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Thread: I just talked to Jess of JES Reboring

  1. #1

    Default I just talked to Jess of JES Reboring

    He said that for me to send my 7mm mag to him and have it come back rechambered and rebored to 358 Norma mag will cost but $225.00. His work is quality too, I've had him do 7mm-08 to 338 Federal, 308 to 358, 30-06 to 338-06 and 30-30 to 375 Winchester and some of the above more than once. Everyone of them met my satisfaction! Yes Sir, Jes Reboring is a friend to the shooting world.
    Skuse me while I go box up a rifle!

  2. #2
    Moderator LuJon's Avatar
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    Sweet! You keeping the original barrel length or hacking it down? Adding iron sights?

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    Quote Originally Posted by LuJon View Post
    Sweet! You keeping the original barrel length or hacking it down? Adding iron sights?
    No sights for now Lujon! I have really been debating with myself on barrel length. I would love to have a 20 inch barrel on it but havent convinced myself that that is long enough to get a clean burn on that volume of powder. I know a 338WM suffers when shot in a short barrel and also know that the 375 Ruger shines with a 20 inch barrel. The 358 NM is right smack dab in the middle of those two so I don't know. This thread would be a good place to debate what barrel length I should choose. What do you think Lujon? Murphy what do you think? The rest of you?

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    Member mainer_in_ak's Avatar
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    The 358 bore likes short barrels. The 358 Norma mag allows the use of powders that do very well with shorter barrels, even more so than that 338 win mag. Due to the longer dimensions of the chamber eating up barrel length(as opposed to a short action), I'd go with a 21 in. barrel myself.

    Scopes love open sights and quick release rings. Especially after they've been dropped.

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    Member hodgeman's Avatar
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    All this talk of .35s is making want to punch out a .270 I recently picked up.....wonder what a Ruger Express would be like in .35 Whelen?
    "I do not deal in hypotheticals. The world, as it is, is vexing enough..." Col. Stonehill, True Grit

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    Member mainer_in_ak's Avatar
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    I wonder more what it'd be like in 9.3x62!

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by mainer_in_ak View Post
    I wonder more what it'd be like in 9.3x62!
    I know you're a fan of the 9.3mm bore, but I just don't see how it offers anything the .358" does not, yet you lose the ability to use cheap pistol bullets. In my opinion that's why the .358's are the most versatile cartridges out there.

    EKC, like I said in the other thread, my .358 Norma barrel is a 22" #4 contour. I get within 100 fps of the advertised velocities that are usually from 26" tubes. I mainly use H-4895 in my with good results. I know you're a fan of that powder.

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    Mine is a 24" and has a little freebore. It sends a 250gr at 2880 using Imr 4350. If I were to cut it, I probably would go either 21 or 22in. I form my cases using 300WM and because of the long throat I can leave the necks about .050 longer than normal which makes a nice long neck.

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    Member bigswede358's Avatar
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    EKC,

    I think you'll like that big 35. I have 2 of them now, mine has a 24" barrel and I just had one with a 22" tube made up for my boy. I haven't had a chance to do any load developing yet in the 22" as to compare velocities. I made mine several years back with the intentions of elk killing with it, so far all it has killed is a couple of whitetail bucks. The 24" barrel shoots 250 Hornady's about 2800 fps and 225 Accubonds at 2925 fps. I think the 225's would make a great High country Mulie deer load. Let us know what length barrel you decide on, and enjoy that "Big Swede"
    LIVE TO HUNT....HUNT TO LIVE!!!!

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by mainer_in_ak View Post
    The 358 bore likes short barrels. The 358 Norma mag allows the use of powders that do very well with shorter barrels, even more so than that 338 win mag. Due to the longer dimensions of the chamber eating up barrel length(as opposed to a short action), I'd go with a 21 in. barrel myself.

    Scopes love open sights and quick release rings. Especially after they've been dropped.
    I'd have to disagree with this, mostly form the stand point that it makes no sense.

    Barrel length vs bore diameter is far more dependent on case capacity than any other factor. The 358 Norma is a magnum belted case about 2.5" long. The 358 Winchester is a 2" 308 case. The 358 W holds about 45 grains of powder the 358 holds about 70 or so grains of powder. They cannot use the same powder with any level of efficiency. Any case that holds 70 to 75 grains of powder needs some barrel length to burn it. Burn rate of the powder does factor in but it is match to the bore size vs volume, a technical concept called expansion ratio. If we neck up the 358 case to say 416 (416 Taylor) we would use faster powder about in line with 4895 powder, for the 358 NM we need to stay around the 4350, RL-19 burn rate. If we neck it down to a smaller caliber, such as 26 (264 WM) we would need to go to the slowest burning powders, 4831, RL-25, for the most efficient use.

    Expansion Ratio is the volume of the swept bore plus the powder volume compared to the swept bore volume only.
    The 264 WM has a very low Expansion Ratio, the 416 Taylor has a high ratio because it has more bore volume for the gases to expand.

    The 358 Norma does not do well with the faster powders that we normally associate with short barrel loads. Short is a relative term but barrels as short as 22" will not achieve the highest velocity and they will likely give rather high levels of flash and boom. The 358 Norma is a great round and should have been far more popular. I would consider it as capable as the 375H&H with good bullets in the field. The Norma handles the 280 grain Swift A frame well and gives it about 2550 fps from 24" of barrel. It gives up only 20 grains of bullet weight to the venerable 375H&H. This is done with 71 to 73 grains of H4350 or Rl-19.

    Expansion Ratio and Sectional Density are two simple numbers to plug in to determine the idea powder burn rate.

    As for 338 WM vs 358 NM they have the same chamber length (within a few thousandths) and one uses as much barrel as the other.
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



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    Quote Originally Posted by elmerkeithclone View Post
    No sights for now Lujon! I have really been debating with myself on barrel length. I would love to have a 20 inch barrel on it but havent convinced myself that that is long enough to get a clean burn on that volume of powder. I know a 338WM suffers when shot in a short barrel and also know that the 375 Ruger shines with a 20 inch barrel. The 358 NM is right smack dab in the middle of those two so I don't know. This thread would be a good place to debate what barrel length I should choose. What do you think Lujon? Murphy what do you think? The rest of you?
    Well....barrel length, is a compromise from the beginning. We have to carry it, we have to shoot it. One task requires one length the other task, something else. When I build a gun generally I start with a concept of purpose. What am I going to do with it? Now what animal will I kill with it but how will I carry it, and where and how will it be used? I decide the configuration around that. Then I adapt the cartridge that will work best for what I will hunt into the new rifle design. For instance the Ruger Alaskan rifle. It is ideal for thick jess hunting in Zimbabwe and thick Alaskan coastal growth. Fortunately its available in a cartridge or two that are ideal for animals encountered in both hunting areas. Forty caliber guns are pretty happy in 20" barrels until powder capacity gets up to RUM levels. The 375 H&H and the 375 Ruger would both be best kept at least 22" but sometimes we suffer the blast to get the quick handling characteristics of the 20" tube. The 358 with like case volume will be louder than the 375 bore, but maybe we're splitting hairs. If short and nimble are more important attributes than full velocity and if the blast for the field shooting is tolerable, the barrel at 21" may be the way to go. For me If I want a rifle for close quarters work that I need to be short and quick handling, I'd choose another cartridge, a bigger bore. The 410 Warthog was tested and all loads developed with a 20" barrel. It's quieter than a 24" 375 H&H. I don't care what it will do in a 24" barrel because it's designed for close work to deliver 350 grains @ 2450 fps within iron sight distance. If you consider your 358 NM to be a 300 yard 3000 ft.lb. ME delivery system with a 3-10 Leupold, by all means keep the barrel at 24". If it is more of a thick cover, inside the alders, sort out a wounded griz, rifle, then 20" of barrel and the heaviest bullet is the way to go.
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



  12. #12

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    Good advice Murphy, and good luck with your new project EKC. I will be looking for your future post on how it all ended up in configuration, the accuracy and velocity of your loads and of course down the road when you drop game with it.
    A GUN WRITER NEEDS:
    THE MIND OF A SCHOLAR
    THE HEART OF A CHILD
    THE HIDE OF A RHINOCEROS

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Murphy View Post
    Well....barrel length, is a compromise from the beginning. We have to carry it, we have to shoot it. One task requires one length the other task, something else. When I build a gun generally I start with a concept of purpose. What am I going to do with it? Now what animal will I kill with it but how will I carry it, and where and how will it be used? I decide the configuration around that. Then I adapt the cartridge that will work best for what I will hunt into the new rifle design. For instance the Ruger Alaskan rifle. It is ideal for thick jess hunting in Zimbabwe and thick Alaskan coastal growth. Fortunately its available in a cartridge or two that are ideal for animals encountered in both hunting areas. Forty caliber guns are pretty happy in 20" barrels until powder capacity gets up to RUM levels. The 375 H&H and the 375 Ruger would both be best kept at least 22" but sometimes we suffer the blast to get the quick handling characteristics of the 20" tube. The 358 with like case volume will be louder than the 375 bore, but maybe we're splitting hairs. If short and nimble are more important attributes than full velocity and if the blast for the field shooting is tolerable, the barrel at 21" may be the way to go. For me If I want a rifle for close quarters work that I need to be short and quick handling, I'd choose another cartridge, a bigger bore. The 410 Warthog was tested and all loads developed with a 20" barrel. It's quieter than a 24" 375 H&H. I don't care what it will do in a 24" barrel because it's designed for close work to deliver 350 grains @ 2450 fps within iron sight distance. If you consider your 358 NM to be a 300 yard 3000 ft.lb. ME delivery system with a 3-10 Leupold, by all means keep the barrel at 24". If it is more of a thick cover, inside the alders, sort out a wounded griz, rifle, then 20" of barrel and the heaviest bullet is the way to go.
    Murphy you nailed it. I have never really liked cartridges that required a couple extra inches of barrel to realize their full potential. While barrel length will always have some effect on all cartridges there is a huge difference from one cartridge to the next. A lot of powder down a little hole needs more length to burn up.

    I have pondered this project more than most projects. To be simple I was wanting a short handy thumper. The more I looked at the 358 Norma the more I was thinking that it wasn't the cartridge to do what I was after. My reloading manuals were all showing me around 2800 fps with a 250 grain bullet in the Norma Mag. However it takes a 25 1/2 or 26 inch barrel to accomplish this. Guess what?? The 375 Ruger does that in a 20 inch barrel....plus there are more options to use even larger bullets if desired. True the 375 does burn around 10 grains more powder but the .020 increase in bore diameter is just enough for a more efficient burn in the shorter barrel ( Murphy's volume explanation). Therefore the gun was shipped today and Jess is going to make it a 375 Ruger with a 20 inch barrel.......and I am getting what I'm after!

  14. #14

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    As for scope? It will be low magnification. One of my sale flyers had a high end Nikon 1x4x20 on sale and that sounds about right!

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    Quote Originally Posted by elmerkeithclone View Post
    Murphy you nailed it. I have never really liked cartridges that required a couple extra inches of barrel to realize their full potential. While barrel length will always have some effect on all cartridges there is a huge difference from one cartridge to the next. A lot of powder down a little hole needs more length to burn up.

    I have pondered this project more than most projects. To be simple I was wanting a short handy thumper. The more I looked at the 358 Norma the more I was thinking that it wasn't the cartridge to do what I was after. My reloading manuals were all showing me around 2800 fps with a 250 grain bullet in the Norma Mag. However it takes a 25 1/2 or 26 inch barrel to accomplish this. Guess what?? The 375 Ruger does that in a 20 inch barrel....plus there are more options to use even larger bullets if desired. True the 375 does burn around 10 grains more powder but the .020 increase in bore diameter is just enough for a more efficient burn in the shorter barrel ( Murphy's volume explanation). Therefore the gun was shipped today and Jess is going to make it a 375 Ruger with a 20 inch barrel.......and I am getting what I'm after!
    The powder volume of the 375 Ruger is probably more like 5 grains more than the 358N. It is a better performer in a short barrel without doubt. I've shot this 20 inch Ruger lots and find it to be a very manageable rifle in regards to noise and recoil. The barrel is about the right weight. A rebore of a 7 mag to 375 might make a very light barrel. I don't recall how heavy is a Ruger 7mm. Usually too heavy for a 7mm.
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Murphy View Post
    A rebore of a 7 mag to 375 might make a very light barrel.
    Got one, a Rem 700 and clipped to 22". Bare rifle weighs under 7#. Picked it up for a song and found out why when I shot it. Zounds.

    Recoil is enough, my trigger finger kept hitting the floor plate release and dumping the other shells on the ground. I always intended to pin it, but 20 years later it still wears a strip of duct tape to hold the floor plate closed.

    Gotta say though, every time I think about scoping, adding weight, rebarreling or dumping, I carry the thing in the field. Light and handy for sure and only moderately painful offhand. On the rare occasions I bench it, I put a 25# shot bag between me and it.

    Still my favorite carry rifle, but it's a force of will to put 200 rounds through it each spring.

  17. #17

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    It will have plenty of eye relief! I've got a bunch of 375 bullets to play with. I have some big hard cast gas check Beartooth bullets that I plan to run through this gun!

    I know I have made posts in the past about not being recoil sensitive, well I am more so now than 5 years ago(been a lot of water under the bridge in the last 1/2 decade!). Never the less I will get it zeroed in and after that it will be fed full house loads only while hunting.

    My brother has a H&H that he has had for as long as I can remember. It has been in hand on some long wanders after some big brown fuzzies and has accounted for three 9 foot+ Brown Bears. Yet I doubt that it has had 100 rounds put through it since day one! My little Ruger may be the same.

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