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Thread: Osagian Missourian Outboard Selection

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    Default Osagian Missourian Outboard Selection

    I'm getting ready to purchase an osagian missourian square stern canoe. For the outboard I'm considering a mercury 4 stroke 6 h.p. which weighs about 57 lbs. or a mercury 4 stroke 9.9 h.p. which weighs about 83 lbs. and 91 lbs. with the electric start option. I'd like to get the 9.9 merc electric start. The canoe is 44" wide, 18" wide at the transom, weighs 113 lbs. with a 1000 lb. capacity and 17' long with a 5 h.p. rating. The canoe used to be rated for an 8 h.p. outboard but the rules have changed not the canoe. Is the 9.9 too much motor weight and power wise? How about the other options? I understand I'll probably need a hydrofoil and an extra long fuel hose to keep the gas tank in the bow. I'll be using it for fishing reservoirs and big rivers solo or with another person and carrying a moderate payload. Curious to learn from your experiences. Thanks.

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    where do you live and what do you plan to use the canoe for?

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    Hey Mainer, I live in Kansas. The majority of use will be on reservoirs and small lakes, a bit of river work too. Mainly just a fishing boat. I was just reading your report on the 12 h.p. copperhead. Now you've got me thinking about a 6.5 h.p. copperhead for the missourian.

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    I'll probably be loaded down with at most 700 to 800 pounds. on average probably 400-500 lbs.

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    I almost bought that canoe when I got my Esquif Cargo. I run a 6 hp 2 cyl Johnson 2 stroke on my Grumman 17' and it flies. You "must" have someone or 150lbs up front to get it to act right....gas tank won't do it. The Cargo has a 9.9 Merc 2 stroke and I run it at half throttle most of the time. I have run a 5 hp Johnson 2 stroke on the Grumman and it does fine as does my 3.3 Merc 2 stroke....but it shakes more as a one lunger.

    I'd go with the 6hp 4 stroke since it is lighter and easier to handle. My 9.9 is a fair amount heavier and harder to handle by myself.

    Mainer has me thinking about one of those mud motor things too....I even bought a 6.5 hp with the idea of building one....we'll see.
    Somewhere along the way I have lost the ability to act politically correct. If you should find it, please feel free to keep it.

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    I put an 8hp 2 stroke Mercury on the Osagian that I purchased last year, 79 lbs. if I remember right. My use is in protected marine waters in SE Alaska. Good amount of power, and the nose stays down with a bucket of rocks up front. There is one good sized tidal river that I run from time to time, and the boat runs pretty shallow without a lift at trolling speed.

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    Default Osage Cargo

    Been running a Osage Cargo for years. They call them Missourians now. I run a 4.5 Mercury on mine and with just me in the boat and 100lb of lead right in the nose it does great with about 10mph over flat water. Your not going to get that hull design to go much faster, the stern will just dig in with more horsepower, nothing there to plane. Where a larger motor is handy is when you're carring more weight. With a full grown person or a load in the boat I swap out the little Merc and put on my 9 1/2 Evinrude and then still get about the same speed, about 10 to 12mph.

    Derpends on how much weight you're pushing. A smaller motor is fine if you are by yourself but 2 or 3 people or a load your need more horsepower. Be careful putting too much weight on the back. With those rigs it's all about the trim.

    If I was limited to just one motor it would be a late 80s to mid 90s 8hp OMC or something very similar. They're great motors even if the are a shearpin drive. Zack

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    Thanks for all the replies! I'm kind of leaning more towards a surface drive mud motor now. Makes more sense because with it I could go anywhere and in Kansas it would be quite handy. The only issue I have is NO REVERSE on the smaller models and only a couple companies make mud motors with that feature and only on 20 + h.p. motors. BUT... I talked to orion outboards today. They make a nice range of smaller surface drives. A 6.5 and a 9 hp that I think would be ideal. The 6.5 hp weighs I believe 75 lbs and the 9 weighs 100 lbs. With electric start. Unlike copperhead motors these orions have neutral. The copperheads are direct drive. Here's the beauty part though. They are planning on making a retrofit reverse system next year. Plus the 6.5 up to 22 horse motors use the same mounts so you can interchange any engine in that range. Would be nice to have a 6.5 and 9 on hand that I can swap out whenever I would need to. They are about 95% sure they will have a retrofit available next year. Too good to be true? I hope not. If you're interested in a small light surface drive call orion and express your interest and give them a little more motivation. I know mud motors with reverse are in demand there's just not a good supply. Thankfully Orion ob's wants to meet that demand. I might get a 6.5. Need to see one first. I'm sure I would be happy with its performance on a missourian then hopefully be able to retrofit a reverse feature on it and if I decide I need more power occasionally, buy a 9 h.p motor and do the old switcheroo whenever need be.

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    I have osagian missourian with a lift and have the 5hp and 9.8 hp. I use the 5hp when fishing on small streams and lakes and the 9.8 when traveling on rivers with a load. The 5 hp works well as trolling motor.

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    I'm curious and inexperienced in the area of lifted outboards. How shallow can you run a missourian with a lifted outboard? Does the prop have to be below the bottom of the boat to get a good bite of water? A lift is something I need to consider as well.

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    I used to run a single cylinder merc 5 hp, and like others have stated, put some weight in the canoe that thing turns into a tug boat. Not the case with the smaller twin cylinder two stroke outboards. I used to run a 6 horse suzuki two stroke, and it had the torque to push a load. I usually ran it, because the 9.8 tohatsu (same exact motor as a merc), was too heavy to get started, and jump in the boat in fast whitewater.

    I usually left the 9.8 on the Yukon, to get me back up river. You won't be trolling with the 9.8, too fast. Consider an electric trolling motor on a side mount in conjunction with the 9.8.

    17 ft. square stern is my bread n butter work boat. I always use it when the dragging gets shallow. I don't think yah need a Surface Drive, but get one if you wish.

    There is a gentleman I talked to a few days ago. He's an airboater with an Osagian as a back up boat for skinny water. I think he's gonna hang a 6.5 copperhead off the back of his moose boat.

    Here's some chat about the Orion Vs. The Copperhead on Mud Motor Talk:

    http://www.mudmotortalk.com/mmt_v2/v...hp?f=5&t=19506

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    Quote Originally Posted by dcbriggeman View Post
    I'm curious and inexperienced in the area of lifted outboards. How shallow can you run a missourian with a lifted outboard?
    Eight or nine inches. You can raise the motor up till to the point that the intake is still picking up water.

    Does the prop have to be below the bottom of the boat to get a good bite of water?
    Yes, for running wide open in deep water. I only raise my lift when in skinnny water at slower speeds, picking my way up or down something. At that time the prop is a little above the transom line and can't get a 'good bite' (No wake)


    A lift is something I need to consider as well.
    Maybe.
    Look at back threads on this forum. Lots of pics and coversation to look at. Pics of my lift are in there somewhere. Zack

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    Thanks for all the input guys. It's been really helpful. I think I'd be happy with a 6 h.p. four stroker. Sounds like a good match for most of my needs. It'll be exciting to see the development of these sd motors. A lightweight 9 horse sd with reverse would be a good secondary motor for river trips and big loads. I'm just going to wait before I pull the trigger on an sd. I feel like dropping a load of cash on a new sd, with the relative young age of the industry, would be like buying a new computer. There's probably going to be something better next year! Though I'm sure around Kansas the resale would be pretty high. I really like the looks of the gator tail motors with reverse. I might just enjoy my missourian with a 6 h.p. outboard and possibly in the future get a 16 ft. jon paired with a gtr23 and use the 6 as a kicker. I'd also need to get a bigger truck before that could happen. In Kansas a surface drive would be indispensable. Take for instance, the Kansas river, I don't think there's any way you could get up and down most of that river with an outboard. You would probably be better off with an ATV! Thanks again! I'll share pics and impressions of my rig whenever they become available. All the best.

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    any time cavation plate is at the water level or above you loose alot of push from the motor, to get max push out of outboard motors the plate should set below the water, you will get some push from it when it is up out of the water , but 2 things will happen
    # 1 you will go very slow no bite from the prop
    # 2 the water pump will melt if out of water very long there is a plastic housing in side of most outboard motor's you can do it
    for a short time 3 or 4 MIN won't hurt but
    this is on water cooled ENG's

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    I found a used 1995 model Missourian in Oklahoma. It has the 8 hp rating on the capacity plate. I then tracked down a yamaha 8 hp 2 stroke. I'm very very pleased with this setup. The 8 horse 2 stroke is about 60 pounds and thus very portable and is indeed a perfect blend between power,weight and fuel efficiency. The canoe came with a raised transom, simply a 2x4 with an old stop sign bent around it and bolted to the transom. I can run some really shallow water with that configuration although it does tend to cavitate a bit much so I took it off for now. A lift would be sweet. I also added a rockhopper and hydrofoil. With a 3.5 gallon tank under the middle seat and me in the rear, the canoe rides really well with a slightly raised bow. Perfect. Thanks again for all the input and helping out a newbie. Happy power canoeing!

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    # 1 get a long fuel hose an move the tank forward but the bulbe on your end , this will cause a little problem as when you start out there could be AIR in the line an you need to figure out how to get the air out on your own [ it can be dun ]
    # 2 the transom should be droped down some it won't take much play with it in 1 inch stepts messure it an then put a new one of the hight you need'
    # 3 unless you run a fair amount of shallow streams just get out an pull
    lifts are good but for what you talk about I don't think you will need it un less you just want it

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sid View Post
    # 1 get a long fuel hose an move the tank forward but the bulbe on your end , this will cause a little problem as when you start out there could be AIR in the line an you need to figure out how to get the air out on your own [ it can be dun ]
    I added a dozen or so feet of gas line to my setup and did as you describe. Never a problem with air in the line. Squeezing the bulb will get the gas all the way from the bow to the transom to my engine. I do make sure that I have stabil in the gas that ends up in the line; maybe no air gets into mine?

    When I'm done for the day I unplug the gas line from the motor and run her until she's out of gas to clear the carb. I probably don't need to do this, but habits (that seem to work) die hard.

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    Yes, you can find the sweet spot by lopping off an inch or so from a 2x4 raised transom and by leaving the 2x4 longer i.e. sticking out to one side about a foot it makes a great trolling motor mount if it suits you. I have a lengthy fuel line. I can place the tank anywhere depending on the load and positioning requirements. I agree, if the going gets shallow just get out and pull her with a rope!

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    <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<, forget it

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    the reason for air in my hose might be , is 3 reasons

    # 1 my hose is 25 FT long so I can weave it in amoung my cargo no tight hose , an the tank is as far forward as I can get it ,
    # 2 my prime buble is up near me [ the motor ]
    # 3 I take my hose off my tank when it is in my truck easyer to store in back end ,

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