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Thread: Alaska's fish should benefit Alaskans- NOT Seatte!

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    Default Alaska's fish should benefit Alaskans- NOT Seatte!

    "For more than a quarter century, three Washington-based crab boats named Bering Sea, Arctic Sea and North Sea worked harvest grounds off Alaska, then sent profits south to their Puget Sound owners."

    This quote is from: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...skafish02.html

    Obviously written from the perspective of Seattle it tells how the Seattle area benefits from OUR fish and how some of our Native groups are trying to change things a bit.

    Interesting information includes the figures for tax revenue from the comm boats in Seattle:

    "$167 million in tax revenue to state and local governments."

    - that is about FOUR TIMES what the comm industry pays in general tax revenue to the state of Alaska!

    Read it and weep - and hope the Native groups can make some changes so that Alaska can reap more benefits from OUR fish. We need to manage our resources for OUR benefits - NOT Seattles!
    Living the urban lifestyle so I can pay my way and for my family's needs, and support my country. And you?
    ".. ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" JFK

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    Question

    Might this thread be better posted on the Global Discussion forum since it deals with general, socio/economic/political issues affecting Alaska's seafood industry as a whole and says nothing whatsoever about management of Alaska's fisheries?

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    Interesting article. However, let's make sure we understand that, for the most part, these resources are under FEDERAL jurisdiction. They are not under State jurisdiction. So we should not refer to them as being "Alaskan" fish or crab or whatever. They are not.

    Read the article carefully and take note of the actions of Senator Ted. He agreed (back in 1976) that these resources did not belong to the State of Alaska, but he made sure that Alaska got a majority of the votes on the North Pacific Management Council. The reason being is that these resources are generally referred to as being off the Alaskan coast (e.g., Bering Sea).

    I have no trouble with the Alaskan fishing groups elbowing their way into a Federally managed fishery, as long as discrimination is not part of the equation.

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    Wink

    There are ugly rumors that pulp wood harvested in Alabama is being shipped to paper mills outside the state, iron ore mined in Michigan is being sent to refineries in Pennsylvania, and lobsters caught in Maine are being cooked in California. Truly a deplorable situation.

    If the subject matter here gets any more ludicrous*, Mike could can it and sell it to Saturday Night Live.

    Carry on . .



    *Jingoism is extreme patriotism in the form of aggressive foreign policy. In practice, it is a country's advocation of the use of threats or actual force against other countries in order to safeguard what it perceives as its national interests. Colloquially, it refers to excessive bias in judging one's own country as superior to others Ė an extreme type of nationalism.

    Xenophobia is defined as an intense or irrational dislike or fear of people from other countries or as an unreasonable fear or hatred of foreigners or strangers or of that which is foreign or strange. It comes from the Greek words ξένος (xenos), meaning "stranger," "foreigner," and φόβος (phobos), meaning "fear."
    Xenophobia can manifest itself in many ways involving the relations and perceptions of an ingroup towards an outgroup, including a fear of losing identity, suspicion of its activities, aggression, and desire to eliminate its presence to secure a presumed purity. Xenophobia can also be exhibited in the form of an "uncritical exaltation of another culture" in which a culture is ascribed "an unreal, stereotyped and exotic quality".

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    Default "Alaskan" fish

    The fish and crabs are generally referenced and marketed as "Alaskan" so I'll use that as a general description.

    While we have no control over fish caught in federal waters and never touching Alaska, we do have some control over fish that are processed in Alaska. We can certainly petition the EPA as to waste dumped in our harbors and just off shore also. We could also tax fuels and add other charges to boats using our harbors and facilities.

    The comment about "the Alaskan fishing groups elbowing their way into a Federally managed fishery" is interesting. While the fish may be federally managed our support services are not federally managed - we can "discriminate" anyway we like within the law.


    Quote Originally Posted by Cohoangler View Post
    Interesting article. However, let's make sure we understand that, for the most part, these resources are under FEDERAL jurisdiction. They are not under State jurisdiction. So we should not refer to them as being "Alaskan" fish or crab or whatever. They are not.

    Read the article carefully and take note of the actions of Senator Ted. He agreed (back in 1976) that these resources did not belong to the State of Alaska, but he made sure that Alaska got a majority of the votes on the North Pacific Management Council. The reason being is that these resources are generally referred to as being off the Alaskan coast (e.g., Bering Sea).

    I have no trouble with the Alaskan fishing groups elbowing their way into a Federally managed fishery, as long as discrimination is not part of the equation.
    Living the urban lifestyle so I can pay my way and for my family's needs, and support my country. And you?
    ".. ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" JFK

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    Good info Cohoangler.

    Not sure what compels someone to think Seattle boats shouldn't send their profits to their Seattle owners?

    Could this thread be yet more of the same demonizing commercial fishing mantra posted by the same person over and over.....it sure appears that way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
    There are ugly rumors that pulp wood harvested in Alabama is being shipped to paper mills outside the state, iron ore mined in Michigan is being sent to refineries in Pennsylvania, and lobsters caught in Maine are being cooked in California. Truly a deplorable situation.

    If the subject matter here gets any more ludicrous*, Mike could can it and sell it to Saturday Night Live.

    Carry on . .



    *Jingoism is extreme patriotism in the form of aggressive foreign policy. In practice, it is a country's advocation of the use of threats or actual force against other countries in order to safeguard what it perceives as its national interests. Colloquially, it refers to excessive bias in judging one's own country as superior to others Ė an extreme type of nationalism.

    Xenophobia is defined as an intense or irrational dislike or fear of people from other countries or as an unreasonable fear or hatred of foreigners or strangers or of that which is foreign or strange. It comes from the Greek words ξένος (xenos), meaning "stranger," "foreigner," and φόβος (phobos), meaning "fear."
    Xenophobia can manifest itself in many ways involving the relations and perceptions of an ingroup towards an outgroup, including a fear of losing identity, suspicion of its activities, aggression, and desire to eliminate its presence to secure a presumed purity. Xenophobia can also be exhibited in the form of an "uncritical exaltation of another culture" in which a culture is ascribed "an unreal, stereotyped and exotic quality".
    At this point, I think these guys would argue over the wetness of water.

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    Marcus, I mostly agree with your posts, but your analogies here fail. Let me fix them for you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
    There are ugly rumors that pulp wood harvested in Alabama, by out-of-state companies, is being shipped to paper mills outside the state, iron ore mined in Michigan, by Pennsylvanian companies, is being sent to refineries in Pennsylvania, and lobsters caught in Maine, by boats from California, are being cooked in California. Truly a deplorable situation.
    Alaska is, and always has been, a resource colony for the rest of the USA and the world. And like other places used for resource extraction very little of the value of the resource sticks to the extraction point .
    I may be slow, but I get where I'm going!

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    Quote Originally Posted by .338-06 View Post
    Marcus, I mostly agree with your posts, but your analogies here fail. Let me fix them for you. Alaska is, and always has been, a resource colony for the rest of the USA and the world. And like other places used for resource extraction very little of the value of the resource sticks to the extraction point .
    Couldn't agree more, .338, and the only way we will remedy that situation is by getting off our asses and start adding value rather than pissing and moaning about "Alaska First" BS.

    Whining and sniveling about how we're abused by whomever or whatever is grade-school nonsense, unfit for adult consideration.

    The analogies used in my previous post were satire., that's all.

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    I agree and disagree.

    While it HAS been that way historically does it always HAVE to be? I'd say no. Alaska can and hopefully will continue on working on it. Oil was a major first step in getting value for extraction. Other industries can and should be evaluated constantly. I'm not really against additional landing taxes for fish either really in a general way. All resource extraction should be utilized to the greatest benefit to the people and land. Alaska should always try to maximize the benefits when legal and appropriate. Different resource extractions have to be looked at as separate issues though. Oil is simply different than fish. (also fish is truly sustainable done right, and oil is not) I do agree Marcus that value added practices are sound. On the issue of a federally managed fishery though, one that is owned by the people of the US, I am not sure what TV ever wants. He loves oil, he hates commercial fishers imo from reading his posts, and he thinks there should be more tax revenue derived from commercial fish. As I said above I, like many Iím sure, would talk about tax revenue if it were presented honestly, and directly. Itís not.

    On the topic of this thread. (One of three that started on the same day more or less by tv) (all negative of the commercial fishing industry in one way or another).
    Federal fisheries are run by the M-S fishery management and conservation act with national standards that must be followed. In Alaska they generally are. Iím also sure that TV knows that Alaska canít tax it in the way he is expressing given the article is talking about federally managed fisheries.

    Then there is the fact that even IN that fishery Alaskan companies own a majority of rights, and vessels. They are called CDQ groups and own most (rough guesstimate of 50% on my part as they don't have to tell us really) of the groundfish fisheries in the Bering Sea. So really, I have no idea what tvís angle is really.

    The recent spat between the Pacific northwest and Alaska on the council seats has been really interesting lately though. If anyone wanted, I could find some links about it.

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    Default ready to take a break...

    If the oil industry continues to decline we will have no choice but to re-examine all our sources or revenue - what used to be will have to change. While I pointed out comm fishing as it is appropriate to this thread the same evaluation will have to be the tourist, timber, and mining industries as well. As to mining- I'm surprised that I haven't seen anyone bring up the potential tax revenues from the Pebble project - but that is off topic.

    I've been surprised and disappointed that no one has started any threads as the the postive sides of the comm fishing industries - some new uses for the fish waste, eliminating by catch, pollution reduction etc. I did start a very positive thread about what Copper RIver Seafoods was doing but it wasn't very popular and quickly died.

    As for me - I'm ready to take a break and go hunting before the snow flies. May also catch a few silvers along the way.

    When I get back I'll start some threads in the general topics about the negative side of the oil industry. As I've mentioned in the past I have some serious issues with all their out-of-state workers, and shipping all the gas outta state instead of building an industrial base to use it here for petro-chemicals and/or enchanced oil recovery of the vast amounts of heavy crude on the slope. No, I'm hardly in love with the oil industry, but like the rest of us I do appreciate the benefits they provide.

    Later...

    Quote Originally Posted by Akbrownsfan View Post
    I agree and disagree.

    While it HAS been that way historically does it always HAVE to be? I'd say no. Alaska can and hopefully will continue on working on it. Oil was a major first step in getting value for extraction. Other industries can and should be evaluated constantly. I'm not really against additional landing taxes for fish either really in a general way. All resource extraction should be utilized to the greatest benefit to the people and land. Alaska should always try to maximize the benefits when legal and appropriate. Different resource extractions have to be looked at as separate issues though. Oil is simply different than fish. (also fish is truly sustainable done right, and oil is not) I do agree Marcus that value added practices are sound. On the issue of a federally managed fishery though, one that is owned by the people of the US, I am not sure what TV ever wants. He loves oil, he hates commercial fishers imo from reading his posts, and he thinks there should be more tax revenue derived from commercial fish. As I said above I, like many Iím sure, would talk about tax revenue if it were presented honestly, and directly. Itís not.

    On the topic of this thread. (One of three that started on the same day more or less by tv) (all negative of the commercial fishing industry in one way or another).
    Federal fisheries are run by the M-S fishery management and conservation act with national standards that must be followed. In Alaska they generally are. Iím also sure that TV knows that Alaska canít tax it in the way he is expressing given the article is talking about federally managed fisheries.

    Then there is the fact that even IN that fishery Alaskan companies own a majority of rights, and vessels. They are called CDQ groups and own most (rough guesstimate of 50% on my part as they don't have to tell us really) of the groundfish fisheries in the Bering Sea. So really, I have no idea what tvís angle is really.

    The recent spat between the Pacific northwest and Alaska on the council seats has been really interesting lately though. If anyone wanted, I could find some links about it.
    Living the urban lifestyle so I can pay my way and for my family's needs, and support my country. And you?
    ".. ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" JFK

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