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Thread: The 410 (67 ga.) As a survival gun.....

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    Default The 410 (67 ga.) As a survival gun.....

    Be it shotgun, handgun or rifle (?) configuration, is the 410 really the best weapon to have stuffed in your blow-out (bug out, go) bag?

    I was at a gun show last year and found a table selling 410/2 1/2" uppers for the AR platform. As odd as that sounds the purveyor claimed they worked well and he had several different loads for the 410 in multi-projectile, single and shot. I thought it very interesting but the the uppers had 16" barrels and were smooth bore(??).
    A lot of folks seem to like the idea of the 410 in a handgun, a couple of models are quite popular but I think they are more of a novelty like the derringer in 45 Colt/410 21/2".
    Am I missing something? Can we actually kill anything at any distance at all with a 410 shot from a handgun? Oh I'd say the slugs and the multi's could do damage but how far are they realistically put anything down?
    What do you folks think about this little gun?
    Last edited by Murphy; 08-24-2012 at 13:49. Reason: To Correct the gauge. Thanks Amigo
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



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    When it comes to shotguns I pretty much draw the line at 28 ga. It is more expensive to buy ammo for but it loads at the same price as a 20 ga. or less. It handles like a 410 and shoots and patterns more like a 20 ga. without the recoil. Is it a survival gun ? NOPE because the ammo is harder to get, but it's sure a fine kids gun and a pleasure to carry and shoot in the field. There is an AK in 410,20,and 12 gauges which works flawlessly, think they are about the same price as the AR conversion. Once thought about converting the 410 ga AK over to a 45/70 semi-auto, should take a minimumal amount of work.
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    My biggest concern would be hitting a thin skinned big game animal beyond 30/40 yards, however I feel the .45 LC would do the job. (I am here referring to my Taurus Judge 3" barrel with 3" cylinders).

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    I wouldn't want to be pinned down at 30 yards and be armed with a 410. They impress a lot of people as a defense gun because there are a whole lot of people who can't shoot a handgun launching a single projectile.

    I shot a lot of pheasants with one as a kid and it was chambered for 2 1/2 inch shells only. However I also lost a lot of wounded birds. I was poor as a church mouse and it was what I had.

    I can't think of a single instance in which a hunter/shooter would not have a better choice of weapon than a 410......it would never be the first choice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by elmerkeithclone View Post
    I wouldn't want to be pinned down at 30 yards and be armed with a 410. They impress a lot of people as a defense gun because there are a whole lot of people who can't shoot a handgun launching a single projectile.

    I shot a lot of pheasants with one as a kid and it was chambered for 2 1/2 inch shells only. However I also lost a lot of wounded birds. I was poor as a church mouse and it was what I had.

    I can't think of a single instance in which a hunter/shooter would not have a better choice of weapon than a 410......it would never be the first choice.
    I think he is referring to the 410/45 long colts revolvers. I have done some tests using the Winchester Triple ought Buck Shot, and the five balls are not what I would want to get hit with. NOTE: everything in firearms is a compromise. If I expected to be "Pinned" down at 30 yards, I would have brought Hand'Grenades.

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    If it gets more significant that TKOing a belligerent red squirrel off the back porch...I'll pass.
    "I do not deal in hypotheticals. The world, as it is, is vexing enough..." Col. Stonehill, True Grit

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    Quote Originally Posted by Murphy View Post
    I was at a gun show last year and found a table selling 410/2 1/2" uppers for the AR platform.
    Ugh. Will this AR mania ever end? It's worse than disco; it just won't go away.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Murphy View Post
    Be it shotgun, handgun or rifle (?) configuration, is the 410 really the best weapon to have stuffed in your blow-out (bug out, go) bag?
    This question dovetails nicely with the question I raised in a recent thread. As of yet, I don't think anyone has spoke up in favor of the 410.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FL2AK-Old Town View Post
    Ugh. Will this AR mania ever end? It's worse than disco; it just won't go away.
    "You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to FL2AK-Old Town again."

    well said!
    "I do not deal in hypotheticals. The world, as it is, is vexing enough..." Col. Stonehill, True Grit

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    Quote Originally Posted by hodgeman View Post
    "You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to FL2AK-Old Town again."

    well said!
    LOL. Who said that? (I don't see it posted anywhere.)

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    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    .410 is 67 guage not 36.A .410 slug is about equal to a 32acp round. Remember guage is the number of lead balls the dia of bore to equal a pound makeing the 16ga. perfect. The .410 with 6 shot shoots as far as a 12ga. with 6 shot but a lot fewer pellets.. Past thirty years the .410 is mute but a twenty does fine if your a solid shotgunner.
    Now left only to be a turd in the forrest and the circle will be complete.Use me as I have used you

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    This was posted by Vince in another thread. In the right hands at the right distance it will do the job.
    heres one.. not over bait... just getting into stuffs...

    .410


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    Quote Originally Posted by Amigo Will View Post
    .410 is 67 guage not 36.A .410 slug is about equal to a 32acp round. Remember guage is the number of lead balls the dia of bore to equal a pound makeing the 16ga. perfect. The .410 with 6 shot shoots as far as a 12ga. with 6 shot but a lot fewer pellets.. Past thirty years the .410 is mute but a twenty does fine if your a solid shotgunner.

    Amigo, my friend. I'm gonna disagree with your 410 gauge. You're right about balls to the pound making 16 gauge round balls equal 1 ounce. This of course applies for pure lead. But I think the 410 is larger than 32. I have two European made 410 doubles. One over/under and one side-by-side both are clearly marked 36 Gauge. In central Europe the bore size is common and used hunting to take those big partridge from tree limbs. A 32 Gauge gun round balls would weigh 1/2 ounce. (This is actually the typical weight of the 410 slug but they aren't round) A 36 bore would use .444 ounce round balls. or about 7/16 ounce. The 410 name comes form the .410 bore size.
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    Quote Originally Posted by elmerkeithclone View Post
    I wouldn't want to be pinned down at 30 yards and be armed with a 410. They impress a lot of people as a defense gun because there are a whole lot of people who can't shoot a handgun launching a single projectile.

    I shot a lot of pheasants with one as a kid and it was chambered for 2 1/2 inch shells only. However I also lost a lot of wounded birds. I was poor as a church mouse and it was what I had.

    I can't think of a single instance in which a hunter/shooter would not have a better choice of weapon than a 410......it would never be the first choice.
    I whole heartedly agree. I think those who use these 45/410 revolvers erroneously believe they are as effective as a shot gun at 25 yards. They are about 7 to 10 yard guns in the hands of most. Most do believe as most believe (erroneously) that they "can't miss" with this shot gun, even a 3" barreled shotgun. Many shooters miss with the 12 gauge at 25 yards.

    I shot an interesting training course a few weeks back where the instructor blew folks away by asking them to engage targets at 100, 150 and 200 yards with the handgun they carried. My LB 1911 (and me) were the only team to even make a hit. I aced every target. Then I was seriously insulted by the other students when they were asking about the gun and where could they get one. (It's just a 45, 1911, folks) My instructor hated 1911's and asked if I wanted to borrow his Glock 21 before we started, claiming mine would fail before 50 rounds. It ran for three days and about 1200 rounds with only minor cleaning and oil at night.

    I'll admit the slugs and those multi (3 or 5) with the flat disc shaped or just 3 )) buck would be lethal out around 25 yards but when handicapped with that short barreled revolver to launch them, giving up need velocity and sight radius, I'd be hard pressed to be effective beyond that distance. Also I've found that the 410 slugs and the 45 Colt loads almost never hit same POI at 25 yards.
    The slugs are about 200 grains (some are 220 grains) and mostly we shoot 250 grains in the Colt, even when loading 200 or 225 grain 45 Colt rounds I can't regulate the two different loads.
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



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    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    England called the .410 36ga so it sounded European but Italy and Spain had the 28 and 32 guage and called BS on England. They told England to call it 67 gauge what it is or just leave it at .410 like everyone else.England then set the standard name back to .410 at the proof houses and the rest is history. The 28/32 have the same difference in size as say the 12/16 four guages and the 32 is a neat little shell still overseas or as they prefer across the pond.Shotguns were my game over forty years.

    Found this
    http://www.chuckhawks.com/410bore.htm

    I'll bow to you on every rifle pistol shell but the shottygun was my trade
    Now left only to be a turd in the forrest and the circle will be complete.Use me as I have used you

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    Well... I am not too old to learn. I am also not too old to still use math.

    With the following formula I have found that;
    12ga=.729" 16ga=.663" 20ga=.615" 28ga=.550" 36ga=.506" and 67.62ga=.410"

    I stand corrected. thanks Amigo.





    Further I would say that if there are 437 grains in an ounce and an ounce is 1/16th of a pound;

    A 12ga round ball will weigh 1.333 oz or 585.5 grains (16 oz/12=1.333*437=582.5 grains)
    A 20ga round ball will weigh .8 oz or 350 grains
    A 68ga round ball will weigh .235 oz or 103 grains About the equivalent of a 32 ACP slug. Where did I see that.
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



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    I remember about fifty or so years ago my dad had a 9mm shot gun. A Winchester single shot, a diminutive little gun that looked like a 22 at first glance. He had it and lots of brass shells that he reloaded once in a while. I shot it when I was about 3 I think. He used it to kill rats in the corn crib. It seems at one time there was an indoor shooting game where folks shot glass balls, like Christmas tree ornaments, that were hurled in the air. The 9mm shotgun was the tool of the trade. Who'd a thunk it?
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



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    I shot skeet in all 4 gauges for about 15 years pretty seriously and wasn't bad at it using a 4 barrel set Browning Superposed. I shot in the 390's fairly often and guess what gauge I missed the vast majority of the birds with? Yip, the .410 but then if you are on the bird it will break, the .410 just doesn't give you as much slop factor. My best gauge was always the 28 ga and it still is...love my 28's!!
    Somewhere along the way I have lost the ability to act politically correct. If you should find it, please feel free to keep it.

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    I've used a 410 in various guns seriously in the field for almost 40 years, game ranging from quail, doves and pheasants down below to ptarmigan and snowshoe hare up here. I've also dinked around a whole bunch with factory slug loads and buckshot handloads.

    Much as I love the guns and gauge, when it comes to a survival gun, I have to say not with my hiney on the line. Sounds like the guy has an interesting novelty, but he's more salesman than practical. Maybe he'd do better if he could find a different target market.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Murphy View Post
    I remember about fifty or so years ago my dad had a 9mm shot gun. A Winchester single shot, a diminutive little gun that looked like a 22 at first glance. He had it and lots of brass shells that he reloaded once in a while. I shot it when I was about 3 I think. He used it to kill rats in the corn crib. It seems at one time there was an indoor shooting game where folks shot glass balls, like Christmas tree ornaments, that were hurled in the air. The 9mm shotgun was the tool of the trade. Who'd a thunk it?
    When I was in jr high in OR, one of our neighbors had a mini shotgun like this. It was from Europe. His dad brought it back at the end of WWII. He told me it was from a shooting gallery at a carnival where they had flying targets as well as the standard chain belt moving targets. The chain belt targets were shot using a .22 short. I really wanted that gun, but the old man would not part with it. He had paper shells with low brass bases that looked like snubby .38 cases.

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