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Thread: New Tikka .330 WM copper fouling, inaccuracy...

  1. #1
    Member mossyhorn's Avatar
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    Default New Tikka .330 WM copper fouling, inaccuracy...

    I bought a brand new tikka .300 win mag and shot it for the second time today. The first time I discounted accuracy due to a very windy day and only shot about 12 rounds through the gun. I'm also shooting federal premium nosler 180gr accubonds.

    Today I shot and the first group was about 2 inches at 100 yards, shooting from a led sled on a bench. At 200 yards. I ended up shooting 5 times with three rounds in about 3 inches straight across inline with eachother. Between those 3 shots there were two shots that were low and right about 3 inches away.

    At 300 yards rounds were not even close and grouped about 12 inches. By this time I'd shot about 20 rounds and I also tried to let the barrel cool down between shots.

    I finally gave up and packed it in, thinking I need to start fresh with a clean cool barrel. Upon getting home and beginning to clean my gun, I noticed a pretty heavy copper fouling on the rifleing when looking down the muzzle. I know I need some better copper solvent but I couldn't get it all out, the patches are nearly clean and there's still a significant amount of copper in the bore from what I can see.

    Scope is also tight with no movement, as I dabbed a tiny bead of red nail polish where the scope meets the back ring to see if there's any cracking or separation. I had a rock solid rest and felt like I was making good shots but it was all over the place at 300. Is it likely that it's mostly from the major copper build up?

    And also, how did I get so much copper build up from so few rounds? I'm not experienced with rifles but this seemed ridiculous. I've got an old 7 mag that I can't see a hint of fouling and I don't have to do much to clean it. For being a new rifle, it sure seems like an awful amount of work to keep it copper free. Is there anything I can do to prevent so much copper fouling?

  2. #2
    Member hodgeman's Avatar
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    Copper fouling varies barrel to barrel...TIkka barrels are generally quite good and well finished. I'd clean the copper out with a good copper solvent and try again another day. I have one rifle that copper fouls badly with Barnes bullets but not Speers or Noslers so I can only assume the hardness of the alloy/jacket material is a factor as well.

    After a few boxes the barrel might smooth out and it will cease to be a significant issue.

    Shots walking across the target sounds like a scope issue though...not so much a fouling issue.
    "I do not deal in hypotheticals. The world, as it is, is vexing enough..." Col. Stonehill, True Grit

  3. #3

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    Just a wild shot here but being a new gun I have to add this-in 2006 I bought a NIB Winchester Coyote .223 WSSM. Luckily to pull a 2 foot group at 100. Get the gun home and discover the action screws are at best hand tight. Not even, really. Point? Give it a good solid lookover.

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    I had a Tikka t-3 and have found it and other to be one of the finest rifles out of the box i have ever had. I have a couple 300wm but for the life of me I can't remember what the best bullet grain was. Fed prem are pretty good rounds so I would think that maybe look at a couple diff bullet weights and stay at a 100m until you dial in to the 1/2 moa. The 308cal that I had would do 3/8moa all day long with cheap Federal ammo so it might be something there with the weight of the bullet for group.
    Copper fouling is a diff animal I believe that all the Tikka barrels are lapped so it should have a good polish. Again as suggested before do a good once over and cleaning go back to the 25m and shoot for group only, then once you have closed down the group move out to the 100m line and see what she is doing. I instruct firearms down range and a lot of time when we are trying to fix a problem it is easier to do that up close and then push out once you have tightened the group.
    Good luck

    Sweepint
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    Member mossyhorn's Avatar
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    I will follow up with all suggestions, thank you. I did tighten the action screws as I had to remove them to get to the trigger to adjust it. After the first time shooting it, it was extremely heavy so I brought it down a bit to make it a cleaner more crisp pull.

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    This will cut right to the heart, but a rifle that shoots 2 inches at a hundred yards is not a poor shooter and consdering your description it may well do better with a few tweaks--ammo, trigger (which you've already done), bedding, etc. That same rifle printing 12 inch groups at three hundred yards is not displaying the rifle's flaws IMO, but rather is the product of the shooter's technique. Before I went too far searching for rifle issues I'd accept some responsibility for the poorer shooting and spend the necessary time to increase my proficiency. Understanding the kind of accuracy YOU are capable of producing will go a long ways in fixing this issue and for a lot of the shooting world your groups aren't out of the ordinary......YMMV.
    Foolishness is a moral category, not an intellectual one.

  7. #7

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    I have the T3 lite in 300 WSM and it shoots great but I have to let the barrell cool between shots if I want to meet their 1 inch claim. Mine hates accubonds and loves Barnes because of the amount of bullet jump I suspect. The Barnes are jumping .110 thousands just to engrave in the rifling due to mag length restriction.

    Anyway, shooting Barnes had me looking for a way to clean my rifle. The best thing you can do is go buy a can of WIPE OUT. That stuff is like magic. Get done shooting, run a brush and a few patches with your current solvent down the barrell to get out the majority of the powder and then spray the barrel full of wipe out and let it sit until the next morning. Run a tight patch through again and you are usually done. That's the best way I have figured out to clean my rifle barrell and it has really taken the pain out of cleaning.

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    Member mossyhorn's Avatar
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    Shooting technique is something I've tried to do everything I know to do but as a newer rifle shooter, if im
    making mistakes then I don't know about them and therefore can't correct them. I know one person that's an avid shooter and was going to ask to see if he'd come watch me shoot and see how I'm doing.


    Ill try some Barnes as well.

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    If there is a question of shooter technique, you could always ask someone else to shoot a couple of rounds and see how they do ... of course one should ask someone of proven abilities!! Good luck.
    "Actions speak louder than words - 'nough said"

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    Tikka's have an outstanding reputation for out of the box accuracy BUT any mass produced barrel can end up with a tight or rough spot - I've acquired and broken in at least a dozen T3's for myself or friends and did have a 338 win mag that would not shoot anything I loaded or factory worth a darn - you say the trigger was "quite heavy" out of the box as well ?? THAT is not something I've ever heard of before, normally they will break in the 3# range with no creep - where did you get the rifle ? is there a possiblity it really wasn't NIB and had been fired and not cleaned after ? and with a 300 win mag a T3 with the out of the box recoil pad will test any shooter's mettle on the bench - another thing to check is that the action/barrel is actually seated into the recoil lug, the lug stays in the stock and sometimes you have to fidget quite a bit to get it to drop into the recess properly - I bought a used 270 WSM a couple of years back that came to me that way and I'm convinced that is why I got the rifle for $400, the seller thought it was screwed up rather than just simply not put back together right, you might check that carefully (if you haven't encountered that before it would be quite easy to miss as it will go back together and tighten albeit not in the right place) Of course that would not explain the copper fouling though ......

  11. #11
    Member mossyhorn's Avatar
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    Bought it new from sportsmans warehouse. Yes the stock recoil pad was tough on the shoulder, a limb saver pad helped a bunch. Today I got some copper solvent and after some doing, I got clean patches.

    Ya the first time I shot, the trigger just was tough to pull so I lightened it up which was easy enough. Putting it back together was tough as you said. It just didn't want to fit back together but I got it and made sure it was all seated correctly.

    Gonna try shooting again tomorrow. Thanks.

  12. #12
    Member mossyhorn's Avatar
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    Update...

    I shot today after cleaning the gun out with a copper solvent. It ended up shooting great. I also shot off of sand bags instead of a sled which I think helped, I felt I could get on the rifle a bit more naturally. I also noticed that the rifle didn't accumulate copper fouling like it did last time so maybe it needed some break in?

    I got 1 inch groups at 100 yards to start with, had some holes touching on some groups. I also tried a bunch of different rounds and found the federal premium accubond 180's worked the best, even better than the nosler custom trophy grade stuff.

    At 200 yards, I again had about 1 inch, 3-shot groups with holes touching in some groups. At 300 yards, I ended up getting about 3-4 inch groups and was actually pretty happy with this. I think to better this group, I just need more practice.

    Thanks for the help...

  13. #13

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    Glad you quit shooting with the lead sled, looks like things are coming together.
    A GUN WRITER NEEDS:
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    Don't know about you mossy horn,

    But I just waged war on copper fouling so thick, that it took 3 applications of wipeout, with the first being an over nighter, the second being a two hour soak, and the third another two hour soak.

    I did a range session shooting about 20 Barnes bullets after firing 20 speer hot-cors. I think when you combine the two coppers......it gets ugly! Thank goodness for wipe out. Just don't leave it in the bore or chamber like they tell yah to. I leave a loaded revolver in the house, and somehow, it ate into the brass cases, they came out with green-blue blotches.

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    glad to hear that it's all coming together !!

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    Member mossyhorn's Avatar
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    Ya I went through 3 full cleanings before I got all the copper out.

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    with moly-coated bullets I never have any copper fouling at all - one run with wipe-out or Montana cream, several patches, a tetra oil brushing and a couple of swabbing out patches and I'm good to go again - been doin it that way since '91 - sometimes I'll be trying 3 or 4 different bullets in one session

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by back country View Post
    with moly-coated bullets I never have any copper fouling at all - one run with wipe-out or Montana cream, several patches, a tetra oil brushing and a couple of swabbing out patches and I'm good to go again - been doin it that way since '91 - sometimes I'll be trying 3 or 4 different bullets in one session
    Now all you have to worry about is the moly build up in the throat, and you can count on the fact that moly does not stop carbon impregnation or copper impregnation, and many times what people think is moly not allowing copper to build up or carbon ring developing in the throat is the fact that all the moly is not coming out when cleaning which coats and protects the residing carbon and copper. Enough moly bullets through your gun and when accuracy leaves you will have one tough mess to clean out or worse the carbon ring that is developing around the throat will finally tear away and take some of the throat with it.
    A GUN WRITER NEEDS:
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