Results 1 to 17 of 17

Thread: Old rimfire case

  1. #1
    Moderator LuJon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Palmer, AK
    Posts
    11,415

    Default Old rimfire case

    A buddy was out in one of the coastal communities and found a neat old rimfire case with no markings. Kind of curious if anyone had a guess about where it originated.



  2. #2
    Member mainer_in_ak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Delta Junction
    Posts
    4,078

    Default

    would be nice to see some measurements to make a guess, as the case by itself gives little dimensional perspective. Put a set of calipers inside the case mouth, what caliber? What length.

    Could be an old .50 springfield(56-50 spencer). I just dunno.

  3. #3
    Moderator LuJon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Palmer, AK
    Posts
    11,415

    Default

    Yeah, I didn't think about scale at the time and didn't have calipers available. I figure the cal is probably 44 or 45 and the case is only around an inch long.

  4. #4

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LuJon View Post
    Yeah, I didn't think about scale at the time and didn't have calipers available. I figure the cal is probably 44 or 45 and the case is only around an inch long.
    Just going by scale, I'd bet on the 38 Long or 44 Long, or if larger, the 56-50. The lack of headstamp kinda throws me. COW shows an H headstamp in most of their drawings, and notes production ended in the 1920's.

    But here's the trick- CIL in Canada continued loading lots of larger rimfires up into the 60's and early 70's. I sold them at the store I ran back then in a variety of lengths in 25, 32 and 38 cal. I don't recall if CIL loaded a 44, but we didn't stock them if they did. But here's the puzzler- Best I recall CIL had a C headstamp.

  5. #5
    Member The Kid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Los Anchorage
    Posts
    1,089

    Default

    I would guess 44 Henry, 66 Winchesters and possibly Henry repeating rifles had two pronged firing pins for more positive ignition on rimfire cases. The 44 Henry flat was about an inch long and very popular in it's day. I believe the 66 was even produced after the turn of the century, and the 44 rimfire was it's only chambering.

  6. #6

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The Kid View Post
    ...66 Winchesters and possibly Henry repeating rifles had two pronged firing pins for more positive ignition on rimfire cases....
    Bingo. Very good call.

  7. #7

    Default

    Not saying it isn't the Henry but I can't tell if the square at about 11:30 on the top pic is from a firing pin or not. If the case is an inch long, that looks like a large firing pin! The indentations at 5:00 don't look quite "even".
    Mike
    Mike
    www.alaskaatvclub.org
    There is a faster way off the mountain, might hurt a little though.

  8. #8
    Moderator LuJon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Palmer, AK
    Posts
    11,415

    Default

    There are 2 firing pin strikes that are the same size. If it was indexed properly they would be at about 10 and 2. In the pic the top one only looks bigger due to shadowing.

    My buddy is out of town right now but hopefully when he gets back I can get some measurements.

  9. #9
    New member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    North Pole
    Posts
    903

    Default

    I can tell you that's not a 56-50 Spencer as I relic hunt and dig them all the time out in Arizona.Also it is not a Winchester/Henry as the two firing pin marks are not right.As Ive dug a bunch of those also.Your casing here if you notice the right firing pin strike is weaker than the other one.This was due to a weak strike leading to a misfire and what the shooter did was pulled it/ejected the cartridge, rotated it and fired it again thus being successful the second time.
    I have a Henry around here that was misfired and rotated like 8 times or there a bouts,I forget.Just from what I can see here Im going to say that its a .44.
    Also looking thru my Book: Archaeological Perspectives on the Battle of the Little Bighorn I compared two similar looking firing pin marks and yours is close to the model 1872 Colt open top and the Ballard.on a side note and quick internet search shows that Marlin eventually ended up with the Ballard rights and produced the ballard and offered over 20 models between 1875-1891.Daniel

  10. #10
    Member stevelyn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Fairbanksan in Aleutian Hell
    Posts
    1,316

    Default

    It also appears to be a copper case. Copper was used until well after the Little Bighorn battle when they found out that it wasn't that great for cartridge cases.
    Now what ?

  11. #11

    Default

    Without any scale I'm going to guess 44 Henry flat (rimfire) with 2 fireing pins. They made factory ammo for it up until WWII and then small lot runs until the late 60's or 70's.
    " Americans will never need the 2nd Amendment, until the government tries to take it away."

    On the road of life..... Pot holes keep things interesting !

  12. #12
    Supporting Member iofthetaiga's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Tanana Valley AK
    Posts
    7,217

    Default

    LuJon, I take it it's not in your possession(?), but any chance you might get some measurements? If it's in the .44-.45 caliber range, then it looks to be maybe just a tad over an inch long, to my eye. Too long to be a 44 Henry rimfire, according to COTW. Plenty of other choices in that caliber range tho. And given where it was located, perhaps it's not even of American origin.
    ...he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods & errors. ~Thomas Jefferson
    I would rather have a mind opened by wonder than one closed by belief. ~Gerry Spence
    The last thing Alaska needs is another bigot. ~member Catch It
    #Resist

  13. #13
    Moderator LuJon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Palmer, AK
    Posts
    11,415

    Default

    No the cartridge is not in my possession. I have mentioned it to the owner a few times trying to get measurements but he has been busy putting up fish and getting ready for a long work trip. I am not sure when I will get a chance to take another look at the case but I am sure the opportunity will come up and I will at least get some scale pics.

  14. #14
    Moderator LuJon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Palmer, AK
    Posts
    11,415

    Default

    Well luck is with it on this one and I got some measurements and more info.

    The round was found on St Paul in the area of the fur seal rookerie

    Rim diameter .511
    case oal .998
    inside dia case mouth .415
    outside diameter .446

    clearly the case is pretty darn old and a little beat up but these should be pretty close. Could this be a Russian or Euro round? The case does appear to be a high copper content or all copper.

  15. #15

    Default

    It probably would have been firing a heeled bullet, like a 22. Where the bullet is the same diameter as the case and the bullet base is reduced to the case ID. Don't have a COW in hand but the case may have stretched in all dimensions on firing as the chamber was probably erroded somewhat due to corrosive ammo and inclimate weather where the case was found. Lots of US firearms were exported to Europe until the end of the first WW. Many were chambered for European rounds many were shipped as American rounds and the ammo was given metric names as an identifier.
    " Americans will never need the 2nd Amendment, until the government tries to take it away."

    On the road of life..... Pot holes keep things interesting !

  16. #16
    Supporting Member iofthetaiga's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Tanana Valley AK
    Posts
    7,217

    Default

    The only thing in my COTW that seems a possibility is an early version 41 Long. I've no idea what the Russian seal hunters might have been packing.
    ...he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods & errors. ~Thomas Jefferson
    I would rather have a mind opened by wonder than one closed by belief. ~Gerry Spence
    The last thing Alaska needs is another bigot. ~member Catch It
    #Resist

  17. #17
    Moderator
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Midwest
    Posts
    4,431

    Default

    The 44 Henry cartridge dimensions are; case length .875" to .900" depending on when it was made.
    Bullet diameter was .446" with rebated heel, like a 22 rimfire, the case diameter was about .460" at the mouth.
    the Rim diameter was .518". The earlier version, Henry's original was .875" long, loaded with a 200 grain Round nose bullet.
    Later when Winchester chambered it in the 1866 model it was loaded with a 216 grain flat nose and the case was slightly longer. Both S&W and Colt chambered revolvers for it, I have a Remington derringer in the caliber but the most famous was the Henry and the Win 66. Ammo was made up into the 1930's 20 century stuff is brass cases, older is copper.

    The .998" length is a little long but still may be one of the loads for the 44 rimfire. The other dims seem very close.
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •