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Thread: No Silvers for us!

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    Default No Silvers for us!

    Hauled some frieght from Deshka landing to Alexander Creek yesterday and took some time to moniter the F&G fishwheels on the way there and back. Saw five fish total, all Pinks and all small. No seals at the normal places (mouth of Yetna and Five fingers).

    The creek is dead for silvers, small ones with lots of net marks. Now dont get me wrong this isnt a lets get rid of commercial fishing rant. Everyones hollering for thier fair share, Comm guys and sport fisherman. I myself support the subsistance guy the most. I see everyone is concerned for the survival of their industry. I dont have to worry about that anymore. The lodges at Alexander have been closed for five years now. When I moved here there were around 40 year round residents. Now there are eleven. At first I thought what killed this creek was over fishing by sportfisherman, the lodges and guides, and the Europeans. Dont get me wrong I still feel that is true but now I am watching what is happening to our fisheries wverywhere and it is alarming. Are we going to watch our fisheries disappear?

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    The first thing to remember and never forget: it is absolutely not the comm guys fault - never was and never will be anywhere anytime - they are completely blameless and "live in harmony with the fish". If you don't believe this - just ask them!

    Nor it is the fault of the guides and lodges - don't they carefully monitor the fishing only take a small number of fishermen back to the favorite sports and cut back when runs are low? Nope- can't be the guides either - just ask them it must be something else!

    So there you have it - its clearly the fault of the Anchorage and MatSu sport fishermen! I must be at blame myself - I remember catching a few fish in the years when the runs were good.

    So what are we gonna do? The only thing I can see to do is shut everything down for 5 or 10 years and see what happens. We can all share the suffering but for me its worth it in the long term. And things are so bad - they can't get much worse anyway.


    Quote Originally Posted by alexander View Post
    Hauled some frieght from Deshka landing to Alexander Creek yesterday and took some time to moniter the F&G fishwheels on the way there and back. Saw five fish total, all Pinks and all small. No seals at the normal places (mouth of Yetna and Five fingers).

    The creek is dead for silvers, small ones with lots of net marks. Now dont get me wrong this isnt a lets get rid of commercial fishing rant. Everyones hollering for thier fair share, Comm guys and sport fisherman. I myself support the subsistance guy the most. I see everyone is concerned for the survival of their industry. I dont have to worry about that anymore. The lodges at Alexander have been closed for five years now. When I moved here there were around 40 year round residents. Now there are eleven. At first I thought what killed this creek was over fishing by sportfisherman, the lodges and guides, and the Europeans. Dont get me wrong I still feel that is true but now I am watching what is happening to our fisheries wverywhere and it is alarming. Are we going to watch our fisheries disappear?
    Living the urban lifestyle so I can pay my way and for my family's needs, and support my country. And you?
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    Yep, shut it down for everyone! It would be the only fair thing to do if your first concern is the resource! I used to look at fishing just like farming, some good years, some bad years, Bottom line is the way this state is managing our resources is down right insane!

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    Commercial fishing really hasn't changed that much in 60 years other than it is MORE regulated now than ever before. Even when comm fishers were at the height of their unregulated glory, all species of salmon were doing well. Here's food for thought: in the 1960s to the contemporary period, two factors have entered the picture in force: heavy sport fishing (especially guided sport fishing), and pike. Hmmm... even with the comm guys heavily regulated compared to early days, the salmon numbers are going down. Why?

    I refuse to blame any one group. I believe personally it is a high seas issue; Possibly a climatic issue; possibly an environmental issue (since the king and silver stocks may enter highly polluted areas near Siberia and Japan) I also believe there will have to be even more cuts on the part of all users, maybe even a moratorium. But to infer that it is the fault of the comm fishers is historically unsupportable. Remember, when you point the finger, there are always three others pointing back at you.

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    Remember, when you point the finger, there are always three others pointing back at you.[/QUOTE]

    Cant point your finger at me! I havnt got to fish where I live for five years! I agree whole heartedly with you Sayak. For years I have watched sport fisherman go hog wild on the Kings here at Alexander. Rarely would there be any enforcment present and we would have the Europeons staying here for two weeks at a time. No one needs two weeks to catch five Kings. I've never been a Comm fisherman and know nothing about it other than when the driftnet fleet is out there we have no silvers. Used to be I wouldnt bother fishing on on Mondays because of the openings but there out there every day now so no silvers for me!

    I dont think the trawlers do us any favors but once again I havn't done that either. I fish because I live off the land for the most part. I hunt my moose every winter and we grow our own vegtables. We live off the grid because we like the lifestyle and we make our own way in life. Just gets harder and harder to do now a days. My neighbor Carl Thiele has lived on the creek since 1935, Man I bet he's seen some changes! To be totaly honest sports fishing does put a lot of direct pressure on the rivers, not to mention all the **** jet boats tearing up the creek beds up north. There is a lot more seals in recent years and yes there is the Pike. Since F&G has been netting and because of no fishing there are more Kings. Another thing I have notice is the trout and Grayling are killer in the fall.

    I like you think that in order to save our resources we are all going to have to some sacrificing. I know I have been doing my part wether I want to or not. It's time to see other's do so also, dont you think?

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    Quote Originally Posted by alexander View Post
    Yep, shut it down for everyone! It would be the only fair thing to do if your first concern is the resource! I used to look at fishing just like farming, some good years, some bad years, Bottom line is the way this state is managing our resources is down right insane!
    Libralizing the fisheries when they are abundant and restricting them when they are poor. Yeah, totally insane management.

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    Quote Originally Posted by commfish View Post
    Libralizing the fisheries when they are abundant and restricting them when they are poor. Yeah, totally insane management.
    Commfish, I suppose what I mean by that is in my experience and on this creek I have seen mis-management. When our escapement went from over 5,000 Kings to 2,200, our proposals to cut it to a weekend fishery was met with deaf ears. It always seems to me anyway to be boom or bust. When it is decimated shut it down, if theres anything there keep fishing. And I also feel that the way our fisheries are really managed are political not so much to protect the resources, Sorry but sure seems like it!

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ID:	62131This is another reason for low fish counts. There were at least a couple hundred seals at the mouth of the Susitna yesterday. But still since they have the fleet out there everyday we have no Silvers. Still no fish in the fishwheels and no fish in the creek! Hmmmmmmm?

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    To tag onto Sayaks historic perspective, they also shot a lot of seals back in the 60's. More food for thought.
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    Yep, Carl Thiel who has lived here since 1938 tells about the bounty they used to have on them. He has spent a lifetime out there and made a pretty good living at it! Of course they are protected now too!

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    Wink EXPOSED! . . . why the runs are failing . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by sayak View Post
    . . I believe personally it is a high seas issue; Possibly a climatic issue; possibly an environmental issue (since the king and silver stocks may enter highly polluted areas near Siberia and Japan) . .
    None of the above.

    The fish just got sick of being played with by catch-and-release and are refusing to come back for more.

    The Native people warned us . . .

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    Marcus, there are only 11 residents on our creek. We dont have any lodges and we dont play catch and realease. Subsitance is the name of the game! But the bright side of no fish is some of the weekenders are spooling it up for the season and this very day I am pulling their boats. So at least I am making a buck or two!

    Next year Marcus I think you should talk the powers to be into maybe three days a week of Comm fishing instead of seven days a week and we will see if we get any fish!

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    Quote Originally Posted by alexander View Post
    Marcus, there are only 11 residents on our creek. We dont have any lodges and we dont play catch and realease. Subsitance is the name of the game! But the bright side of no fish is some of the weekenders are spooling it up for the season and this very day I am pulling their boats. So at least I am making a buck or two!

    Next year Marcus I think you should talk the powers to be into maybe three days a week of Comm fishing instead of seven days a week and we will see if we get any fish!
    alexander, thanks . . my post was obviously spoken tongue-in-cheek. That said, I'm at a total loss in trying to understand how you can lay the blame for poor coho returns on Cook Inlet's gill-net industry.

    Did you read sayak's post? If things have rocked along satisfactorily for the last 60 years, how in the name of all that's rational can folks all of a sudden blame the commercial fishermen who have been here all along?

    What am I missing . . .

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    What your missing Marcus is usaully there are a couple of openings a week, not everyday. That is why we have no fish. If you'll read my earlier post I agreed ith sayak 100% that sport fishing on our creek was the main reason for King Salmon declines. I've seen it all here, Europeons used to spend two weeks here catching five fish. That meant catch a fish and change you clothes and go catch another one, then later on since the lodges they stayed in were convenently upstream they would fish there. THe guides for the most part were not much better. Frankly exept for the fact that I would like to stock up on some fish for winter I hope this creek never opens again! It is soooooo much more peacful and serene. I would be glad if there was a happy medium but then again thats life. If it gets to bad I guess I'll get me a net someday!

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    While were at it Marcus, you seem to be up on all things fishing, If there are that many Seals at the mouth, and no fish in the river are they waiting for fish too? There on the sandbars were they like it but you would think if there were fish enough for a couple hundred seals there would be fish in the creek? I'm betting they are waiting but then again I'm no biologist!

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    Smile Thank you . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by alexander View Post
    What your missing Marcus is usaully there are a couple of openings a week, not everyday. That is why we have no fish. . .
    Thanks, alexander, I'm not knowledgeable enough about the history of drift gill-netting in Cook Inlet to question or contest your claim above.

    Can someone enlighten me?

    When did the nets go from "a couple openings a week" to "everyday"? This year? Last year? Five years ago? When?

    Thanks.

    And while we're at it, can someone—alexander?—explain why in the face of everyday-openings, the sockeye run remained strong and escapements met?

    Still doesn't make sense to me . . do the drifters purposely pick off the coho and miss the reds?

    Personally, I'm with sayak . . don't think anyone really has a clue . . probably something happening on the high seas or climate change or shifting ocean patterns or foreign interception or or or or . . .

    Blaming it on the drift fleet seems to me too simple, too facile, too, well . . partisan. Just my take . .

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    Smile Thank you . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by alexander View Post
    What your missing Marcus is usaully there are a couple of openings a week, not everyday. That is why we have no fish. . .
    Thanks, alexander, I'm not knowledgeable enough about the history of drift gill-netting in Cook Inlet to question or contest your claim above.

    Can someone enlighten me?

    When did the nets go from "a couple openings a week" to "everyday"? This year? Last year? Five years ago? When?

    Thanks.

    And while we're at it, can someone—alexander?—explain why in the face of everyday-openings, the sockeye run remained strong and escapements met?

    Still doesn't make sense to me . . do the drifters purposely pick off the coho and miss the reds?

    Personally, I'm with sayak . . don't think anyone really has a clue . . probably something happening on the high seas or climate change or shifting ocean patterns or foreign interception or or or or . . .

    Blaming it on the drift fleet seems to me too simple, too facile, too, well . . partisan. Just my take . .

    Quote Originally Posted by alexander View Post
    While were at it Marcus, you seem to be up on all things fishing, If there are that many Seals at the mouth, and no fish in the river are they waiting for fish too? There on the sandbars were they like it but you would think if there were fish enough for a couple hundred seals there would be fish in the creek? I'm betting they are waiting but then again I'm no biologist!
    Am far from up on all things fishing, alexander . . as for your question, I haven't a clue . . sorry.

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    Usually over the years they have had 2 openings a week, this is the first year they have done this. My bet to why is to appease them because of all the other closures. Dont qoute me on this but I do believe that they are targeting Slivers on the west side. I'm pretty sure there are a lot of Sockeyes on the east side because they wouldnt let them fish them because of the King escapemant. Maybe someone more knowledgable than me can clarify this?

    I have lived on the creek for 13 years and you can bet your bottom dollar on Mondays when they would have an opening you would catch little fish if any and with lots of net marks. Now a couple of times a week was no big deal after all the rest of the days were good fishing so you just chalk it up to everyone getting thier fair share. But everyday leaves no fish for me! It's the dead on this creek and I mean dead.

    Now dont get me wrong I believe everyone should be able to get thier fair share and the sport fisherman is long gone on this creek. Except for a few weekenders with planes thier is nobody here but the 11 people who reside here. Looked at the catches today and there has been 95 thousand silvers caught total by netters and none by me. But what really po's me about the whole deal is the Lady of the house is telling me since there is no fish maybe I ought to catch up on some work! Uggghhhh!

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    The last time I fished Alexander Creek for Kings in 99 we saw 3 boatloads of French guys catch their limits in the AM, and be out that afternoon catching more Kings. I finally asked one of them about it and he said they never got caught, but figured the fine was worth it, as France had no fish like Kings. My understanding is that the Alexander King run is extinct. While Pike may have been the big culprit, can't believe all the illegal fishing had no impact.
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    Mkay there are Lots of reasons for low kings, Pike, and overfishing are surly up there. The Pike program by F&G has been getting results. Lots of Rianbows and Grayling in the fall and some Kings are comming back. Drifted thru the hole just today from Trail Creek and saw about 30 kings altogether. Last year was over 300 on escapement. The creek water has been getting warmer and warmer also. Perfect habitat for Pike but F&G has been netting over 3000 pike a year so we will see. This river has been raped for years by the sport Fisherman. Here is a couple of pics from last fall. Bows and Grayling are Catch and Release only.
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