View Poll Results: Is it feasible...

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  • No, I'll keep what I got.

    16 30.77%
  • Not interested in a single shot.

    5 9.62%
  • There is a market and I'm it.

    8 15.38%
  • More interested in a lighter repeater.

    23 44.23%
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Thread: Flyweight Rifles? A poll.

  1. #1
    Member hodgeman's Avatar
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    Default Flyweight Rifles? A poll.

    I've been thinking about some real flyweight rifle options- given the technology we've applied to bolt guns to shed weight like the Remington Ti, Browning Ti, Kimber Ascent, what would happen if you applied that same type of technology to something like a Ruger #1?

    At least in theory, the single could be built trimmer, lighter and stronger than any bolt gun. A falling block action trimmed to minimum dimensions, made out of high speed alloy (titaniam, etc.) with a thin barrel and set in a Kevlar/composite type stock could really get the weight down to unbelievable numbers and be shorter than even a carbine rifle with a full length barrel.

    The Europeans have a long tradition of flyweight singles- ie. The Blaser K95, Merkel. and they're lightweight with walnut furniture and engraving sporting a big Euro scope....

    So here are some questions...
    "I do not deal in hypotheticals. The world, as it is, is vexing enough..." Col. Stonehill, True Grit

  2. #2
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    Assuming it is true that a SS could be made lighter than a BA, I think the idea has merit.

    The SSs I've seen, seem to have lotsa metal, so I's dubious, IMO.

    Also, there is a limit on how lightweight a rifle chambered for a given cartridge, should be.

    Who wants a 2 lb. 300 Magnum? (Probably some would, buy only a few.)????

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  3. #3
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    The TC is pretty light already but could easily be made lighter. The trouble with a flyweight is if it's in a heavy hitter caliber, it kills in front and cripples behind. A 7mm 08 can be made pretty light. A 416Rem would get ugly in a 4 lb gun. A mini low wall in 218Bee, 25/20, 256Win or some such would be neat but only if priced right. I didn't vote as none of the choices fit my line of thinking.

  4. #4
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    I saw a write up a while back on 24hour I think about a guy whittling down a #1, forget what caliber and what it came out to but it made a significant change.

  5. #5
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    for me, I never "met" a lightweight I didn't like - as a rule, and I've yet to own a NULA so they aren't in the conversation for me, lightweights are definitely more tedious to get to shoot tiny groups but if you are patient and the rifle is put together correctly there will be one or two that shoot petty good normally - the Kimber 84M in 308 with a good stiffly loaded 165 will get your attention but I surely would not call in "crippling", my new 84L Montana '06 is about the same but it'll work just fine for me - Forbes builds his 6 pounder in 338 win mag and puts right there in black n white that it is "manageable" hmmmmmm, I've shot a fair number of 338's over the years, the lightest I can remember was 7 1/2 lb and although it worked for a huntin rifle "manageable" at the bench depended on several different factors being attended to prior to touching it off - a real lightweight in even a moderately stiff recoiling cartridge "might" have a detrimental effect on one's memory .....
    Last edited by back country; 08-27-2012 at 07:29. Reason: spelling (poor)

  6. #6
    Member hodgeman's Avatar
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    I got to thinking about it in camp over the weekend. The Ruger #1 is about as strong as rifle actions get but the #1 rifle has a lot of extra chunk in it.... a quarter rib sight and a receiver that's big enough for a .500 Nitro.

    Wonder if you could trim that down to between 3 and 4 lbs when chambered for something on the order of a .270 or a 6.5x55? Recoil wuold be stiff but that's more of a stock design and technique issue than pure numbers. I've got a 7.25lb .300 and it's snappy but not punishing. I don't shoot it off the bench any more than I have to though.

    The TC has some extra heft as well as (IMHO) the worst stock design in the world for handling recoil- don't think the break open could be built as light as a falling block but with the K95 out there, maybe I'm wrong.
    "I do not deal in hypotheticals. The world, as it is, is vexing enough..." Col. Stonehill, True Grit

  7. #7

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    Single-shot rifles tend to take more tweaking to obtain standard bolt-action accuracy, but most would shoot minute of moose. If you wanted a 4.5 lb rifle; using a Ruger #3 action, a Kevlar stock, a lightweight scope and rings, a Christenson barrel might be possible. However it should be based on less than 308 recoil as any harder recoiling round might require a trip to the dentist.
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  8. #8
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    Is it feasable? Sure. But just because you can, doesn't mean you should. To my eye, aluminum and plastic guns are in a similar catagory as the anorexic 17 year olds we see in the magazines, modeling clothes that no real woman will ever wear... I'd rather carry a 'real' gun.
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  9. #9
    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    The Ruger #3 was the lightweight #1 and it could kick like a mule with full 45/70loads.The thing is if ten pounds is to much gun how will you ever get out a hundred pounds of meat?
    Now left only to be a turd in the forrest and the circle will be complete.Use me as I have used you

  10. #10
    Member hodgeman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amigo Will View Post
    The Ruger #3 was the lightweight #1 and it could kick like a mule with full 45/70loads.The thing is if ten pounds is to much gun how will you ever get out a hundred pounds of meat?
    It's not that a 10lb gun is too much, but when combined with a full camp, meat, cape, etc at altitude...every ounce counts. My lightweight .300 shoots 3/4" groups and is very manageble- don't know what adding an extra pound or two would bring to the party other than me dragging it all over. If I could get the same sort of performance with dropping another pound or two on the gun I'd think that was a pretty good idea.

    Just wondering if anyone had thought about applied lightweight rifle technology to the single shot.
    "I do not deal in hypotheticals. The world, as it is, is vexing enough..." Col. Stonehill, True Grit

  11. #11
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    Well the Ruger #3 was made in 45-70. The #3 weighed in at 6 lbs. I don't know what the Marlin guide guns weigh but they are also chambered in 45-70 and very popular. As Ameigo stated the little #3 with full modern 45-70 loads will keep you awake but it is managable. I don't see why something more powerful than a 308 should be a big deal.

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by redale View Post
    Well the Ruger #3 was made in 45-70. The #3 weighed in at 6 lbs. I don't know what the Marlin guide guns weigh but they are also chambered in 45-70 and very popular. As Ameigo stated the little #3 with full modern 45-70 loads will keep you awake but it is managable. I don't see why something more powerful than a 308 should be a big deal.
    While the Marlin is religated to shooting loads mildly hotter than the 300 grn factory loads, the #3 is capable of accepting nearly 458 WM power loads; It does however lack weight and the barrel length to utilize such loads.

    The Ruger #3 action is lighter than the #1 action and even though Ruger didn't chamber it in many caliber many people have rechambered it for other calibers; http://www.go2gbo.com/forums/index.php?topic=132846.0

    But my point is that as the rifle mass diminishes, the recoil + recoil velocities accelerate to a point undesireability. The owner of every firearm has to choose his own point, mine is about 30 Lbs ; a tad more than an 8lb 30-06 shooting 165 grn bullets.
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  13. #13
    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    The #3 under lever is the only difference in weight. They kick like heck in 450/400 even with a Bell&Carlson #1 stock on it
    Now left only to be a turd in the forrest and the circle will be complete.Use me as I have used you

  14. #14

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    I love ultralight! I'm currently shooting a custom 7-08 AI that weighs in at 5 lb 6 oz scoped with 4 round in the mag. Of coarse it is a bolt and not on target with what you are thinking but it is a very fun gun. Still has a 24 inch barrel and is a take down so I can put it in my pack when bushwhacking into sheep country. With handloads I easy shoot MOA at 300. An ultralight gun made right shots just as well as a normal rifle. It is the shooter that needs to learn how to shoot an ultralight to make it accurate.

  15. #15
    Member hodgeman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 350bull View Post
    I love ultralight! I'm currently shooting a custom 7-08 AI that weighs in at 5 lb 6 oz scoped with 4 round in the mag. Of coarse it is a bolt and not on target with what you are thinking but it is a very fun gun. Still has a 24 inch barrel and is a take down so I can put it in my pack when bushwhacking into sheep country. With handloads I easy shoot MOA at 300. An ultralight gun made right shots just as well as a normal rifle. It is the shooter that needs to learn how to shoot an ultralight to make it accurate.
    Can you PM me a pic and some more particulars on the rifle and the builder?
    "I do not deal in hypotheticals. The world, as it is, is vexing enough..." Col. Stonehill, True Grit

  16. #16
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    I,m with Hodgeman. I would love to have a rifle that matched those stats would you please Pm the same info to me. Thanks

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by 350bull View Post
    It is the shooter that needs to learn how to shoot an ultralight to make it accurate.
    Yup what he said. Many quality ultra lights are capable of minute of angle if we learn to master them. I also think that Brav01 was spot on when he eluded to about everyone has their limit as to what they can master.

    I just put together a 375 Ruger in a 20 inch 7.20 lb rifle(scoped). I shot a few rounds through it on sunday just to see..... and boy did I see....but it was no worse that my feather weight model 37 slug gun. I would say it is getting real close to having all of the fun that I want to have when shooting a gun! 5 years ago I would have said that I had no limit but the age factor does start to win out regardless of how bull headed we are. I was just beating Smokey to the punch on the bullheaded bit!

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Amigo Will View Post
    The #3 under lever is the only difference in weight. They kick like heck in 450/400 even with a Bell&Carlson #1 stock on it
    At one time I had 4 different 375 Winchesters and the only one that I notice the recoil with was the #3 and it was quite noticeable. I can't think that I'd be man enough for that 450/400!

  19. #19
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    Weight mitigates felt recoil. I'm more in the "get in shape to carry the weight" school of thought. If I'm hunting big game, I want a big game caliber. Big game calibers + light weight rifles = painful to shoot. Painful to shoot = not going to practice. Not going to practice = not going to be accurate. Not going to be accurate = Well, you get the idea. It might work for some people, but I'll stick to my conventional weight bolt guns.

    The other 299,300,000 people can have it.

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    I've been tempted several times to get .30-40 Krag AI barrel for my Contender with a Leupold ultralight. I thought that might be a 5lb gun that would handle most things that need to be killed out a ways. In a little closer the .444 or .45-70 will do the job pretty well....just add in a light weight carbon fiber aftermarket stock. The AR's are less than 5 lbs with carbon fiber upper and lower parts so I don't see any reason you couldn't make a single shot or bolt using similar technology. I do find very light guns hard to shoot without a rest.
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