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Thread: 1993 Bayliner 2859 "Pure Country"

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    Member greg01alaska's Avatar
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    Default 1993 Bayliner 2859 "Pure Country"

    I am Looking to upsize current boat (1993 Bayliner 2452 Trophy) and found this one on Craigs list from Cordova. Is there anyone who can offer information/advice about this boat in particular?

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    Member Alaskanmutt's Avatar
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    Don't know about the boat but.....
    2859's get like 1.5 miles per gallon
    Youneed a oversized placard, rotating light and permits to tow them
    And you cannot tow them on certain days like holidays.

    That is why I went with the 2452 instead.

    If it wasn't for those points the wife would have demanded I buy the bigger one.
    2000 Bayliner Ciera Express 2452
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    You don't need the rotating light any more and you can tow on the holidays now, but still need a permit and the fuel mileage would be the same.
    2007 Kingfisher 2825 - Stor Fisk

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    Member tabmarine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greg01alaska View Post
    I am Looking to upsize current boat (1993 Bayliner 2452 Trophy) and found this one on Craigs list from Cordova. Is there anyone who can offer information/advice about this boat in particular?
    Bayliner is one of the biggest pieces of crap on the water today. Years ago I ran a Sandwich Shop in North Florida
    just down the street fron a Bayliner Factory......The workers from there had nothing good to say about those
    boats. Plenty of other much better options out there
    If we all agreed....this would be no fun

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    Check out Bayliner Owner's Club on the web if you haven't. Tons of info there. Great site and folks seem to be friendly and helpful there. I'm sure there are posts already on their site that will give you a run down on the pros and cons of that model and maybe even have some info on that specific boat.

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    I have a 2858 with 7.4 MPI and I get around 1.5 mpg. With 912 hrs on the original engine it's probably going to need a rebuild before to long but looks like a decent boat for the price.

    Yes, Bayliner is not the best boat out there but they work good and nobody else makes a similar design. I like the layout of my 2858 and only Bayliner makes anything like it.

    Most boats Bayliner or not use the same couple of power units. Bayliner only makes the boat not the power unit and the power unit is the part that fails.

    It looks like a good boat just expect a few problems and it's been on the market for a while so you can probably get a good buy on it.

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    I agree with HuntinAK. I've had my 1993 Bayliner 2452 since 2001. The only problems I've had are the occasional ones with the engine, but it's the same engine that many manufacturers use. The fit and finish on a Bayliner is not as good as many other brands, but that's reflected in the price of the boat. I had someone the other day ask if my boat was new. Like any boat, keep up on the maintenance and it will last a long time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tabmarine View Post
    Bayliner is one of the biggest pieces of crap on the water today. Years ago I ran a Sandwich Shop in North Florida
    just down the street fron a Bayliner Factory......The workers from there had nothing good to say about those
    boats. Plenty of other much better options out there

    Wow, thats pretty amazing. You're in florida posting on an Alaska powerboat forum. Telling us in Alaska that our boats are junk. You are clearly an expert on boating in Alaska, and what boats work for our enviroment.

    Well, pardner you might try coming to Alaska and walking the dock in Whittier, Seward or Valdez. If you did that you would find that Bayliner is far and away the most popular cabin cruiser moored in the harbor.

    Why...

    Because they are an excellent boat to take your family out for a cruise, or a fishing trip.
    They are not the fanciest boats on the water.
    They are not even the best boats for pure fishing.
    What they are is a great all around boat that can function well no matter what you ask of them

    So, why not come to Alaska and see for yourself. Hire a charter and go fishing. You'll probably either see us in our Bayliner, or you'll see happy families fishing out in the gulf of Alaska in one of the six Bayliners I've owned over the years. Anybody thats been around Whittier long will recognize them. "American Dream 1", American Dream2", "Taz", "Nauti-Gal", "Sasha Mae", "Lisas Way"

    Then when you want to really get serious, ask someone to show you the large Bayliner motoryachts. They are on equal class with any of the large yacht manufacturers.

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    Member tabmarine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevins View Post
    Wow, thats pretty amazing. You're in florida posting on an Alaska powerboat forum. Telling us in Alaska that our boats are junk. You are clearly an expert on boating in Alaska, and what boats work for our enviroment.

    Well, pardner you might try coming to Alaska and walking the dock in Whittier, Seward or Valdez. If you did that you would find that Bayliner is far and away the most popular cabin cruiser moored in the harb
    Why...

    Because they are an excellent boat to take your family out for a cruise, or a fishing trip.
    They are not the fanciest boats on the water.
    They are not even the best boats for pure fishing.
    What they are is a great all around boat that can function well no matter what you ask of them

    So, why not come to Alaska and see for yourself. Hire a charter and go fishing. You'll probably either see us in our Bayliner, or you'll see happy families fishing out in the gulf of Alaska in one of the six Bayliners I've owned over the years. Anybody thats been around Whittier long will recognize them. "American Dream 1", American Dream2", "Taz", "Nauti-Gal", "Sasha Mae", "Lisas Way"

    Then when you want to really get serious, ask someone to show you the large Bayliner motoryachts. They are on equal class with any of the large yacht manufacturers.
    That is your opinion and you are entitled to it. I work in the yachting industry and have lived on a boat for almost 22 years.
    If you repeated any of your last statement to anyone in the industry they would laugh out load. These boats are made on
    an assemmbly line are are built as cheaply and quickly as possible and the price reflects that. If you are happy then I am too.

    Th each his own. The fact is that they are on the very bottom on the list of quality boat mfrs.
    If we all agreed....this would be no fun

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    Quote Originally Posted by tabmarine View Post
    That is your opinion and you are entitled to it. I work in the yachting industry and have lived on a boat for almost 22 years.
    If you repeated any of your last statement to anyone in the industry they would laugh out load. These boats are made on
    an assemmbly line are are built as cheaply and quickly as possible and the price reflects that. If you are happy then I am too.

    Th each his own. The fact is that they are on the very bottom on the list of quality boat mfrs.
    OK, we are each entitled to our own opinion, I respect that. Since you entered this conversation stating your opinion, I'd like you to now support it.

    If you think Bayliner boats are junk, specifically the cabin cruisers since this thread is about a model 2859 then please indicate exactly why. Have you ever been on a bayliner 2859? You indicate that you are in the marine industry. Are you a certified marine surveyor? Are you an engineer? Have you ever actually yourself stepped foot on a Bayliner cabin cruiser?

    Please tell me just exactly what you have seen, in your personal observations or professional experience that would lead you to the conclusion that Bayliner Cabin Cruisers are junk. Please be specific and describe to me precisely what you have seen with your own eyes. If you are a surveyor or marine professional, please post links to surveys you've performed (omitting private information of course) showing sub par construction or any other information to support your opinion.

    Oh, and a little bit of information about the bayliner 2859. That particular boat had a production run from 1993 to 2009. Thats 16 years of continous production. The model was pulled from the bayliner lineup when sales slumped during the recession that we've yet to come out of today. It was simply too expensive for the average person to afford anymore and was not selling. Out the door prices were approaching $100,000, equipped for service. There are allot of great boat names that have went under completely during the last few years, so the Bayliner 2859 is in good company.

    Before you reply be forewarned. I am an expert on Bayliner cabin cruisers, and the model 2859 in particular. I have owned two Bayliner 2859 boats. I have been over every inch, in every hidden place. I have pulled cables, hoses, installed tanks, etc... I have drilled so many holes in Bayliners that I can pretty much tell you how thick the hull and decks are, and how they are made. So when you coment about Bayliner cabin cruisers you'll really need to be specific because I'm going to respond from a point of personal direct, hands on knowledge.

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    Moderator bkmail's Avatar
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    Tabmarine,
    Please don't tell the fish that I use a bayliner explorer, 'cause they come over the side same as a $200k yacht parked next to me.
    We love our boat and it's affordable to run/operate. She will handle rougher weather than I want to be in (and have been in).
    While I agree they are not the best/nicest boats on the water, they still get you out fishing/hunting/exploring PWS right along side the guy that spent a fortune on his boat. For that, mine is priceless!!
    BK

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    I am sorry to you loyal Bayliner owners... meant no harm and just stating an opinion.
    Enjoy you boats and I'll see you in another post sometime.
    If we all agreed....this would be no fun

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    So to hijack...or hijack it back...but I'd like to get back to the original post about the 2859. I've been eyeing these for a couple years now as my family has expanded since we bought our current boat. We need more room for our two boys. Anyway, what can folks tell me about the boats, various ower options, etc. One particular question I have is what about the Bravo III vs the Bravo II?

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    Quote Originally Posted by patrickL View Post
    So to hijack...or hijack it back...but I'd like to get back to the original post about the 2859. I've been eyeing these for a couple years now as my family has expanded since we bought our current boat. We need more room for our two boys. Anyway, what can folks tell me about the boats, various ower options, etc. One particular question I have is what about the Bravo III vs the Bravo II?
    The 2859 had several power options, although remember that many of the older boats have been repowered.

    Here's that they came with and what I've seen:

    Carburated 350. My first 2859 had one of these. This engine is just too small power wise for the boat. You'll probably not find one of these still in the 2858, as they are not long lived in this application.

    7.4L This is the most popular of the stock engines. The 7.4L is a work horse. Great engine for this boat. Measured on plane fuel economy of around 1.0 NMPG with a full loadout and skiff. Cruise speed up on plane properly propped and running at 3800 RPM is around 21 KTS

    Mercruiser diesel. The stock offering was just too small. The boat would bare get up on plane with a light loadout. These boats have mostely been repowered.

    carburated 383 stroker 315 HP. I repowered a 2859 with a 383 once. This was a very good engine choice if you want fuel economy. I measured 1.3 to 1.7 NMPG up on plane. Cruise speed with a properly propped boat and full loadout was about 18 KT at 3800 RPM.

    496 Mercruiser 375HP. I repowered my last 2859 to make the ultimate performance PWS fishing/family machine. Sold the boat last fall when I bought a larger bayliner. This is the performance package that all others are measured by. Honest 27 KT cruise at 3800 RPM. 1.0 NMPG fully loaded. Up on plane instantly. This is a flat great powerplant for this boat. I sold this boat to a non US citizen here in Alaska for a couple year tour with an oil company. If you see this boat come up for sale buy it.

    For outdrives I have consulted directly with Mercruiser regarding this during my repowers. The bravo 2 is the correct outdrive to use. Mercruiser specifically recommended against the Bravo3 because of the 10K lb leave the dock weight of the 2859.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kevins View Post
    The 2859 had several power options, although remember that many of the older boats have been repowered.

    Here's that they came with and what I've seen:

    Carburated 350. My first 2859 had one of these. This engine is just too small power wise for the boat. You'll probably not find one of these still in the 2858, as they are not long lived in this application.

    7.4L This is the most popular of the stock engines. The 7.4L is a work horse. Great engine for this boat. Measured on plane fuel economy of around 1.0 NMPG with a full loadout and skiff. Cruise speed up on plane properly propped and running at 3800 RPM is around 21 KTS

    Mercruiser diesel. The stock offering was just too small. The boat would bare get up on plane with a light loadout. These boats have mostely been repowered.

    carburated 383 stroker 315 HP. I repowered a 2859 with a 383 once. This was a very good engine choice if you want fuel economy. I measured 1.3 to 1.7 NMPG up on plane. Cruise speed with a properly propped boat and full loadout was about 18 KT at 3800 RPM.

    496 Mercruiser 375HP. I repowered my last 2859 to make the ultimate performance PWS fishing/family machine. Sold the boat last fall when I bought a larger bayliner. This is the performance package that all others are measured by. Honest 27 KT cruise at 3800 RPM. 1.0 NMPG fully loaded. Up on plane instantly. This is a flat great powerplant for this boat. I sold this boat to a non US citizen here in Alaska for a couple year tour with an oil company. If you see this boat come up for sale buy it.

    For outdrives I have consulted directly with Mercruiser regarding this during my repowers. The bravo 2 is the correct outdrive to use. Mercruiser specifically recommended against the Bravo3 because of the 10K lb leave the dock weight of the 2859.
    Oh, to add a little to the above...


    350 mag MPI In later years after the supply of 7.4L engines was used up Bayliner switched to the 350 mag MPI. I have not personally tested this engine package but the people I have talked to seem to like it.

    Volvo 300HP diesel. I've seen two 2859's with this engine package. One of them had a hull extension/swim step. The owners of both of them seemd to really like that power package. They reported significantly improved fuel economy, but I don't remember the exact numbers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kevins View Post
    Oh, to add a little to the above...


    350 mag MPI In later years after the supply of 7.4L engines was used up Bayliner switched to the 350 mag MPI. I have not personally tested this engine package but the people I have talked to seem to like it.

    Volvo 300HP diesel. I've seen two 2859's with this engine package. One of them had a hull extension/swim step. The owners of both of them seemd to really like that power package. They reported significantly improved fuel economy, but I don't remember the exact numbers.

    And to add a bit more...

    I assume you are talking about a D4 Volvo with a DPH drive. If you can find one of these conversions done, it is certainly worth paying a premium for. If you are considering doing one of these conversions, I don't expect that it would be anywhere near cost effective. Start out at pricing the drive and motor, and you will see what I mean.

    The biggest thing I see that is a problem with Bayliners is all of the flack you will get from Bayliner haters. The positive spin from this is that because so many people dismiss them out of hand, they are a great value for what you get.
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    Quote Originally Posted by patrickL View Post
    So to hijack...or hijack it back...but I'd like to get back to the original post about the 2859. I've been eyeing these for a couple years now as my family has expanded since we bought our current boat. We need more room for our two boys. Anyway, what can folks tell me about the boats, various ower options, etc. One particular question I have is what about the Bravo III vs the Bravo II?
    I have a nice one with a new 496 and drive in my side yard if you are interested in looking at the layout...home after 6 most evenings. BTW, it`s for sale. Lots of power and is very comfortable for 4-5 people on extended trips. We were using it in this video this spring...



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    Quote Originally Posted by AK2AZ View Post
    I have a nice one with a new 496 and drive in my side yard if you are interested in looking at the layout...home after 6 most evenings. BTW, it`s for sale. Lots of power and is very comfortable for 4-5 people on extended trips. We were using it in this video this spring...

    Did you go with a Mercruiser engine, or did you go with a crate engine from one of the many great sources?

    On ours we went with a Mercruiser engine, installed by the Bayliner dealer (burkshore) in Big Lake. We also sprung for a new B2 drive.

    We settled with a 20" stainless three blade prop. We could have went with a 21 or even a 22" prop and still made WOT but we carried an extra 100 gallons of fuel in aux tanks so we were carrying a pretty heavy loadout.

    With the extra fuel we had the range to go from Whittier to Seal Rocks in the gulf, back in to Zycoff, and Back to Seal Rocks with no worries of running out of fuel. alternativly we could go from Whittier to Cape Clear just as easily.

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    Member greg01alaska's Avatar
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    I want to thank everyone for their imput, this has been an enlightening discussion. The The Hull Truth Boating and Fishing Forum is another great resource for boat information, as is the Bayliner owners forum. My sweetheart and I have thoroughly enjoyed our 2452 trophy, ( boated a 68" butt last week in it. Shh, don't tell tabmarine ) It has served us well with access to PWS and all that it has to offer. I agree that there are advantages to maintaining a smaller boat, but there are restrictions on weight capacity, fuel capacity, occupant capacity, etc. So here's another question pertaining to the 2859. What should be a reasonable 'premium' to pay for one that has an upgrade to a volvo diesel?

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    I have a couple of friends with 2859s and they are awesome. One has a 454 bravo 2, and the other had a 300 yanmar (slow pig) and was repowered with an FNM diesel. The FNM diesel has a bravo III and has had issues (not the bravo III). KEVINS had it right, the boat is heavy and causes powering issues (no fault of bayliner, but of mis-matching with power packages). The FNM has had 2 different FNM engines and 2 turbos. They installed a pyrometer which helped. The boat was a 16-18knot boat with the diesels, now they are going with an even larger FNM motor and speed should be up. The boat really is at home doing 20+ knots, that 15-19 knot range is really taxing on the motor.

    Quality wise the boats are awesome and stand up well for our waters. My father-in-law is also a marine surveyor and does not like Bayliners, but I too questions that because of their predominance in Alaskan waters for 35 years. AND of all the bayliners for me the 2859 is one of the greatest.

    Sobie2

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