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Thread: US Marines Are Sticking To Their Guns

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    Default US Marines Are Sticking To Their Guns

    The Marines never stopped using the 1911 and now they have ordered more





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    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/07/28...liber-pistols/





    Sticking to their guns: Marines place $22.5M order for the Colt .45 M1911
    By Maegan Vazquez

    Published July 28, 2012

    FoxNews.com




    The M1911 Colt .45


    The Colt .45 M1911 is making a big comeback, now that the U.S. Marines have placed a $22.5 million order for the Connecticut-made pistols.



    Itís been called the greatest handgun ever made, and it has barely changed sine 1911, when the legendary John Browning designed it especially for the U.S. Military.

    And now, the Colt .45 M1911 is making a big comeback, now that the U.S. Marines have placed a $22.5 million order for the Connecticut-made pistols.

    The gun, which has been wielded on film by John Wayne and in real life by Sgt. Alvin York and Maj. Audie Murphy, was the standard-issue sidearm in the military for decades, until it was replaced by the Beretta M9 in 1985.


    "It just became an iconic part of military and American history."
    - Gerry Dinkel, CEO and president of Colt Defense


    "It just became an iconic part of military and American history," Gerry Dinkel, CEO and president of Colt Defense, told FoxNews.com.

    The gun, one of the most successful pistols ever used at Camp Perry's National Matches, a competition known to be the main world event in artillery sports, has barely changed since it's creation. Dinkel says that shows the gun's "elegant design" just can't be improved on. And firearms experts agree.

    "You canít beat a .45 cartridge," Jack Lewis, firearms director for Cowan's Auctions, told FoxNews.com. "Some things are hard to replace," he said.

    Colt Defense, based in Hartford, Conn., will supply as many as 12,000 of the 200,000 U.S. Marines with semi-automatic, tan-colored M45 Close Quarter Battle Pistols, and they will include spare parts and logistical support. The gun has long been the weapon of choice for special operations agents, thanks to its reliability and the stopping power of its massive bullets.

    "I'm really glad that they're keeping it in the American economy," Lewis, who used the gun while he was in the armed forces, said. "I was quite upset when they went to the Beretta," Lewis said.

    Some reports suggest Marines are not happy with their main Beretta M9s for their lack of accuracy and stopping power. With M1911's now supplying Special Ops, growing interest may lead to a better solution.

    "To have the 1911 selected again for U. S. Forces 101 years after its initial introduction is just an incredible testament to the timeless design and effectiveness of the Colt 1911," Dinkel said. "This is truly a gratifying contract award."

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    There is a saying, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".
    Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocre minds. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Albert Einstein

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitroman View Post
    There is a saying, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".
    M9 is in the twilight of it's years...I believe. No need for "double tap" with the nineteen elebin.
    Somewhere along the way I have lost the ability to act politically correct. If you should find it, please feel free to keep it.

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    I've watched many war documentaries where veterans would talk about the enormous stopping power of the 1911. They described enemies running full speed at them and looking like they hit a brick wall with one round from the 1911. They talked of that pistol with a fondness I didn't understand until I got one....

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    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    Only $1,875.00 bucks a pop
    Now left only to be a turd in the forrest and the circle will be complete.Use me as I have used you

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    Supporting Member iofthetaiga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amigo Will View Post
    Only $1,875.00 bucks a pop
    ...They come with a little titanium tooth pick, tweezers, scissors....
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amigo Will View Post
    Only $1,875.00 bucks a pop

    Quote Originally Posted by iofthetaiga View Post
    ...They come with a little titanium tooth pick, tweezers, scissors....



    Did you guys miss this part of the article?

    Colt Defense, based in Hartford, Conn., will supply as many as 12,000 of the 200,000 U.S. Marines with semi-automatic, tan-colored M45 Close Quarter Battle Pistols, and they will include spare parts and logistical support. The gun has long been the weapon of choice for special operations agents, thanks to its reliability and the stopping power of its massive bullets.

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    Supporting Member iofthetaiga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwp500 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by jwp500 View Post
    Colt Defense, based in Hartford, Conn., will supply as many as 12,000 of the 200,000 U.S. Marines with semi-automatic, tan-colored M45 Close Quarter Battle Pistols, and they will include spare parts and logistical support. The gun has long been the weapon of choice for special operations agents, thanks to its reliability and the stopping power of its massive bullets.
    Did you guys miss this part of the article?
    Miss it? Of course not. That's half the input needed to compute the individual piece price. Did you catch the "as many as" part? That means the potential profit margin could be much higher. Good for Colt. Our tax dollars at work.
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    Quote Originally Posted by iofthetaiga View Post
    Miss it? Of course not. That's half the input needed to compute the individual piece price. Did you catch the "as many as" part? That means the potential profit margin could be much higher. Good for Colt. Our tax dollars at work.

    Parts and logistic support

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    Supporting Member iofthetaiga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jwp500 View Post
    Parts and logistic support
    C'mon man, it was a self promotional PRESS RELEASE from the company that won the very lucrative bid. Apply some critical thinking, based in the reality of how govt contracts are written. What does "parts and logistical support" mean exactly, and how much is it worth? It's just word play in a press release. What you so defensive about? Like I said; good for Colt.
    ...he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods & errors. ~Thomas Jefferson
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    The US Marines have never given up their arms easily. Read some history and you'll see they fought to keep their 1903s when everybody else went to the 1903A3s, Fought to keep their M1s when everybody else was already using M14s etcetcetc. And since every Marine is first a rifleman, they use them very well. Jsut because sone group of Washington Buerocrats wants to change our Governments handgun, isn't going to stop the USMC Jarheads. Semper Fi.
    Steve

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    Regardless of the "profit margin" it is going to an American company. Better than overseas to my way of thinking.

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    I would have bought a 1911 years ago if the vast majority didn't have 52 different levers and safeties. Cool firearm and cool news though.
    Science has a rich history of proving itself wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RainGull View Post
    I would have bought a 1911 years ago if the vast majority didn't have 52 different levers and safeties. Cool firearm and cool news though.
    Don't know what the problems are with standard levers and safeties(John Browning designs)?
    Steve

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    Quote Originally Posted by iofthetaiga View Post
    Apply some critical thinking, based in the reality of how govt contracts are written. What does "parts and logistical support" mean exactly, and how much is it worth?.
    As a complete thread drift...

    "Parts and Logisitics support" is becoming more of a feature of gov't contacts as DOD relies on greater numbers of civilian specialists to keep weapons and weapons systems up and running and the contract will generally spell out the provisions. Particularly true of more specialized and high tech weapons.

    Essentially it could be almost anything but a performance based logistics contract will have a contractor delivering a functional number of units periodically. For example- having a certain number of mission capable aircraft on a flight line each morning, or having a number of functional weapons in inventory at the end of each week. It is much more than a unit delivery contract where the soldiers do the maintenance and repair work and much more stringent as it will spell out the max number that could be out for repair/refurb.

    Basically the vendor promises a certain number of working units available- it puts more liability on the contractor to deliver much more than just a case of parts.

    Good contract for Colt and likely a good deal for the taxpayer and Marines as well.
    "I do not deal in hypotheticals. The world, as it is, is vexing enough..." Col. Stonehill, True Grit

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    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    I'm fairly sure the Marine armorers are well versed on the maintenance of the 1911 and complete parts kits ain't much cost on the market.
    Now left only to be a turd in the forrest and the circle will be complete.Use me as I have used you

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    Member hodgeman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amigo Will View Post
    I'm fairly sure the Marine armorers are well versed on the maintenance of the 1911 and complete parts kits ain't much cost on the market.
    I don't know the exact details of the Colt contract but in general terms that's what a PBL contract is- which was iofthetaiga's question.You'd think the Marines could work on their own 1911s but I've seen crazier stuff let out on PBL. Sometimes the gov't cost to stand up a depot (for anything beyond line maintenance) is just too much and the initial vendor can do it way cheaper.

    Despite the 1911s long military history, I'm not sure of the current state of their depot capability for them since they haven't been standard issue in any quantity for a long time now.
    "I do not deal in hypotheticals. The world, as it is, is vexing enough..." Col. Stonehill, True Grit

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    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    I know they can turn junk ones into bullseye guns and tight ones into lose combat ready ones.The ones they turn out for use at Quantico are very nice indeed as shooters
    Now left only to be a turd in the forrest and the circle will be complete.Use me as I have used you

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    Quote Originally Posted by jwp500 View Post
    The Marines never stopped using the 1911 and now they have ordered more

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------

    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/07/28...liber-pistols/

    Sticking to their guns: Marines place $22.5M order for the Colt .45 M1911
    By Maegan Vazquez

    Published July 28, 2012

    FoxNews.com
    The M1911 Colt .45

    The Colt .45 M1911 is making a big comeback, now that the U.S. Marines have placed a $22.5 million order for the Connecticut-made pistols.

    Itís been called the greatest handgun ever made, and it has barely changed sine 1911, when the legendary John Browning designed it especially for the U.S. Military.

    And now, the Colt .45 M1911 is making a big comeback, now that the U.S. Marines have placed a $22.5 million order for the Connecticut-made pistols.

    The gun, which has been wielded on film by John Wayne and in real life by Sgt. Alvin York and Maj. Audie Murphy, was the standard-issue sidearm in the military for decades, until it was replaced by the Beretta M9 in 1985.


    "It just became an iconic part of military and American history."
    - Gerry Dinkel, CEO and president of Colt Defense


    "It just became an iconic part of military and American history," Gerry Dinkel, CEO and president of Colt Defense, told FoxNews.com.

    The gun, one of the most successful pistols ever used at Camp Perry's National Matches, a competition known to be the main world event in artillery sports, has barely changed since it's creation. Dinkel says that shows the gun's "elegant design" just can't be improved on. And firearms experts agree.

    "You canít beat a .45 cartridge," Jack Lewis, firearms director for Cowan's Auctions, told FoxNews.com. "Some things are hard to replace," he said.

    Colt Defense, based in Hartford, Conn., will supply as many as 12,000 of the 200,000 U.S. Marines with semi-automatic, tan-colored M45 Close Quarter Battle Pistols, and they will include spare parts and logistical support. The gun has long been the weapon of choice for special operations agents, thanks to its reliability and the stopping power of its massive bullets.

    "I'm really glad that they're keeping it in the American economy," Lewis, who used the gun while he was in the armed forces, said. "I was quite upset when they went to the Beretta," Lewis said.

    Some reports suggest Marines are not happy with their main Beretta M9s for their lack of accuracy and stopping power. With M1911's now supplying Special Ops, growing interest may lead to a better solution.

    "To have the 1911 selected again for U. S. Forces 101 years after its initial introduction is just an incredible testament to the timeless design and effectiveness of the Colt 1911," Dinkel said. "This is truly a gratifying contract award."
    WHAT are they thinking?

    If they used 22s, they could carry more ammunition.

    Also, less recoil, so it would be easier to train new Marines.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jwp500 View Post
    Some reports suggest Marines are not happy with their main Beretta M9s for their lack of accuracy...
    I don't know about this. I shot an M9 on my squadron's pistol team, and it was a good, accurate gun. Easy to shoot accurately. Soft recoil so we could train more. Cheaper ammo, too.

    There use to be horror stories of POS 1911s that a shooter couldn't hit the barn door with. These were mostly shot out WWII surplus guns. I wonder how many of these "inaccurate" M9's are just wore out machines as well.

    I'm not going to get into a pooping match about which gun is better because I don't like either of them and I don't care either way, but as taiga said "Apply some critical thinking." Colt saying a Beretta is inaccurate is like Chevy saying their truck is better than Ford's.

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