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Thread: Another legal/moral question

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    Default Another legal/moral question

    First a little background and a few facts so you all have an idea of where I am coming from. I live in 14A. I am a certified bow hunter. While coming down my drive way this evening (my driveway is really long) I find a parked car and a few folks standing around. When I stopped to talk to them I find that they just shot a spike fork on my property (with a bow). I am pretty speechless at this point. It is obviously private property, marked as such, with a house and a shop, and the guy lives in the neighborhood. They didn't call to ask permission, and the guy tells me that he was trying to find my number to call me after he shot the moose. I think (or hope) we can all see the lack of morality in this situation. But my questions is, does anyone know an legalities that apply to this situation (other than the obvious trespassing)?

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    Member TWB's Avatar
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    Default Another legal/moral question

    Yep, taking of game on private property is not legal without permission.

    I know of a hunter who has been nailed for doing it on the native allotments off the Koyukuk.

    Call AST or ?
    We do not go to the green woods and crystal waters to rough it, we go to smooth it. We get it rough enough at home; in towns and cities; in shops, offices, stores, banks anywhere that we may be placed

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    Wow that sucks I call the troopers at a minimum...

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    Moderator LuJon's Avatar
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    Default Another legal/moral question

    Your property must be marked with a no trespassing sign of at least 144"sq at all likely means of access and include the contact information for the owner or their agent. Do you have your property so marked? If so then they have committed trespass. If not then they haven't. Despite what is taught in hunter Ed class it is the responsibility of the property owner to properly mark any private lands. I would tell them that I would call the police for littering if they left any guts on my property. We had a buddy kill a cow in my uncles back yard and were able to remove all waste 100% from the property.

    What was done is easily unethical but unless properly marked was probably not illegal. Personally I would just expect a clean yard and at least a 1/4 plus some blackstrap and a 6 pack of Alaskan Amber. Heck for a case of beer I would probably drag out the shop lights to help with the butchering should it go late!


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    Depends what kind of relationship you want with your neighbor in the future. I can't say I'd hassle with the Troopers- I probably give him the man to man "no-BS" talking to in the morning and just let it go at that- may be more effective and more productive to good relations in the future.

    If your property is marked "no hunting" then you could have him charged, not sure the Trooper would bother if not marked- illegal and chargeable are two different things sometimes. Similar story with Trespassing- not marked, no prior history they'll probably just give him a talking to anyway.
    "I do not deal in hypotheticals. The world, as it is, is vexing enough..." Col. Stonehill, True Grit

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    Quote Originally Posted by LuJon View Post
    yPersonally I would just expect a clean yard and at least a 1/4 plus some blackstrap and a 6 pack of Alaskan Amber. Heck for a case of beer I would probably drag out the shop lights to help with the butchering should it go late

    I'm a pretty enthusiastic hunter....I'd probably do it anyway without a beer bribe.
    "I do not deal in hypotheticals. The world, as it is, is vexing enough..." Col. Stonehill, True Grit

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    If my neighbor came to my land and hunted for food, I'd expect the mess to be delt with and some meat at the least. The talking too should be firm but courtious, and "The next time" should never happen. Im of thought that a land owner owns land, not wild animals, and permission should have been asked before the season even began.....

    Shuks, are you sure he didnt chase it t your property already wounded? Either way, its time to make or break a neigbor.
    If you can't Kill it with a 30-06, you should Hide.

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    Moderator bkmail's Avatar
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    Not seeing where your neighbor did anything illegal here, other than shoot a moose that you might have wanted to get a shot at.
    Not posted, he can walk across your place legally. Posted, different story.
    Ethically, he should have rang the doorbell. BUT, a moose is where you find 'em and he took the oppurtunity as it was presented to feed his family just as you would have. (It was spike/fork, so he was not "trophy hunting".)
    Sounds like you need to either post your land to prevent it from happening again or carry your bow in the truck in case you get the oppurtunity like your neighbor did.
    I have knocked on doors in the past and got permission to whack game in peoples property then I shared my bounty with the landowner. However, if no one was home and the moose was standing along the driveway and legal, I wouldn't think twice about sticking it.
    BK

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    If he shot it when it was on your property then it's trespassing regardless of whether it meets the legal requirement. I don't know if there is any regulation about hunting with a bow within a specific distance from a dwelling but that might be another aspect. What's done is done though and you either need to decide that you're okay with it or not and communicate that to whomever that requires to see to that.
    Science has a rich history of proving itself wrong.

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    Moderator bkmail's Avatar
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    Raingull,
    See LuJon's comment "Your property must be marked with a no trespassing sign of at least 144"sq at all likely means of access and include the contact information for the owner or their agent. Do you have your property so marked? If so then they have committed trespass. If not then they haven't"
    BK

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    Very good points... no trophy hunter, obviously knew he was pushing the limit, and hope he obliged you with some meat. Talk it out and ensure he understand your property line, Ensure it is marked and move on.

    Quote Originally Posted by bkmail View Post
    Not seeing where your neighbor did anything illegal here, other than shoot a moose that you might have wanted to get a shot at.
    Not posted, he can walk across your place legally. Posted, different story.
    Ethically, he should have rang the doorbell. BUT, a moose is where you find 'em and he took the oppurtunity as it was presented to feed his family just as you would have. (It was spike/fork, so he was not "trophy hunting".)
    Sounds like you need to either post your land to prevent it from happening again or carry your bow in the truck in case you get the oppurtunity like your neighbor did.
    I have knocked on doors in the past and got permission to whack game in peoples property then I shared my bounty with the landowner. However, if no one was home and the moose was standing along the driveway and legal, I wouldn't think twice about sticking it.
    BK
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    Default Another legal/moral question

    Quote Originally Posted by LuJon View Post
    Your property must be marked with a no trespassing sign of at least 144"sq at all likely means of access
    No kiddin! I had no idea. Time I start posting!
    We do not go to the green woods and crystal waters to rough it, we go to smooth it. We get it rough enough at home; in towns and cities; in shops, offices, stores, banks anywhere that we may be placed

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    Are we talking about a cabin on some acreage or someone's home? Granted, it's Palmer and properties can be large, wooded and several hundred yards between houses, but still, to hunt in Palmer proper one has to assume any animal shot will be or end up on private property.

    The shooter simply did not care one way or the other. That's just a guess but I'd lay money on it.

    Make the guy clean up the guts and gore and let it go.
    If cave men had been trophy hunters the Wooly Mammoth would be alive today

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    The big question for me is where was it actually shot? If it was shot on my property without permission then I have an issue. If it was shot somewhere else and it ran onto my property and died no big deal just clean up your mess.

    In other western states, you would/could get shot for hunting someone elses land without permission, let alone the moral issue.

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    I would blackmail a front quarter and one backstrap from him and let it slide.
    Born in Alaska: The boundary lines have fallen for me in pleasant places; surely I have a delightful inheritance. Psalm 16:6

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    Quote Originally Posted by LuJon View Post
    Personally I would just expect a clean yard and at least a 1/4 plus some blackstrap and a 6 pack of Alaskan Amber. Heck for a case of beer I would probably drag out the shop lights to help with the butchering should it go late!


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    Although I can understand that the op probably felt he may have had a chance at the bull when he got home. But that is not a given. That's pretty much how I feel too. Although I do have "Private Property" signs, I don't have no trespassing signs. As far as I'm concerned, if a guy sees a legal bull on my property and I'm not around, it's ok with me if he kills it. At least somebody is filling his freezer. I would just hope that other neighbors felt the same.

    I've NEVER liked "No Trespassing" signs on peoples houses or driveways. Does that mean the neighbor next store better not even consider knocking on your door to offer you a beer or introduce himself...???
    Sheep hunting...... the pain goes away, but the stupidity remains...!!!

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    For me the issue isn't about the moose. It's about trespass and letting an arrow fly on my property without my permission. Was it a wooded area? Could my kids have been around? Do I trust anyone to make important judgement calls about my property without my consent and direction? Well no of course I don't. I don't care what the technical trespass hunting law is it's still trespass in my book and depending on circumstances could be reckless endangerment. There could be lots of reasons I wouldn't want somebody letting loose an arrow on my property. Lots they might not see or know about that they could be endangering.
    Science has a rich history of proving itself wrong.

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    The way I was raised in Montana, I would have helped him cut the moose up and offered him a beer. I would only be upset if he didn't offer me some meat for my help.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank View Post
    The way I was raised in Montana, I would have helped him cut the moose up and offered him a beer. I would only be upset if he didn't offer me some meat for my help.
    BINGO...!!!
    Sheep hunting...... the pain goes away, but the stupidity remains...!!!

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    Thanks for all the thoughts guys. They did a good job of cleaning up. They actually just brought a truck over and hauled the entire thing out. I helped where I could. I guess I was just a little upset at first because I was a little blind sided by this dead moose on my property (that was shot on my property by the way). And when I really sit down to think about it, the only reason I was upset is because I wanted a chance at the moose (which i have seen a few times leading up to the season), but who am i to say I deserve more of chance at the moose than the next guy just because it happens to be standing on my property at the time.

    I chatted with the neighbor a bit, and it turns out it was a friend of his that shot the moose. The neighbor saw it and called his friend who he knew was a bow hunter. Now he knows I am a bow hunter and has assured me that I will be the first person he calls in the future if he sees a moose on either of our properties. I guess that goes to show that a friendly attitude can kick a little Karma your way and usually will get you farther than getting angry and raising a stink. Especially in your neighbor hood when your dealing with folks you may have to live next to for the rest of your life.

    P.S. I haven't seen any meat come my way yet. Maybe they are just going to process it up all nice for me before they deliver it

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