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Thread: 22LR vs. 22WMR vs. 22 Hornet vs. .410 Survival Gun

  1. #21
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    Wow. I could have SWORN that was a composite stock.

    I see what you mean about carrying survival gear elsewhere on your person. I have a Black'S Creek lumbar pack that I've essentially turned into a survival kit.

    When I talk of hollowing the stock, I'm thinking more about ammo somehow.

    The more I think about, talk about, this, the more clear it becomes that, while the M6 and AR-7 "look" cool, and obviously would do in a pinch, a Model 24 in 20 ga is a better choice, especially if one can make it into a "project gun," and get exactly what they're looking for.

  2. #22
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    which round to use. Well I have experiance with all three. The 22 LR will cleanly kill deer at a max of 50 yds with head shots. I disagree that the 22mag extends that range past 75. The hornet on the other hand does extend the range considerably, 125 yds. The Hornet will give 2600-2700 fps with 50 -55 grain bullets. That said it will also blowup a rabbit at 50 if you happen to hit the body. As others have aready stated the 22 LR is probably the best for survival and IMHO the 20 is sooo much better than 410 it not even worth considering as a survivl round ah unless that is what you have when you need it

  3. #23
    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    Yep the 20ga can do much more than the 67ga including take big stuff with slugs. Mod choke w/ 7 1/2's is about perfect for fixed choke. If you need tighter drop down to 6's or 4's and more open go to 8's problem solved.
    Now left only to be a turd in the forrest and the circle will be complete.Use me as I have used you

  4. #24

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    For me as soon as you add the word "Survival" to Firearm, it is a drastic shift from "Pot/dinner" Firearm. The pot/dinner firearms can be as simple as a .22 Chipmunk/Cricket or a S&W "Air weight" .22 LR. To me a Survival firearms has a much wider job description than a "Pot" Firearm.

    My favorite Pot Firearm is my S&W model 17 with 8 3/8" barrel. But it would fail as a survival firearm by my requirements. My favorite "Survival" Firearm must shoot 12 gauge flares, supply food, and stop fuzzy'things with claws. For that asignment I have a H&R 3 1/2" twelve gauge cut to 18" with the H&R "Survivor" forend and buttstock added. The buttstock holds fishing gear and firestarting and first-aid gear, and 12 ga. flares. The forend holds several "Agulla" Mini-shells that are 1 3/8" long (#9 shot) for food procurement.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AGL4now View Post
    My favorite Pot Firearm is my S&W model 17 with 8 3/8" barrel.

    Prior to starting this thread, I contemplated a .22 revolver.


    Quote Originally Posted by AGL4now View Post
    But it would fail as a survival firearm[...]and stop fuzzy'things with claws.
    I'm not very convinced that a 20 gauge wouldn't fail there, too, but I'm sure it's better than .22.

    BTW, I just finished reading on another forum site a discussion on firing flares from shotguns. The general consensus there matched what you assert, cut the barrels off ahead of the choke, otherwise, the flare will get jammed in the choke and burn the barrel. (Apparently, this is true even for IC chokes.) Someone there metnion something called "Dragons Breath," which is an incendiary shotshell that fires a shower of hot, glowing, sparks into the air for use a signaling device in a shotgun. (And if the pilot you're signaling doesn't see it, the local fire tower will see the forest fire you ignite.) They have them for both 12 and 20 ga., but they're unavailable for shipping to AK (and Florida oddly, which means I can't just have it shipped to a relative's and go get it.) I couldn't find anything on a 20 gauge flare, and the caliber/metric diameter doesn't match anything in production.

  6. #26

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    Just another thought to muddy the water. I now sometimes carry my S.S. 3" Barreled Taurus Judge, as a compromise. I keep the Winchester 3" .410 triple ought buck loads in three cylinders and Hornady "LEVERevolution" 45 Long Colt 225 Gr. in the other two cylinders. Then stick some 2 1/2" 410 #4 or #6's in my pocket for birds for dinner. But it is a real compromise, but one I will take if my dayhike is mostly open alpine. I would not hike up Colorado Creek with just that rig.

  7. #27
    Member agoyne's Avatar
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    Picked this Model 24F up on Gunbroker for $399. 22 hornet over 12 ga with red dot. I love it!
    Savage24.jpg

  8. #28
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    Composite stock? Or do my eyes deceive me AGAIN?

  9. #29
    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    20ga. almost400grs at 1,450 fps,it will stop fuzzy things if you do your part.
    http://www.midwayusa.com/product/756...-slug-box-of-5
    Now left only to be a turd in the forrest and the circle will be complete.Use me as I have used you

  10. #30
    Member hodgeman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FL2AK-Old Town View Post
    Composite stock? Or do my eyes deceive me AGAIN?
    My 30-30 over 12 had a composite stock.
    "I do not deal in hypotheticals. The world, as it is, is vexing enough..." Col. Stonehill, True Grit

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by hodgeman View Post
    My 30-30 over 12 had a composite stock.
    That's good to know. That means that there should be composite stock sets available aftermarket *somewhere.* I'm not sure what would be easier to work with, composite or wood, but I know the composite would be lighter. (I wonder if you hollowed out the entire stock and then filled it with that Coast Guard approved expanding foam, would the gun float?) I'm going to keep researching the 24 and possibly make one into a project gun, possibly over the winter, but that's probably a discussion for the gunsmithing forum.

    I really like the M6, but the 410 seems to be such an overwhelming drawback. I also like the AR-7, but the lack of a shotgun barrel makes it really no different than any other 22 rifle (other than the whole floating part). I also like the Ruger 10/22 take down, but I see it as somewhat akin to the AR-7 for this discussion. (Although if they could make that case watertight and buoyant...) The H&R guns don't seem to come in anything other than two barrel setups, other than the 45LC. I've got an email off to Savage, asking if they intend on making the newer Model 42 in 20 ga.

    I haven't yet decided on 22LR vs 22WMR, but I already have two other 22LR guns, so a third would mean I didn't have to buy and stockpile yet another caliber of ammo.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amigo Will View Post
    20ga. almost400grs at 1,450 fps,it will stop fuzzy things if you do your part.
    http://www.midwayusa.com/product/756...-slug-box-of-5
    What is the tightest choke in which one could safely shoot that shell? Can it be fired in pre 64 guns? That might be useful in my Winchester 24 SxS (Mod/Full) as well. Interesting that it's not the full length 3" shell.

  13. #33
    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    It will shoot in full choke guns.I believe that shell is for rifled barrels but their are plenty out there for smooth bores.I prefer mod choke for slugs but any will work.Dixie slugs makes some real stout loads for twenty gauge and even 28's
    Now left only to be a turd in the forrest and the circle will be complete.Use me as I have used you

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by FL2AK-Old Town View Post
    Composite stock? Or do my eyes deceive me AGAIN?
    Yeah, its composite. I'm glad it came that way, because if it didn't, I'd be buying em to put on there.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by redale View Post
    which round to use. Well I have experiance with all three. The 22 LR will cleanly kill deer at a max of 50 yds with head shots. I disagree that the 22mag extends that range past 75. The hornet on the other hand does extend the range considerably, 125 yds. The Hornet will give 2600-2700 fps with 50 -55 grain bullets. That said it will also blowup a rabbit at 50 if you happen to hit the body. As others have aready stated the 22 LR is probably the best for survival and IMHO the 20 is sooo much better than 410 it not even worth considering as a survivl round ah unless that is what you have when you need it
    Hornet is a great round and with a scope you can push 200 yds but that does not fit into my idea of a "survival gun" that is easy to carry and can do lots of things for you in the field. The 22 mag will certainly kill 50 yds farther than the .22 LR and that is also limited by your sights and eyes, but my point is that from a practical stand point you don't get enough extra performance from the Hornet over the .22 Mag in a cut off model 24 with iron sights to make it worthwhile...especially if you use store bought ammo. I can still hit center of mass with a set of iron sights at 300 yds on a man size target most of the time but hitting small game past 75 yds or so is not in the cards for me anymore. The 22 mag with fmj will not blow up small critters and will penetrate a large animal's skull...sometimes the little ones run a ways but if it is a good shot it will die pretty fast. Good expanding rounds would be my choice for fox or bigger, maybe up to 50 lbs or so and use head shots after that.

    Will is correct on the 20ga and I've become pretty fond of the Rem Express youth in 20 ga with a 21" barrel and a 2 shot mag extention. Throw in a Modified choke tube and a cylinder choke with a wrench and a variety of ammo and there is not much you can't do with it. With 1 1/4 ounce 3" shells they will kill just as good as any 12 ga with shot and the slugs are pretty effective too. I'm not a big buckshot fan but that is also an option. You carry a lighter gun with more ammo and pretty much have it all...with a shorter range than a 22 LR or Mag but a lot more firepower if needed. Depending upon where you are when you need to survive, 25 rounds or so should give you a lot of meat. If you want to extend your range with the slugs get a rifled barrel and shoot the shot shells thru it just like a cylinder choke barrel...good to maybe 35 yds or a little farther with heavy shot size and hope one hits a vital spot.

    Just another option to consider.
    Somewhere along the way I have lost the ability to act politically correct. If you should find it, please feel free to keep it.

  16. #36

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    The best "Survival" tool is a PLB. Nothing even comes close to a PLB.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by AGL4now View Post
    The best "Survival" tool is a PLB. Nothing even comes close to a PLB.
    Hard to argue with that. $280 at REI. Waiting for my next REI dividend and 20% off coupon; should get the price down to under $200.

    To paraphrase what someone else wrote in an older thread here, (and I can't recall the author or the thread, sorry) with a PLB, what would have been a 3 week fight to survive becomes an 8 hour wait for your ride home.

    http://www.rei.com/product/815753/acr-electronics-resqlink-406-gps-personal-locator-beacon



  18. #38
    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    Hopefully they are better than the Spot at least here in SE
    Now left only to be a turd in the forrest and the circle will be complete.Use me as I have used you

  19. #39

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    An other option, is the new RUGER 10/22 "Takedown".

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by AGL4now View Post
    An other option, is the new RUGER 10/22 "Takedown".
    Oh very much so. In fact, I believe I mentioned it earlier in this thread. It lacks the shotgun option, which makes it more of a competitor to the Henry AR-7 than the M6 or Savage 24, 42. I've never handled or fired either a 10/22 (or any of its variants) or the AR-7, but just going on Ruger, and the reputation of the 10/22 in general, it's probably a better gun. If they found a way to make that case watertight and buoyant, there would probably be almost no reason to buy an AR-7, other than price point and budget concerns.

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