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Thread: 182 in Alaska

  1. #1
    Member agoyne's Avatar
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    Default 182 in Alaska

    After much research and reading on here on bush planes in AK, I really want a C180. I had planned on buying one actually until I started pricing insurance. I couldn't believe what insurance companies want for a low time pilot in a 180 in AK. Until I've got some AK time under belt(ALOT), I'm kinda leaning towards a 182. I've read on here that I need one with the manual flaps as well. I could also visit relatives in the lower 48 with it. I was really looking forward to getting into some hunting spots that could only be accessed ONLY with a plane and try to get away from the roads/crowds. What are you guys opinions? Can I still access remote hunting places with a 182 or do I just need to suck it up and get the 180? What is the biggest tires I can get? I found a '58 182 that really interested me. It has a low time IO 470 275 p-ponk conversion with the IO 520 conversion. I would love to have a fuel injection engine(carb ice). There is alot of experience on this forum and I would like your opinion. Since I am a very low time pilot (55 hours) and have not finished my PPL yet(just need checkride), I would probably have this plane ferried to SXQ or ENA when I get settled in January. Thanks

    1958 Cessna 182A SkylaneAF: 2,360 Hrs.Location: KS


    1958 Cessna 182A
    $64,900 USD
    TTAF: 2360
    Location: Kansas

    Low time - No Squak plane with great history. 275 HP P-Ponk conversion with IO 520 heavy case and new Crankshft, and rebuilt prop, both with about 400 hours. The front seats updated to articulating and covered in leather for a comfortable flight. While the plane is lacking in modern avionics it more than makes up in sound performance. There is no corrosion anywhere and upgrades such as Tannis heater, alternator, Garmin GTX 327 Mode C transponder, and 295 Garmin GPS with moving map are just a few of the many upgrades. Annual completed 5/25/2011 with all AD complied. Complete Logs!! All Gyro and Avionics overhauled or replaced. Both fuel cells replace.



    Airframe & Power Systems Information

    Engines:
    Loc. SMOH
    C 400
    D-Rated IO 470 - 275 HP P-Ponk with Heavy 520 Casing and New Crankshaft at Time of Re-build


    Props:
    Loc. Make TSN
    C McCauley 400



    Maintenance Condition

    Complete Logs: Yes
    • Flight Rules: IFR
    • No Corrosion
    • Annual Inspection Completed 26 May 2011




    Avionics/Radios

    • KX 170B MAC-1700
    • KX 175B
    • KMA-20 Audio Panel
    • 208 & 209 ILS Receiver
    • Garmin GTX 327 Mode C Transponder




    Additional Equipment

    • Tanis Heater - Articulating Pilot Seat




    Modifications/Conversions

    • 275 HP P-Ponk
    • McCauley Variable Speed Prop
    • KX 170B MAC-1700 & KX 175B
    • KMA-20 Audio Panel
    • Garmin GTX 327 Transponder
    • Tannis Heater
    • Alternator




    Interior

    • Year Interior: 1998
    • Number of Seats: 4
    • Leather, Rated 8




    Exterior

    • Year Painted: 1958
    • Rated 6






  2. #2
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    Well the KX 170 B's are about as bullet proof of a radio you can get. They will not give you any trouble. The problem I see for you is that at 55 hours TT is very low time. Most in Alaska will not even insure their airplanes for hull because its just way to expensive. Did you see the You tube video of that Pilot down in Idaho? Here is the problem, he was also a low low time pilot, just 300 hours in Airplanes, thou he was a seasoned helicopter pilot. Poor decision making to be sure. Its this sort of thing that you are going to be up against. While That 182 looks ok on paper its another thing once you get into the logbooks. The asking price is a little high but that is an issue when you put an offer on the table. You are going to need a little bit of seasoning as a pilot before going off airport. There are instructors up there that teach that sort of thing. You should look into it. I am not going to tell you what to do, its not my place. I would not be comfortable flying off airport with you at your experience level. I myself was looking at a 180 for personal use and well for fishing and hunting, With over 13K in my logbook I could not afford the insurance I would need to carry. The problem is the same for you too, low time tail wheel pilot, in my case lest than 50 hours. So its on hold till I build up more tail wheel time. What I am going to do is build up to 100 hours, then get a job as a tail wheel flight instructor, and build experience that way, and then find a charter job flying a tail wheel for a couple of years, then buy the 180! I will be around 65 years old by then, and maybe by then this foolishness will be out of my system. I will suggest that you build your time carefully what with your goal for your flying in mind.
    Last edited by BH206L3; 08-21-2012 at 04:37. Reason: correct Spelling Errors.

  3. #3
    Member agoyne's Avatar
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    Yeah BH206L3, you are totally right on everything. I plan on getting some off airport instruction before I go and trapsing off into the Wilds of Alaska. The price is a little high, but with the p-ponk conversion, that's probably 1/2 the value of the plane. I'm really not worried about avionics, I can add them and GPS's also. Thanks for your reply.

  4. #4

    Default This would be a nice 182


  5. #5
    Member agoyne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KLK View Post
    So would a beaver!

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    Good for you, you will be fine with it given some time and experience. As for the KX170B's those are my favorite radios. A GPS is easy enough. Nobody ever said hunting or flying was cheap, I myself have expensive hobbies on a very tight beer budget. And I don't even drink!

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    Straight tail 182s are great airplanes. They're identical to the same year 180s except for the gear. With appropriate tires a 182 is a very capable off-airport plane. A good driver in a 182 can operate in and out of 400' with average loads. Lots of Cub guys won't do that, so the big clue is to get good. Later 182s are good planes, too, but manual flaps are my preference.

    A Pponk engine mod is NOT fuel injected. And it doesn't need to be. There are LOTS of carb'd 0-520s running around. Including the one on my own 180. Carb ice is nothing to fear. It's something to manage. No big deal. The price of that plane may be a bargain or it may be too high. there's no way to tell until a good mechanic does an annual on it and a good pilot assesses how it flies. It's easy to drop $40K on the Pponk upgrade alone. Factor that into the price and it starts looking good.

    54 year old paint would concern me as much as anything. It'll cost you the better part of $20K for a good paint job these days. Another thought, an SID inspection might be something to negotiate on with the seller. If the plane has any hidden secrets you ought to find out before you buy it.

  8. #8
    Member Toddler's Avatar
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    Free advice is usually worth what you pay for it, so here is mine.

    At 55 Hrs you are starting with too much airplane. I do not think a 180/182 is beyond your skill level but I do think you will be better served with a smaller plane. Take your pick 150, 152, Pacer, Citabria, T-Craft, J3/5, C-170, PA12/14 just to name a few. All of these airplanes are entry level airplanes with a more reasonable purchase price. Use the money you save for AVGAS and experience. You will also have the added advantage of being in a better position to defign your needs when it comes to an airplane ie number of seats, float, skis etc...

    IMHO it is not realistic to think you will fly a 182 to the lower 48. Yes it can be done and you may do it more than once but after you do the math on travel time and the honest cost the airlines don't look so bad.

    Just my nickel,
    Drew
    Normal people believe that if something ain't broke, don't fix it. Engineers believe that if it ain't broke, it doesn't have enough features yet.

    Scott Adams

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    Yeah, Mr. Pid, after I wrote that thread, I read more about the P-Ponk and found out it was not fuel-injected. Thanks for clearing that up. Yeah, that is a long time for a paint job. I am overseas right now and I will be home in a week. I'm in no hurry to buy, just looking for a descent deal. I don't mind paying more if I get more in the plane. It's kinda like a parachute, you don't go into a store and ask for the cheapest one they got! I would probably be better suited to find a 182 in AK that has all of the AK mods that I would have to add anyways if I brought a plane up from the L48. The only reason I would buy a 182 over a 180 is the insurance. I can afford it, I just don't want to. I'm beginning to learn how much stuff cost in AK. Its ridiculous actually. Beyond ridiculous!

    Thanks Toddler for your .02. The smaller planes probably will be better suited for me I just don't like them. I've flown the 150 and 152 and I hate them. They have no power and are affected too much by wind IMO. Almost all of my solo time is in a 172 and I've flown a 182 once. Man I loved the fact you could just pull her up and go in the 182. The way I look at it, train and build up time in the plane you plan on flying.

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    There's nothing wrong with a low time pilot buying and flying a 182. Recognize your skill level and practice good judgement as you build time and experience and you should be fine. Bad judgement will bite you in any aircraft model. That applies no matter how many hours you have.

    Keep your eyes open for early 182s. One comes up for sale locally every once in a while. I'd recommend keeping an open mind to consider all models as they become available. Is a float kit important to you? Skis? Buy the best airplane you can afford. Spending the money up front for a plane in good condition and with the equipment and mods you want will be less expensive than buying a beater and trying to upgrade it. And you'll be in better position if you decide to sell it. At least that's usually how it works. You know how to get a $75K airplane? Two options. You can buy one, or you can buy a $50K plane and put $50K into it. Trust me on that. Upgrading airplanes is one of the worst investments you can make. Let the other guy take that hit. Good luck and fly safe.

  11. #11
    Member agoyne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Pid View Post
    There's nothing wrong with a low time pilot buying and flying a 182. Recognize your skill level and practice good judgement as you build time and experience and you should be fine. Bad judgement will bite you in any aircraft model. That applies no matter how many hours you have.

    Keep your eyes open for early 182s. One comes up for sale locally every once in a while. I'd recommend keeping an open mind to consider all models as they become available. Is a float kit important to you? Skis? Buy the best airplane you can afford. Spending the money up front for a plane in good condition and with the equipment and mods you want will be less expensive than buying a beater and trying to upgrade it. And you'll be in better position if you decide to sell it. At least that's usually how it works. You know how to get a $75K airplane? Two options. You can buy one, or you can buy a $50K plane and put $50K into it. Trust me on that. Upgrading airplanes is one of the worst investments you can make. Let the other guy take that hit. Good luck and fly safe.
    MR. Pid, what are calling early 182s?

  12. #12
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    Straight tail/manual flap models. The popularity of the 182 market in most places revolves around good cross country platforms, IFR capability, and cushy interiors. That favors the early models for value pricing. But don't dismiss other models.

    Here's a 182 that should get some attention. http://www.supercub.org/photoclass/s...p?product=2594

  13. #13
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    I went through this analysis 18 months ago. I had my heart set on a 170B with an O-360, or a 180. I looked at every 170 and 180 advertised on Controller, TAP, Barnstormers, etc. I got to the point where I thought I had my 180 picked out, to the point of having tickets, hotel, rental car, mechanic, all lined up to do a pre-buy on a pretty '53 180 in Michigan. The seller called me on the Friday before I left for a Monday flight that he'd sold the plane. Someone was watching out for me. . . .

    I have a friend who is a CFI and pretty experienced pilot flying for a 135 operator here in AK who pulled me aside to tell me that unless I was going to fly more than 200-300 hours a year, I should look at a 182. His reasoning was that

    a) the taildragger is going to cost you some flying days due to winds;
    b) the insurance costs of the 182 is almost half that of the 180, and
    c) the 182 will take you anyplace a 180 can take you, or should take you.

    I looked around and found my plane in Missouri. Similar specs - P-Ponked, newer radios, STEC-50 autopilot, newer paint, good (7) interior, bubble windows. Originally set up to fly fast cross-country by the previous owner (30+ years), I've dirtied her up a bit with bigger tires (6 on the nose, 8's on the mains - may go to 8.50's on the mains), a large nosefork, tailfeather protective rubber, etc.

    I'm still learning how to fly it well, and understand her capabilities still far exceed mine. Mr. Pid mentions a good pilot getting in and out of a 400' strip - I'm still at 700' and working to get to 600' consistently. The limitation is me . . .

    Mr. Pid also gives some great advice on buying and modifying the plane - start out with your wish list, and find the plane that is closest to that. Modding it after the buy will cost MUCH more than you ever thought . . .

    A straight tail with manual flaps is the ticket - I love having the instant change in configuration as opposed to the 2-4 second delay, but that's just me. Plus, I start my short field take off with one notch of flaps to build speed a bit quicker, then pop the second notch - the plane almost leaps into the air.

    The only negative? 15-17 gph at 135 kts cruise. She's thirsty . . . I can slow it down and burn 10-11 gph at about 100 kts, but where's the fun in that?

    Still on my wish list -

    1) Sportsman STOL
    2) Extended baggage
    3) Battery to firewall
    4) upgrade audio panel to a Garmin 340 w/ 4-place intercom

    A great resource is the Cessna Pilot's Association . They have a wealth of info on the 182, and a great buying guide for the 182.

    Here's a recent pic of me and out of town friend on a recent trip . . . I'm the guy in the vest and the uncoordinated color scheme of red and orange - my wife was appalled.

    Oh, and do some homework on the price - he's definitely high for that plane IMHO, given the marketplace and where that plane is at. In AK, people might get that price. Lower 48? Not so much . . .

    533432_10101397263075440_741746049_n.jpeg

  14. #14
    Member agoyne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sierra Hotel View Post
    I went through this analysis 18 months ago. I had my heart set on a 170B with an O-360, or a 180. I looked at every 170 and 180 advertised on Controller, TAP, Barnstormers, etc. I got to the point where I thought I had my 180 picked out, to the point of having tickets, hotel, rental car, mechanic, all lined up to do a pre-buy on a pretty '53 180 in Michigan. The seller called me on the Friday before I left for a Monday flight that he'd sold the plane. Someone was watching out for me. . . .

    I have a friend who is a CFI and pretty experienced pilot flying for a 135 operator here in AK who pulled me aside to tell me that unless I was going to fly more than 200-300 hours a year, I should look at a 182. His reasoning was that

    a) the taildragger is going to cost you some flying days due to winds;
    b) the insurance costs of the 182 is almost half that of the 180, and
    c) the 182 will take you anyplace a 180 can take you, or should take you.

    I looked around and found my plane in Missouri. Similar specs - P-Ponked, newer radios, STEC-50 autopilot, newer paint, good (7) interior, bubble windows. Originally set up to fly fast cross-country by the previous owner (30+ years), I've dirtied her up a bit with bigger tires (6 on the nose, 8's on the mains - may go to 8.50's on the mains), a large nosefork, tailfeather protective rubber, etc.

    I'm still learning how to fly it well, and understand her capabilities still far exceed mine. Mr. Pid mentions a good pilot getting in and out of a 400' strip - I'm still at 700' and working to get to 600' consistently. The limitation is me . . .

    Mr. Pid also gives some great advice on buying and modifying the plane - start out with your wish list, and find the plane that is closest to that. Modding it after the buy will cost MUCH more than you ever thought . . .

    A straight tail with manual flaps is the ticket - I love having the instant change in configuration as opposed to the 2-4 second delay, but that's just me. Plus, I start my short field take off with one notch of flaps to build speed a bit quicker, then pop the second notch - the plane almost leaps into the air.

    The only negative? 15-17 gph at 135 kts cruise. She's thirsty . . . I can slow it down and burn 10-11 gph at about 100 kts, but where's the fun in that?

    Still on my wish list -

    1) Sportsman STOL
    2) Extended baggage
    3) Battery to firewall
    4) upgrade audio panel to a Garmin 340 w/ 4-place intercom

    A great resource is the Cessna Pilot's Association . They have a wealth of info on the 182, and a great buying guide for the 182.

    Here's a recent pic of me and out of town friend on a recent trip . . . I'm the guy in the vest and the uncoordinated color scheme of red and orange - my wife was appalled.

    Oh, and do some homework on the price - he's definitely high for that plane IMHO, given the marketplace and where that plane is at. In AK, people might get that price. Lower 48? Not so much . . .

    533432_10101397263075440_741746049_n.jpeg
    Thanks SH for all that info. I had the same thing happen on the 180. I found one about 3 hours away from me that a aeronautical engineer owned. It was spotless and the he had some aluminum fabricated to go with all of the updated glass gauges, leather seats, the whole 9 yards. It was a steal. Sold before I could even get a mechanic lined up. I was sick. It was a blessing in disguise because I would have bought it in Arkansas and then I would have wanted to bring it to AK to find out I owed 6 grand for insurance.

    Yeah I'm a member of the Cessna Pilot's Association, Alaska Airmen's Association and AOPA. Loads of info to be had there. Kinda like Alaska Outdoors Directory Forums..LOL

    That's a nice looking bird. What model is she? Do you go off field with her?

  15. #15
    Member Sierra Hotel's Avatar
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    Thanks, it's a '58 182A. I take it "off-field", but realistically I don't take it places where only a Cub should go. Like I mentioned, learning to fly it properly without bending anything is a process, and while I might land it on a beach, or on a dirt road, or Bold airstrip, or the Knik - it'll never see the side of a hill near Lime Village to chase a caribou - unless the pilot cooling fan stops doing its' roundy roundy thing up front . . .

    ======On Edit=========

    Make sure you check out the Backcountry Pilot website - good info there too.

  16. #16
    Member agoyne's Avatar
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    Yeah well we have to be realistic on what our planes will do. Everyone of them have good things and bad things. Some are meant for the side of a hill and others not so much. Thanks for the info bro!

  17. #17
    Member agoyne's Avatar
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    Can anyone tell me what the biggest tires you can put on a 182?

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    With a Landes nose fork and an 850 on the nose you can use 29" Bushwheels or Alaska Tundra Tires' 850x10 or 29x11x10 Air Hawks on Seaplanes North adaptors or on AK Bushwheels' 10" wheels. To do a 29" tire upgrade with the Landes fork will cost around $6K.

    http://www.akbushwheel.com/images/st...heel_tires.pdf

    http://www.alaskatundratires.com/pdf...ML06242009.pdf

  19. #19
    Member agoyne's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Mr. Pid;1167444]With a Landes nose fork and an 850 on the nose you can use 29" Bushwheels or Alaska Tundra Tires' 850x10 or 29x11x10 Air Hawks on Seaplanes North adaptors or on AK Bushwheels' 10" wheels. To do a 29" tire upgrade with the Landes fork will cost around $6K.



    Really? Thanks for the info and links!

  20. #20

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    agoyne,
    there's one by me thats for sale..

    J model '66. 2910ttaf, 1100smoh post lights, garmin 430 king 155, ifr, 206 nose gear, auto pilot, stdby vac, ice detector, 4 place intercom, rosen visors, engine pre heater, always hangered, p&i excellent.. 59K

    At least the 206 fork is a start! LOL!

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