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Thread: Parnell Requests Upper Cook Inlet Fishery Disaster Declaration

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    Member Alaskanmutt's Avatar
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    Default Parnell Requests Upper Cook Inlet Fishery Disaster Declaration

    2000 Bayliner Ciera Express 2452
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    Knik arm streams are now closed to Coho fishing, with the exception of Eklutna. No kings, few silvers. Just about the perfect storm in the Valley.

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    Default Parnell Requests Upper Cook Inlet Fishery Disaster Declaration

    Does this mean guides will receive monetary aide?

    For instance, if a guide was booked for kings but hand to cancel, and in lieu I that he took that same party on say a guided trip for another species, would there be compensation.

    And if so, how would something like this be tracked?
    We do not go to the green woods and crystal waters to rough it, we go to smooth it. We get it rough enough at home; in towns and cities; in shops, offices, stores, banks anywhere that we may be placed

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    I don't agree with this. IMO it's pandering to a voting bloc. Whether it's sport or commercial and you're hitching a ride on a public resource there should be no guarantees for your income. If you want predictability and income go work for the government.

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    Default Parnell Requests Upper Cook Inlet Fishery Disaster Declaration

    Quote Originally Posted by penguin View Post
    If you want predictability and income go work for the government.
    Nope, no predictability their either
    We do not go to the green woods and crystal waters to rough it, we go to smooth it. We get it rough enough at home; in towns and cities; in shops, offices, stores, banks anywhere that we may be placed

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    Default Pandering..

    Way too much about the so called "subsistance" living while at the same time we'll hearing all the p&m about the high cost of importing food and supplies.

    Civilization developed agriculture and domestic animals milleniums ago to replace the feast and famines of subsistance living. Real subsistance living is a tough way to go - only the very strongest survive the ups and downs of the cyclic nature of the food stocks and only a relatively small population can be supported over a long period.

    I agree with the pandering comment - if those people want to live in the 21st century with all the benefits they need to figure out a way to contribute something back.

    Quote Originally Posted by penguin View Post
    I don't agree with this. IMO it's pandering to a voting bloc. Whether it's sport or commercial and you're hitching a ride on a public resource there should be no guarantees for your income. If you want predictability and income go work for the government.
    Living the urban lifestyle so I can pay my way and for my family's needs, and support my country. And you?
    ".. ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" JFK

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    I agree with the pandering comment - if those people want to live in the 21st century with all the benefits they need to figure out a way to contribute something back.[/QUOTE]

    So public money is going to be given by federal government to state of Alaska? Then given in some low cost fashion to sport guides and commercial set gillnetters? Both these sectors rely on me to buy a sport license so the state can count the fish so the guides and gillnetters can make money? This is more than pandering it is a bail-out, entitlement pure and simple that is too much a part of the 21st century. What a embarrassing joke. I guess some bankers will make money, if they give out low interest loans the fees the guides and gillnetters pay for the loans can be invested. Then if those investments made by the bankers go bad they'll use more public money to bailout the bankers. Now how much is being asked for, what's it gonna cost the public. Maybe these groups should form a union and pay into it so they have something to draw from in tough times.

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    Well stated - thanks!

    Subsistance today is a sick joke. "Living off the land" is really living off the hard work of others and asking others to contribute and sacrific so some can continue their fairy tale life style. This is the 21st century - not the 18th - the frontier is long settled and the era of opening up new frontiers for the benefit of the country is long past.


    Quote Originally Posted by Powerline View Post
    I agree with the pandering comment - if those people want to live in the 21st century with all the benefits they need to figure out a way to contribute something back.
    So public money is going to be given by federal government to state of Alaska? Then given in some low cost fashion to sport guides and commercial set gillnetters? Both these sectors rely on me to buy a sport license so the state can count the fish so the guides and gillnetters can make money? This is more than pandering it is a bail-out, entitlement pure and simple that is too much a part of the 21st century. What a embarrassing joke. I guess some bankers will make money, if they give out low interest loans the fees the guides and gillnetters pay for the loans can be invested. Then if those investments made by the bankers go bad they'll use more public money to bailout the bankers. Now how much is being asked for, what's it gonna cost the public. Maybe these groups should form a union and pay into it so they have something to draw from in tough times.[/QUOTE]
    Living the urban lifestyle so I can pay my way and for my family's needs, and support my country. And you?
    ".. ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" JFK

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    Whether a restaurant in post-Katrina New Orleans, a corn farmer in the drought-stricken Midwest, victims of regional fires or floods, or guides and gill-netters in Cook Inlet's fisheries, the idea behind Federal Disaster Relief is a way for the nation as a whole to help victims of natural disasters. The Federal Government has no money except that which it takes in by way of taxation—the money that runs the government is our money, and the disaster relief extended to victims of unforeseen events is our money. We are, as it were, extending aid to our neighbors in need.

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    The problem is that it is not the function of the federal government to bail everyone out that has a bad day! Fishing, like most occupations, has its ups and downs - one has to prepare and save during the good times for the bad times that will surely follow.

    But more important - helping our neighbors out is a function of private citizens and charity - not the government. The individual making the contribution should determine who really needs the help and who their money goes to - not the governement.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
    Whether a restaurant in post-Katrina New Orleans, a corn farmer in the drought-stricken Midwest, victims of regional fires or floods, or guides and gill-netters in Cook Inlet's fisheries, the idea behind Federal Disaster Relief is a way for the nation as a whole to help victims of natural disasters. The Federal Government has no money except that which it takes in by way of taxation—the money that runs the government is our money, and the disaster relief extended to victims of unforeseen events is our money. We are, as it were, extending aid to our neighbors in need.
    Living the urban lifestyle so I can pay my way and for my family's needs, and support my country. And you?
    ".. ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" JFK

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
    Whether a restaurant in post-Katrina New Orleans, a corn farmer in the drought-stricken Midwest, victims of regional fires or floods, or guides and gill-netters in Cook Inlet's fisheries, the idea behind Federal Disaster Relief is a way for the nation as a whole to help victims of natural disasters. The Federal Government has no money except that which it takes in by way of taxation—the money that runs the government is our money, and the disaster relief extended to victims of unforeseen events is our money. We are, as it were, extending aid to our neighbors in need.
    I don't see it, the guides especially. So my neighbor starts a business and it breaks even or fails. What's he get for aid?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
    Whether a restaurant in post-Katrina New Orleans, a corn farmer in the drought-stricken Midwest, victims of regional fires or floods, or guides and gill-netters in Cook Inlet's fisheries, the idea behind Federal Disaster Relief is a way for the nation as a whole to help victims of natural disasters. The Federal Government has no money except that which it takes in by way of taxation—the money that runs the government is our money, and the disaster relief extended to victims of unforeseen events is our money. We are, as it were, extending aid to our neighbors in need.
    The more of our money the feds take, the more regulations they place upon the forms our aid can take, the less able we as citizens are to extend our hands to our neighbors. The government decides who the haves are vs the have nots.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Powerline View Post
    I don't see it, the guides especially. So my neighbor starts a business and it breaks even or fails. What's he get for aid?
    Federal Disaster Relief funds are not available for bad business decisions, only for help when folks become victims of a natural disaster.

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    All very true, willfphish, but what are our alternatives in the meantime while fellow Americans are suffering economic devastation from natural disasters beyond their control? Whether or not disaster relief is properly a function of the Federal Government is a political question and outside the parameters of allowable discussion on these fora.

    The issue before us is simply that the Governor has requested Federal Relief funds for victims of a natural disaster. Bureaucrats and politicians will decide whether or not Federal funds are released.

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    When does an economic hardship become a disaster? I've had to change jobs, pack up, and move several times in my career when things outside my control changed drastically. Stuff happens- good and bad- you have to be prepared for change - nothing good or bad lasts forever.

    Remember the massive layoffs in the oil industry here in the mid 80s? People lost their jobs and homes and many had to move out of state. The economy tanked for years. I don't recall a disaster ever being called for that unhappy circumstance.

    But right now evreything is a disaster - people standing around waiting for a handout rather than rolling up their sleeves and getting to work. In some cases that work maybe somewhere else doing something different.


    Quote Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
    All very true, willfphish, but what are our alternatives in the meantime while fellow Americans are suffering economic devastation from natural disasters beyond their control? Whether or not disaster relief is properly a function of the Federal Government is a political question and outside the parameters of allowable discussion on these fora.

    The issue before us is simply that the Governor has requested Federal Relief funds for victims of a natural disaster. Bureaucrats and politicians will decide whether or not Federal funds are released
    .
    Living the urban lifestyle so I can pay my way and for my family's needs, and support my country. And you?
    ".. ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" JFK

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
    All very true, willfphish, but what are our alternatives in the meantime while fellow Americans are suffering economic devastation from natural disasters beyond their control? Whether or not disaster relief is properly a function of the Federal Government is a political question and outside the parameters of allowable discussion on these fora.

    The issue before us is simply that the Governor has requested Federal Relief funds for victims of a natural disaster. Bureaucrats and politicians will decide whether or not Federal funds are released.
    How is a low Kenai king salmon run coming in late a natural disaster?? I mean, the run didn't crash (~21k to the sonar), it simply was low, just like the past 3 years. In fact, I think the DIDSON sonar estimates from 2010-2012 are very similar. This year however, because of a late arriving run, both the sport and ESSN commercial fisheries were limited in their oppurtunity. The red salmon run was good. How is this a natural disaster other than people who chose to operate in these businesses were curtailed? Why weren't the previous 3 years declared a "natural disaster?" Was it because those same fisherpeople got to harvest kings on crappy runs when they shouldn't have in the first place? I'm beside myself on this one I guess. Do unguided anglers, especially residents get their gas money back from the trips they expended trying to catch a king salmon before it closed?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Papi View Post
    How is a low Kenai king salmon run coming in late a natural disaster?? I mean, the run didn't crash (~21k to the sonar), it simply was low, just like the past 3 years. In fact, I think the DIDSON sonar estimates from 2010-2012 are very similar. This year however, because of a late arriving run, both the sport and ESSN commercial fisheries were limited in their oppurtunity. The red salmon run was good. How is this a natural disaster other than people who chose to operate in these businesses were curtailed? Why weren't the previous 3 years declared a "natural disaster?" Was it because those same fisherpeople got to harvest kings on crappy runs when they shouldn't have in the first place? I'm beside myself on this one I guess. Do unguided anglers, especially residents get their gas money back from the trips they expended trying to catch a king salmon before it closed?
    Great points I would like my pillar launch fees refunded. I was talking to a friend about this and we equaled it to a deer or elk hunting guide out western United States wanting refunds from his or her state because herds were down because of winter kill so their hunters did not get a full season or ab animal. Th
    Don't we have better things to spend federal tax money on?

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    This is a good subject for discussion and debate. But not a new one. The issue of who does or does not get Federal disaster funds has been an on-going debate for years. It irks me that some folks in flood-prone areas of the country (Lower Mississippi Valley) continue to re-build in floodplains, only to collect Federal disaster funds every few years when a flood comes through. It's a floodplain for goodness sake!? It's supposed to flood. People aren't supposed to build there. But our tax dollars keep flowing, thanks to the Congressional delegation from those areas. In my view, the Feds should pay them off once, and then stop. If they choose to re-build in a floodplain, it's their risk, not the taxpayers.

    I don't blame Gov P. for applying for Federal disaster funds for Alaska, given the low returns of Chinook, and perhaps coho, state-wide. It shows that he is supporting his constituents. Or elbowing his way into the Federal pig-pile, depending on your point of view. Just because the State of Alaska applies for these funds doesn't mean they will get them. As Marcus points out, the decision of who gets the funds will be decided by the Federal bureaucrats (likely at FEMA) based on the rules set up by Congress. Given that FEMA has not had alot of disasters lately (not many hurricanes, tornados, or floods this year) and we're coming to the end of the fiscal year (Sept 30), there might be some Federal funds laying around that FEMA could distribute to the folks in the Great Land. There'is a really bad drought in the Midwest this year, but most of those losses are covered by crop insurance (subsidized by, you guessed it, the Federal government). It's a politically good move by Gov P, with no downside.

    I will disagree with Marcus in that this BB is the perfect place to debate Federal politics and policies, especially when they effect people and resources in the Great Land.

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    Here's another recent piece from NPR (8/23/12) that puts a finer point on my earlier post.

    http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2012/...mers-insurance

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cohoangler View Post
    I will disagree with Marcus in that this BB is the perfect place to debate Federal politics and policies, especially when they effect people and resources in the Great Land.

    These fora may well be the perfect place to debate and discuss Federal policy—I don't disagree. What I said was that these fora do not allow political or religious discussion/debate.

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