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Thread: Was excited to pick up my new mill today...the rest of the story...

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    Member RainGull's Avatar
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    Default Was excited to pick up my new mill today...the rest of the story...

    Got to AML and saw a large crate with Grizzly Industrial on it and it had to be the one. I noticed that it was too large and then looked at the model number on the end of the box and saw that it was a combo mill/16.5"x31" lathe and not what I had ordered. But it had my name on it so having shelled out more than a few dollars up to this point I took it home since AML had nothing to do with it, so it wasn't their burden. Went to call Grizzly and got their voicemail saying that they knew about the error last week but couldn't stop it in time to keep it off the barge and so they just waited till it got here to make sure it was as wrong as they thought it was. It would have been nice had they informed me earlier and would have saved me showing the strange tourist around town today.

    I had wondered why the freight was so much more than I was quoted and it was much larger then I was expecting, but luckily a 15 passenger van is pretty big and I had pulled the two rear seats out which makes it a 8 passenger van with a 6'+ bed inside rated for several tons. So I got to haul the thing back and send it on it's way back South for a lovely ride to Seattle.

    Still waiting to see if Grizzly makes it all right. I really hope they don't send me the mill that the University of California got without inspecting it for shipping damage after that long strange trip. You'd think they would send a new mill out ASAP with apologies.

    So my excitement continues for a while I guess.

    update: new mill on it's way with apologies.
    Science has a rich history of proving itself wrong.

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    Sponsor ADfields's Avatar
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    So what did ya get??? Or ugh what did ya order? When I got my 13X40 Smithy IMX combo shipped up somebody had stabbed a forklift fork through the gear head . . . what a major letdown to send it right back.
    Andy
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    That would stink. I ordered a G0619/SX3 small mill and received a G9729 combo 16.5"x31" lathe/mill. I really didn't want a combo machine or it would have saved them money for me to just keep it. I seriously debated a PM-30 mill but was more comfortable going with Grizzly so went with the G0619 (can't really handle a larger mill right now and couldn't find anything at all locally). Going to order a new lathe (G0602) pretty soon too. It will be somewhat limited for gunsmithing applications but will definatley work for my needs.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ADfields View Post
    So what did ya get??? Or ugh what did ya order? When I got my 13X40 Smithy IMX combo shipped up somebody had stabbed a forklift fork through the gear head . . . what a major letdown to send it right back.
    You should have seen us moving the VH-4 Haas CNC Mill around, guys hanging on the back of the forklift to balance the load.....

    Then as it gets close, an argument breaks out about leveling...I comment "hey maybe we should read the instructions". Kristy West says to me "This is Alaska, nobody reads instructions. Next thing you know, they will be looking for beer"

    I kid you not, no more than 30 seconds later somebody shouts "Hey any beer in the shop?"

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    Thatís a slick little mill and Iím thinking about getting one myself and CNC it like this.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wf6QUc9KUig

    I love my big Smithy combo, itís a good mill and a great lathe but man does it suck changing over all the time! Seems if itís set for milling I need to turn something or the other way around. Then I usually got to pull the compound or vice and indicate the other back onto the table, what a pain that is. I plan to drill dowel hole through them into the bed someday to make it faster for a centered set-up but Iím off center someplace with half my set-ups.

    When you get the lathe Iíd go for the G9972Z. For a couple hundred bucks more youíll get a lot more threading options, 4Ē more bed, and about 100 pounds more to soak up chatter. The 4Ē of bed donít sound like much but it allows you to actually turn about 20Ē without turning the compound around because the cross feed saddle is running into the tailstock. What I mean is, to turn at the chuck you must set your tool toward the left, so then you go feeding out in X the right side of the saddle hitís the tailstock before the tool gets to the end of cut. The extra bed lets you set the tailstock back and run the stinger out to get room and not need to re-set your tool and find its position all over again.
    Andy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildalaska View Post
    You should have seen us moving the VH-4 Haas CNC Mill around, guys hanging on the back of the forklift to balance the load.....

    Then as it gets close, an argument breaks out about leveling...I comment "hey maybe we should read the instructions". Kristy West says to me "This is Alaska, nobody reads instructions. Next thing you know, they will be looking for beer"

    I kid you not, no more than 30 seconds later somebody shouts "Hey any beer in the shop?"
    Hahaha, Iíve lived that rodeo before, no thanks!

    Down in Arizona we bought 2 new Mazak milling centers, great big honking things each with 3 changeable 3X5 foot pallet type tables to need the most floor space ever. The original plan was to put them in our warehouse but the boss decided he didnít want to pay to AC that in the Arizona heat. So we got the pleasure of moving 8 CNC lathes from a 6X45 to a 24X160 and 11 CNC mills all around over the next six weekends.

    Two of the big mills took 3 weekends just to move from point A to point B, they were huge old things from the 60s that programmed off punch cards with vacuum tube computers. Gawd were they heavy old things but they made short work of hogging out heavy steel forgings while chucking red hot chips 20 foot in all directions, I still have little brands on my arms too. There was more than a couple shouting matches moving them things on round bars for rollers over steel plates and 2 forklifts for power. "I said left, LEFT!" stop? "LEFT!! LEFT!!" ...... "STOP STOP (crunch) STOP!!" But you said left! (LOL)


    Couldnít fit a big enough forklift inside the shop to even start lifting those monsters . . . computers the size of a shed all hard-wired without any plugs so it's tethered by 4ď conduit to the mills.
    Andy
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    Member RainGull's Avatar
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    I will probably go the cnc route eventually (a year or so out) but not right up front (just some iGaging DRO's). I looked at the G9972Z but couldn't get past the decreased thread range and that the machine only feeds and threads to the left.

    Getting the wrong machine, I was all set up to receive the smaller mill, it was a tight fit putting the larger mill/lathe combo in the back of the van (6' long X 4' tall X 2.5' wide and 700+ lbs). I had the forklift operator load it a little short thinking I could push it in the rest of the way and had to get the driver to come back and bump it a bit. I don't even want to be involved in moving the big stuff! That's what overheads and forklifts are for.

    When I was in school I was working on a massive Allison Chalmers dozer. A guy brought it in to have the steering clutches/brakes replaced and some engine work done. Pulling the right rear clutch we got all the bolts off we could find and hooked it to the overhead hoist and pulled. It wouldn't budge so we looked and looked and looked for what we were missing. Next thing you know we have the overhead and two forklifts (one of them a big diesel lift) all straining to rip this thing out. We had like 5 tons or more on it. I can't remember how we ever got it out, but I remember fabricating the new bands for it and certainly remember driving it around afterwards. The fire department had a cinder block wall they used to practice on right by our shop and my instructor casually came up to me and let it be known that he didn't say anything, but really wouldn't mind seeing it taken out...Say no more wink wink know what I mean know what I mean (Monty Python). It was pretty fun running stuff over with that thing. Too many good stories from that stint...
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    I think you'll be spending quite a bit of time on your new machine, and it will be fun too! I have a small Atlas mill complete with accessories I bought from a fellow in New York. I was lucky in that he was a machinist instructor and had gone through the mill so it was like brand new.
    If you want CNC I wouldn't do add-on but from the source. Check this place out: http://www.microkinetics.com/cncsys.htm
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    I see I had the threading ranges backward on the two models but donít find where one feeds one way only and the other both ways. I see no reverse lever on ether machine and reversing just the motor rotation will run the chuck backwards too. Matter of fact if you flip the tool upside-down you can feed/cut/thread the other way without a reverse gear just by reversing the motor, I thread feeding out with the tool up-side down sometimes but youĎd still need a reversing gear head to cut left hand threads . . . which is so confusing Iíd never do it without CNC anyway.

    They are very vague on the details but I see G9972Z has half nut and feed levers and the G0602 just a half nut so I assume no gearbox in that oneĎs saddle apron. Feeding off the half nut works but will wear the threads on the shaft out faster. I donít see where they say ether has a feed reversing gear in the head just reversible motors. I donít think ether power feeds in ďYĒ so Iíd think lifting up on the feed lever on the G9972Z would feed it out/right/- in ďXĒ and down would feed in/left/+ but no left hand threading off the half nut without a reversing gear in the headstock head. Pros and cons to all of them and a lot depends on what work you are doing with one.

    I agree with Nitroman about retro-fitting CNC. I got my DRO kit from Star (same one for same price Smithy sells it for) and bypassed the $150 mounting brackets from Smithy. Then I spent two days and $30 making brackets to make the thing fit right. If Iíd paid Smithy the $150 they would have even installed the thing for me, so for 2 days of frustration I saved myself a whapping $120. Iím sure CNC would be the same thing on a much bigger scale so when I do it Iíll their direct fit stuff that somebody worked most of the bugs out of.

    So when does your correct mill get here now?
    Andy
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    Member RainGull's Avatar
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    Mill got on the barge today, so it should be here Tuesday.

    For cnc I've been thinking the cnc fushion deluxe kit:
    http://cncfusion.com/smallmill1.html
    and a drive system from soigeneris on 3 or four axis:
    http://www.soigeneris.com/Complete_D...tems-list.aspx

    Then I would likely run Mach3 on a laptop.

    Honestly I wish I could afford a gunsmithing lathe with a longer bed and larger bore, but then I don't anticipate too many near term projects that would require it. I'd rather use the money on a 6" rotary table and good 4" vise, end mills, a boring head, a collet set, A nice big arbor press and broaches for cutting keyways, a laser center/edge finder, a good tool grinder, a QC tool post, etc... I have a nice long list coming together. I did pick up a nice more than full Starrett back plunger set recently for $50 for set ups and tramming.

    Just counting the days...
    Science has a rich history of proving itself wrong.

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    Yea the tooling is a killer, 4 lower tool boxes full of machining tools and still never have the correct this or that for whatever Iím doing. Donít forget dividing plates to fit whatever rotary you get . . . and a chuck for it is real handy too.
    Andy
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    Well, whatís the scoop? Did it come and your too busy playing to tell us or did it not and your to discussed to tell us?

    I ordered a 6Ē 4 jaw chuck for my rotary table from them last Friday and it got here Thursday. Then today I got an email saying the order shipped, so the chuck got here before they shipped it somehow.

    Spent today making a mounting plate and sheís all done. Except there were three 40mm long mounting bolts and one 60mm so I got to go round up an M6x1.5x60 bolt. Iím real tempted to tap all 4 to 3/8Ē but it looks like some pretty hard cast steel that I donĎt want to snap a tap in.
    Andy
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    Yep, it came. Been busy and in process of moving so I haven't even taken it out of the box yet, or taken it out of my van for that matter, (were supposed to move sooner than is happening). Checked out the new shop though and it is going to be much better than I anticipated with lots of room to grow. Now instead of having my reloading stuff in boxes and my chainsaws in my closet/shed and the shed too packed to use the chain grinder, tools in piles, blah blah blah...I will have plenty of space to have everything out and set up and room left over to build a boat inside and the kids to roller skate. Throw in the dolly varden across the street and it's heaven to me! Can't wait to set the mill up and start making chips let alone place my next order.
    Science has a rich history of proving itself wrong.

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    Good deal, let us know how the little mill works.

    I found the limits of my mill yesterday working on that chuck adapter. I had a 18X18 chunk of 3/4" hot roll and milled an 8-1/2Ē circle from it on my rotary table, I hate to true burned edges on the lathe but I should have plasma cut it and put it on the lathe anyway. I used a .375Ē up cutting 4-flute and was able to take it around at .125Ē deep full face cut. The 2hp motor would do way more so I tried .150Ē but the machine started walking around the room from lack of rigidity in the mill table and backlash in the rotary table. .100Ē would have been more wise but thatís 3 more times Iíd be cranking that dang 40 to 1 table around hand feeding it. Still Iím impresses with the thing, it hogs mild steel pretty dang good for a little thing.

    Based on this I think the 1 horse motor on yours will be plenty of power to do more than the iron can take too. But IĎm excited to hear how it does and I may order me one too and CNC it.
    Andy
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    I haven't heard of a small mill yet that had all the rigidity the motor could use. I think the DC motor will help on mine, but I'm definitely not ever going to exceed .1 in steel, even if I anchor the column.

    I'm almost old enough to be patient so here's hoping this will push me over the edge.

    If I get too frustrated I'll just sell some land and buy a bigger mill now that I know I'll have the room, but I doubt that will be too soon.

    Eventually I want to start metal-casting and tempering etc...Metal prices are too high and there is too much scrap metal lying around to ignore it. I am starting to look at waste oil forced air burners. Probably just stick in the lower heat ranges and do aluminum.

    Should be doing the break-in in a week or two.
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    Iím a patient guy myself but Iím more so when watching a CNC than when Iím turning a crank at a feeding rate for an hour. I wanted to see what it would do too, Iíve mostly been working in 6061 and thatís no challenge at all for it. Love the variable DC motor, just turn the knob till you find what it likes, spindle speed compensates a lot for rigidity issues.

    Iíve not done much casting but I have done a lot of blacksmithing and Iím with you on the scrap mettle sitting all around. Most people see an old busted car where I see a stock pile of all kinds of quality mettles. All the aluminum housings sitting around and the price of shipping have me thinking about a little foundry too. Aluminum is easy to melt and pour but the molds is the work, hand mulling green sand is why I have only done a little casting.
    Andy
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    Aluminum is easy to melt and pour but the molds is the work, hand mulling green sand is why I have only done a little casting.
    My thinking is that with aluminum easy to hog, you could get away with just casting ingots and dispense with the intricacies of green sand. As you say, I have long eyeballed bell housings, wheels, and intakes etc... for all that scrap aluminum.
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    Ingots will work but with a power muller green sand isnít bad ether. I had a small trash can lined with refractory cement that I sat on my blacksmith coal forge and Iíd do about 3 pounds at a time. Just set it on the fire, turn on the blower and liquid aluminum in no time. What Iím thinking about now is the same thing but bigger sitting on the ground. For heat coal, charcoal or even fire inside the bottom this time with a side blast blower. Iíve seen this done and lord is it fast, should be able to do 12-15 pounds of aluminum.

    Plaster makes a good mold too but you got to temper any moisture out of it slowly in an oven . . . I once made tensile from 4 ounces of .9999 fine silver because I didnít temper a plaster mold enough.
    Andy
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    Scary! I love steam power, but not like that.
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    I just ordered a Grizzly 4" tilting table with the accessory 4-jaw independent chuck. I need the tilting table as I will be milling out the taper in carbs for chainsaws.
    Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocre minds. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Albert Einstein

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