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Thread: Camping above the bridge..........what is Ahtna land & what isnt..?

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    Member Akgramps's Avatar
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    Default Camping above the bridge..........what is Ahtna land & what isnt..?

    I have camped on the north side of the bridge the last few years, sometimes the Ahtna folks come by and ask for money & sometines they dont..?

    Isnt there a spot next to bridge that is actually public land and not Ahtna....?

    Does any one know if this is so and if its marked or where you could find this out?

    I have looked at Athna's website and do not see this area excluded, maybe will contact them next week, wondering if someone here knows the answer.......Thanks
    “Nothing worth doing is easy”
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    Member alaskankid13's Avatar
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    Which bridge are you talking about? Might help some of us help you.

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    There is a marker on the north side of the bridge showing where Ahtna land stops and the right-of-way begins.


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    Quote Originally Posted by alaskankid13 View Post
    Which bridge are you talking about? Might help some of us help you.
    Yeah duh....that would have been helpful........bridge across the Copper at Chitina. Looks like gr8fl mailed it........
    “Nothing worth doing is easy”
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    Member Akgramps's Avatar
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    ThtThis is from Ahtnas website..........
    Attached Files Attached Files
    “Nothing worth doing is easy”
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    Member Grayling Slayer's Avatar
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    I got a trespass warning from Ahetna, camping right against the bank of the bridge. Pretty sure this is state land highway right away.
    "I'd rather be fishing!"

  7. #7

    Default You're right, but...

    Quote Originally Posted by Grayling Slayer View Post
    I got a trespass warning from Ahetna, camping right against the bank of the bridge. Pretty sure this is state land highway right away.
    You were on the highway right-of-way, but you had to cross Ahtna land to get there.

    The only easement on the north side of the bridge goes left by the dumpster and then straight to the river. It's marked by poles and signs.

    So when you kept going to the left to camp on the highway right-of-way, you trespassed on Ahtna land before you got there.

    Their brochure is not online as far as I can find, but their large maps are.

    Here's a dinky snip of the area:

    Can't tell anything from this view.

    Perhaps someone can get a hold of the brochure from the Ahtna guys, scan it, and post it.

  8. #8

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    I stick to access roads and don't camp on AHTNA land. I camp below the highwater mark and on the highway right of way depending on what is open. I was told they didn't have any forms in their box when we were down there, but I wouldn't have known otherwise because I won't pay them a dime and don't check for their forms. Been going down there for 24 seasons now and never had a conversation with anybody from AHTNA or had anything put on my windshield or in camp.

  9. #9

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    Yeah, when we were there this year the armed security guys did a sweep before the Board members made a visit.

    They were nice, we were nice, but such bad feelings...

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    Member Grayling Slayer's Avatar
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    I will gladly pay when they develop the land, provide basic facilities and a fish cleaning station.
    "I'd rather be fishing!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerod
    I won't pay them a dime
    y u no pay?

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    Member BIGAKSTUFF's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gr8fl View Post
    You were on the highway right-of-way, but you had to cross Ahtna land to get there.

    The only easement on the north side of the bridge goes left by the dumpster and then straight to the river. It's marked by poles and signs.

    So when you kept going to the left to camp on the highway right-of-way, you trespassed on Ahtna land before you got there.

    Their brochure is not online as far as I can find, but their large maps are.

    Here's a dinky snip of the area:

    Can't tell anything from this view.

    Perhaps someone can get a hold of the brochure from the Ahtna guys, scan it, and post it.
    Ok, so I had called the land patrol officer down there and talked to him about the above map. In it, you can see the whole flood plane between the bridge and the Kotsina is apparently 'free' land. (not red). I asked him about this specifically, "On the AHTNA website, the map shows that flood plane as normal, not red.....does this mean its not AHTNA land?" I asked. He said "Uh, we have been meaning to get that map changed...but it is AHTNA land."

    So you're telling me law abiding people utilizing maps created on your website to show what is trespass and what is not.....are using maps that are not current or correct??!!! If that is displayed incorrectly, what else is? what a crock
    The Second Amendment.......Know it, love it, support it.

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    Member Grayling Slayer's Avatar
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    After they track down my name and address from my license plate and file a civil complaint for trespassing and not paying them $15 I will bring a copy of their map from their website.
    "I'd rather be fishing!"

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    Member akiceman25's Avatar
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    Can we add the 4 wheeler trail from O'Brian creek to Haley creek to this thread...

    There are those that say Ahtna can fine you for walking down the cliff to fish.... While others say the state owns it but Ahtna just claims to own it.

    While I was cleaning fish at O'Brian creek last year I was approached and politely threatened by Ahtna security. He was in plain clothes and failed to introduce himself and asked how far in I went. Trying to preserve 'my spot' I told him "a couple miles in". At which point he told me about his affiliation with Ahtna and said "Lucky I didn't bring my 4 wheeler today, If I'da caught ya you'da got a good fine".

    I realize there's much signage in place. But what's the truth???
    I am serious... and don't call me Shirley.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KM2K7sV-K74

  15. #15

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    They try to claim land in Broad Pass that they don't own as well.

    AHTNA doesn't know where their land begins and ends, but they toss out dummy tickets as often as they care to go down there and act like they give two squirts about those grounds. They could make a lot of money off of this place if they managed it right and provided proper facilities and maintenance. After the games they played with the O'Brien Creek area, I lost a lot of respect for how they conduct the "management" of "their" lands. I use those terms very loosely.

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    Member Grayling Slayer's Avatar
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    I think that they just run around threatening people and take whatever money they can collect.
    "I'd rather be fishing!"

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grayling Slayer View Post
    I think that they just run around threatening people and take whatever money they can collect.
    Also known as dummy tickets... only the dummy's pay them. No offense to anybody that got suckered in the past. Some boys up in Barrow are real good at those.

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    so any update on where it is open to camp? The map is not really clear on the north side of the bridge, it shows AHTNA land like in the drive lane but state land? down on the river flats, several years ago i got a note saying that i had to pay and that i had tresspassed while parked down on the river flats out in the middle of the flats, just a scam?
    last year we camped downstream of the bridge and had no problems, it looks like the maps call that area out as AHTNA land.
    anybody have a more black and white answer? maybe a better map?

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  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by BIGAKSTUFF View Post
    Ok, so I had called the land patrol officer down there and talked to him about the above map. In it, you can see the whole flood plane between the bridge and the Kotsina is apparently 'free' land. (not red). I asked him about this specifically, "On the AHTNA website, the map shows that flood plane as normal, not red.....does this mean its not AHTNA land?" I asked. He said "Uh, we have been meaning to get that map changed...but it is AHTNA land." .....
    This is why it's difficult to deal with supposed land owners/controllers without documentation. Lot's of scammers will outright lie to get people to leave, or will claim "ownership" or control of public lands in order to keep people out of their honey holes. It goes way beyond large native landowners.

    I'm quite familiar with trespass law. I was part of a group that actually trespassed on purpose for a specific legal goal, and we did so after meetings with multiple lawyers, and putting a legal strategy together before doing the deed. Criminal trespass in Alaska has a very unique legal feature: you are not criminally trespassing until (1) the land owner tells you to leave, and if you refuse, (2) a sworn law enforcement officer instructs you to leave and you refuse. THEN you can be arrested for criminal trespass.

    I try to do my homework before engaging in outdoors activities in order to respect people's private property. But I will not be hoodwinked or intimidated to leave what I believe to be public lands anymore.

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