrow it. I'd rather buy it

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    Once you use the gas in front the ballast is gone. Can't go wrong having five gallons of clean water for use.If thhere ain't room for two gas cans and a bucket of water its a very small canoe indeed.
    Now left only to be a turd in the forrest and the circle will be complete.Use me as I have used you

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    Quote Originally Posted by Amigo Will View Post
    Once you use the gas in front the ballast is gone. Can't go wrong having five gallons of clean water for use.If thhere ain't room for two gas cans and a bucket of water its a very small canoe indeed.
    And if you have the bucket empty and then if you had to use the gas you could simply add water to replace in the bucket. I think I'm going to start a new thread. It can be random question answer type about canoeing. Might be simpler than searching? What say you guys? Especially with all the old threads coming back to life.

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    this bucket idea is good but you want a """ CAP """ on the container or you will have water on every thing in the canoe ,, well maybe not every thing but a lot any way SID

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    I use lead weights. A two quart tomato or juice can full of lead weighs 33 lbs on my fish scale. Three cans snugged right in the nose of the canoe give me 100 lbs of ballast. I take a clean tomato can, screw a door hasp on it then fill it full of molten lead. Works good.

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    A guy that use to be on here call "Oyster" and he knew hs stuff too......told me to use "SWISS WATER BAGS " .they are 9.95 each...and when full of water,they weigh 47 lb each,and they conform to the shape of the hull. If Iam by myself, i will put 5 bags up front.Works slicker than snot on a door knob .....so don't say I nevah told yah anything.

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    All this discussion of ballast, to be honest, seems silly to me. The more you put in the boat, the more you have to drag over a log or portage. I understand the need to adjust trim of the boat, but it seems to me that you probably have so much gear (if you're going prepared) that you shouldn't need to add dead weight (lead) to the boat. Tooling around a lake for a morning cruise is one thing-sure toss a boat anchor or something in the front, but a four or five day trip is quite another.

    For example, instead of ballast up front, why not pack something useful, like a chainsaw, fuel and oil? Instead of a block of lead, how about a tool kit with a spare prop? I think you should first give serious thought to what you're doing, and where you're going, and form that, make a packing list of supplies and gear that prudence and experience dictates as necessity and THEN worry about "ballast." These freighter canoes are awesome tools, but don't let the nick name fool ya-it's not a cargo barge. If you get a moose or other large animal you're almost certain to have to make a second trip and, if you're good at Tetris at all, you'll find a way to load the canoe and keep it in trim.

    PS: If you do find you really need ballast to keep yr loaded canoe in trim, the I have to agree with Amigo Will-water is the best possible material to use. It is environmentally benign, which means if you decide you don't need the ballast, or just don't want to carry it over that long portage, you can just dump it on the ground with no consequences. Thirty pounds of lead tossed over board or left on the ground near the river won't be so clean. Having a surplus of safe drinking water is never bad. What of yr filter craps out on you? (Then you deploy your filter repair kit that you packed, right?) What if you let your filter repair kit? (The you use the aqua tabs you lacked, rot?) See what I mean about having plenty of gear to pack?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yukon Cornelius View Post
    Thanks guys. How much fuel would or should one expect to burn using a 5hp motor? I am also assuming that you would want the bow to stay in the water?

    Canoeing is new to me...

    What I was thinking of doing (before actually figuring this all out) is place my extra gas up front. I plan on always having a reserve of four gallons (in case I run into someone that needs it 2 gallons of 2 cycle and 2 regular). Then I would place my pack and other stuff up front. I like the five gallon bucket of water idea as well and thought that I could use a hand pump to fill or remove water as needed. This would strictly be my summer plans. Once moose season rolls around, it may change. I know that I am a big guy and FL2AK recommended a good way to counter the solo paddeling idea. The gas I burn I thought of placing in quart water bottles (I saw that recommended in an earlier thread). I really have no idea what I am doing. I just know I have access to a canoe as of today in my village. I may make an offer on it. As of right now, I get to borrow it. I'd rather buy it
    What I was taught working a marina in FL was, for these older two stroke I outboards, you can figure on 1 gallon per hour per 10 horsepower at wide open throttle (WOT). Pulling back from WOT saves a good amount of fuel. How fast you can go is affected by load and trim, so that effects your "mpg" so to speak.

    As far as carrying spare fuel goes that is very prudent. Some 747 pilots I worked with often said "fuel is insurance against the unexpected, but it requires fuel to carry fuel." What they meant was fuel has weight and weigh increases drag and increasing drag burns more fuel. As far as carrying some 2 cycle and some 4 cycle, don't. It's too easy to mix fuel on the go. If you're running a 2 stroke engine but want to carry "give away" fuel as a Good Samaritan, then carry everything as unmixed 4 stroke fuel. Mix oil and fuel for your own use as you need it. This is also helpful if you're carrying a chainsaw because most chainsaws and most outboards have very different fuel to oil mixture ratios. carrying unmixed fuel with oil in a separate container gives you maximum flexibility without sacrificing anything.

    I once tried to store gasoline in aluminum water bottles and the fuel dissolved the little o rings and they leaked. Half especially. Isn't work. I have some anti freeze in a Nalgene bottle and it's been ok for several years now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sid View Post
    this bucket idea is good but you want a """ CAP """ on the container or you will have water on every thing in the canoe ,, well maybe not every thing but a lot any way SID
    for sure on the cap or lid. One advantage of using water is if you had to portage you can dump and replace.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zack View Post
    I use lead weights. A two quart tomato or juice can full of lead weighs 33 lbs on my fish scale. Three cans snugged right in the nose of the canoe give me 100 lbs of ballast. I take a clean tomato can, screw a door hasp on it then fill it full of molten lead. Works good.
    Not a bad idea, but I think my plans would call for something else. I like my 4 gallons of extra gas idea. 2 of 2 stroke and 2 of regular. Or just my gear. I always carry a pack with three days of food and a gallon of water as well as a tent and change of clothes (1st aid kit too). I also would find what could be useful toolwise on a canoe in case mechanical issues. But not to bad. Something that could always stay in canoe.
    Quote Originally Posted by nessmuck View Post
    A guy that use to be on here call "Oyster" and he knew hs stuff too......told me to use "SWISS WATER BAGS " .they are 9.95 each...and when full of water,they weigh 47 lb each,and they conform to the shape of the hull. If Iam by myself, i will put 5 bags up front.Works slicker than snot on a door knob .....so don't say I nevah told yah anything.
    This is another good idea.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sid View Post
    this bucket idea is good but you want a """ CAP """ on the container or you will have water on every thing in the canoe ,, well maybe not every thing but a lot any way SID
    Quote Originally Posted by Zack View Post
    I use lead weights. A two quart tomato or juice can full of lead weighs 33 lbs on my fish scale. Three cans snugged right in the nose of the canoe give me 100 lbs of ballast. I take a clean tomato can, screw a door hasp on it then fill it full of molten lead. Works good.
    Quote Originally Posted by FL2AK-Old Town View Post
    What I was taught working a marina in FL was, for these older two stroke I outboards, you can figure on 1 gallon per hour per 10 horsepower at wide open throttle (WOT). Pulling back from WOT saves a good amount of fuel. How fast you can go is affected by load and trim, so that effects your "mpg" so to speak.

    As far as carrying spare fuel goes that is very prudent. Some 747 pilots I worked with often said "fuel is insurance against the unexpected, but it requires fuel to carry fuel." What they meant was fuel has weight and weigh increases drag and increasing drag burns more fuel. As far as carrying some 2 cycle and some 4 cycle, don't. It's too easy to mix fuel on the go. If you're running a 2 stroke engine but want to carry "give away" fuel as a Good Samaritan, then carry everything as unmixed 4 stroke fuel. Mix oil and fuel for your own use as you need it. This is also helpful if you're carrying a chainsaw because most chainsaws and most outboards have very different fuel to oil mixture ratios. carrying unmixed fuel with oil in a separate container gives you maximum flexibility without sacrificing anything.

    I once tried to store gasoline in aluminum water bottles and the fuel dissolved the little o rings and they leaked. Half especially. Isn't work. I have some anti freeze in a Nalgene bottle and it's been ok for several years now.
    I like the carry regular and half the oil on side. I could then just carry 2 gallons of gas.

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