Results 1 to 18 of 18

Thread: swaged down .366" 286 grain woodleighs to .358"

  1. #1
    Member mainer_in_ak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Delta Junction
    Posts
    4,078

    Default swaged down .366" 286 grain woodleighs to .358"

    I finally took some woodleighs and swaged them down to .358". It was as easy as could be. It took about 20 minutes to do a box of 50. The swaging was so light, that I wondered if they even resized. This swaging is far less than what the rifling would do to a bullet......all of .008". The lead tips grew slightly, and I hooked each bullet to a drill press and took each tip down until they all weighted the same: 285 grains. I used a piece of metal that had a round dimple and put a piece of 100 grit sand paper over the dimple. As each spot on a piece of sand paper was plugged with lead, I simply moved it. Every bullet went on the scale that was pre-set for 285 grains. This took an additional 20 minutes.

    Compared to the 250 grain hot-cor, it's actually much shorter, and takes up less case capacity. The cannalure seems to be in the right place for my rifle with an overall length of 2.830"

    I'm hoping to achieve 2,300 fps with this bullet in the .358 Winchester. If I did, than it would be faster than every anemic 9.3x62 mauser factory load that I've ever chronographed. If you want to push a big bullet in the .358" Winchester, this roundnosed bullet is the way to go because you'll have plenty of case capacity to work up a full power load. I'll keep a pocket of them with me for a bear protection load sighted into the open sights.

    Attached Images Attached Images

  2. #2
    Member Float Pilot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Kachemak Bay Alaska
    Posts
    4,218

    Default

    I like the A-Frame 280 grain .358 caliber bullets.
    The old Barnes 275s were great and the Alaskan Bullet company 275s are OK....

    But I am only able to push them to 2,400 + fps with a 22 inch barrel in a 350 Rem Mag... So I wonder how the 358 win will do...
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Floatplane,Tailwheel and Firearms Instructor- Dragonfly Aero
    Experimental Hand-Loader, NRA Life Member
    http://site.dragonflyaero.com

  3. #3
    Member mainer_in_ak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Delta Junction
    Posts
    4,078

    Default

    Float,

    I really did consider the 280 grain swift because I really like the 300 grain Swifts for my 9.3x62, but I feel they were just too long for the little .358 Win. case. When pushing bullets of this size in the little case, it was (in my opinion) necessary to go with a roundnosed bullet. I'll pm yah after the range report.

  4. #4
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    SwampView AK, Overlooking Mt. Mckinley and Points Beyond.
    Posts
    8,813

    Default

    I've never heard anything bad about swaging down jacketed bullets, BUT I wouldn't get excited until I tried them for accuracy.

    Isn't it possible that this damages the bullets? I dunno though, I reckon they were swaged when they were manufactured.

    Smitty of the North
    Walk Slow, and Drink a Lotta Water.
    Has it ever occurred to you, that Nothing ever occurs to God? Adrien Rodgers.
    You can't out-give God.

  5. #5
    Member mainer_in_ak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Delta Junction
    Posts
    4,078

    Default

    Geeze, I sure hope not! I'm getting real tired of load development. If this bullet prints 2" groups at 100 yds......I'll be happy. I'm hoping this is the year where all my load development is done, and I will never have to work up another recipe.

  6. #6
    Member Float Pilot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Kachemak Bay Alaska
    Posts
    4,218

    Default

    What is the rifling twist rate on your 358 Win?
    Floatplane,Tailwheel and Firearms Instructor- Dragonfly Aero
    Experimental Hand-Loader, NRA Life Member
    http://site.dragonflyaero.com

  7. #7
    Member mainer_in_ak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Delta Junction
    Posts
    4,078

    Default

    It's the standard twist rate for the .358 Win which is 1:12".

  8. #8
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    O'Fallon, MO
    Posts
    195

    Default

    Mainer, how did you swage them down? What equipment and dies did you use?

    I'm interested in swaging down some 350 Speer Mag-tips from .416 to .411 for my Warthog project that Murphy started on.

  9. #9
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    SwampView AK, Overlooking Mt. Mckinley and Points Beyond.
    Posts
    8,813

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mainer_in_ak View Post
    Geeze, I sure hope not! I'm getting real tired of load development. If this bullet prints 2" groups at 100 yds......I'll be happy. I'm hoping this is the year where all my load development is done, and I will never have to work up another recipe.
    I know whatcha mean. I been beatin my brains out tryin to get suitable loads for 2, 7x57. It gets OLD after awhile.

    Those people who own the (junke??) machines that check the balance of jacketed bullets, claim they can be damaged if you drop them on the floor.

    Smitty of the North
    Walk Slow, and Drink a Lotta Water.
    Has it ever occurred to you, that Nothing ever occurs to God? Adrien Rodgers.
    You can't out-give God.

  10. #10
    Member mainer_in_ak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Delta Junction
    Posts
    4,078

    Default

    I used a lee .358 resizer die and didn't experience any spring back. I think this is due to the fact that the Woodleighs are a bonded core. This isn't new. Back in 1989 (I could be wrong), Layne Simpson wrote an article about swaging down .366" foreign bullets for his then new 358 Shooting Times Alaskan. He used a .356" sizer die to finish off these bullets he swaged, because they didn't quite make it down to .358". I think he claimed something like .359".

    Anyhow, I used a .358" lee sizing die, and I also use Hornady Unique case lube. Again, this wasn't my idea, it came from the 1980's. I'll report back about velocity and group size.

  11. #11
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    SwampView AK, Overlooking Mt. Mckinley and Points Beyond.
    Posts
    8,813

    Default

    Thanks for that info, Mainer:

    Layne Simpson is my favorite gun writer.

    Smitty of the North
    Walk Slow, and Drink a Lotta Water.
    Has it ever occurred to you, that Nothing ever occurs to God? Adrien Rodgers.
    You can't out-give God.

  12. #12
    Member 1Cor15:19's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Dillingham, AK
    Posts
    2,482

    Default

    This is an interesting idea Mainer. I look forward to your shooting and hunting results. Do you intend to test this load's penetration? I'd be interested in how this load compares to other .358 projectiles, especially the 200 TTSX in overall penetration--it may be better, about the same or it could be a little less. Regardless, I'd like to see. I'm very willing to ship some 200 TTSXs your way for such a test.
    Foolishness is a moral category, not an intellectual one.

  13. #13

    Default

    I wrote to Barnes Bullets several years ago and connected with a guy named Ty Herring. I still have the saved email. I asked about doing this very task using a 9.3 mm 286 grain TSX bullet. I had asked about bridging the Barnes gap between a 225 grain TSX (the highest weight a .358 TSX bullet is available in) and the 9.3 mm TSX bullet in 286 grains. I inquired about swaging down the 9.3 mm bullet to .358 for use in a 358 Norma Magnum rifle. I was rather emphatically told not to do that. At the time the advice just did not set well with me, a nagging gut feeling that I was being fed a line of B.S. by some sales guy not real interested my question. I recall being told to shoot the 358 Barnes bullet in 225 grain and be satisfied with it. Strange comment. Other factors mitigated in life to conspire, resulting in my dropping the project. I eventually sold the rifle and I purchased a Winchester model 70 Extreme Weather in 338 Win Mag simply becuase I could get the heavier weight bullets in 338 easier than in 358. Now hearing Mainer's success at doing exactly what I had considered doing is a burr under my saddle and leaves a bad taste in my mouth toward the Barnes Bullet company.

    Good luck with that project Mainer.....glad to see it's working out. I hope the accuracy holds true....
    Yea though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for the shadow is mine and so is the valley. Thy Glock and thy M14 comfort me in days of civil unrest and terror

  14. #14

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ex1811 View Post
    I wrote to Barnes Bullets several years ago and connected with a guy named Ty Herring. I still have the saved email. I asked about doing this very task using a 9.3 mm 286 grain TSX bullet. I had asked about bridging the Barnes gap between a 225 grain TSX (the highest weight a .358 TSX bullet is available in) and the 9.3 mm TSX bullet in 286 grains. I inquired about swaging down the 9.3 mm bullet to .358 for use in a 358 Norma Magnum rifle. I was rather emphatically told not to do that. At the time the advice just did not set well with me, a nagging gut feeling that I was being fed a line of B.S. by some sales guy not real interested my question. I recall being told to shoot the 358 Barnes bullet in 225 grain and be satisfied with it. Strange comment. Other factors mitigated in life to conspire, resulting in my dropping the project. I eventually sold the rifle and I purchased a Winchester model 70 Extreme Weather in 338 Win Mag simply becuase I could get the heavier weight bullets in 338 easier than in 358. Now hearing Mainer's success at doing exactly what I had considered doing is a burr under my saddle and leaves a bad taste in my mouth toward the Barnes Bullet company.

    Good luck with that project Mainer.....glad to see it's working out. I hope the accuracy holds true....
    He may very well have had no idea what he was talking about, but it seems swaging an all copper bullet would be much more difficult than a lead core bullet. The only reason I can think of why they would say not to do it would be if the swaging somehow increased the bearing surface of the bullet and thus potentially increasing pressures. But then again, no load data would exist for said bullet so maybe that is a moot point.

  15. #15
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    welfare state of Alaska
    Posts
    5,153

    Default Swaging bullets..

    Swaging bullets up to a larger size is the norm - this is what happens when they are manufactured. The brass jacket is springy and tends to go back to its orginal shape or size while the soft lead is more dead and stays in its new size. Hence when you size up or swage bullets the jacket tends to shrink back towards its orginal size and grips the core.

    When you size down the lead core stays in the new smaller size while the jacket has the tendency to go back to its orginal larger size and springs back away from the core. With a bonded core you shouldn't get any seperation of the lead and jacket but on a non-bonded core you could get a seperation or gap.

    Probably a good idea to take a razor saw and cut a down sized bullet in half and check for core / jacket seperation especially on a non-bonded core or if you are reducing the size significantly.


    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty of the North View Post
    I've never heard anything bad about swaging down jacketed bullets, BUT I wouldn't get excited until I tried them for accuracy.

    Isn't it possible that this damages the bullets? I dunno though, I reckon they were swaged when they were manufactured.

    Smitty of the North
    Living the urban lifestyle so I can pay my way and for my family's needs, and support my country. And you?
    ".. ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" JFK

  16. #16
    Member mainer_in_ak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Delta Junction
    Posts
    4,078

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Cor15:19 View Post
    This is an interesting idea Mainer. I look forward to your shooting and hunting results. Do you intend to test this load's penetration? I'd be interested in how this load compares to other .358 projectiles, especially the 200 TTSX in overall penetration--it may be better, about the same or it could be a little less. Regardless, I'd like to see. I'm very willing to ship some 200 TTSXs your way for such a test.
    I'll keep yah in the loop Cor. I apologize, but I may not have any time to do a penetration test. I've got too much going on. The .358 will basically be a dual purpose cartridge for me because my 9.3 is a bit too hefty for hiking in the mountains. The 200 grain will be my mountain rifle load, and the 286 grain Weldcore will be my bear protection load while in the mountains, and also for moose. If I'm presented with a relatively close shot while moose hunting, I'll drop the scope (QRW rings), and toss a 286 grainer in the chamber. Same with grizzly, as they seem to be up in numbers where I hunt.

  17. #17

    Default

    I know you are tired of load work, but I suspect you will not be through after trying the swaged down bullet. I sure hope it works out for you and I will be looking forward to your results. I am fixing to do my last bit of load work with the 358Win just out of curiosity with the 225gr A-Frame and the 250gr A-Frame. Once finished reviewing these two bullets I will end load work for the 358Win and use the loads I have developed for the field. Good luck and as I said, I will be looking forward to your post.
    A GUN WRITER NEEDS:
    THE MIND OF A SCHOLAR
    THE HEART OF A CHILD
    THE HIDE OF A RHINOCEROS

  18. #18
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    SwampView AK, Overlooking Mt. Mckinley and Points Beyond.
    Posts
    8,813

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tvfinak View Post
    Swaging bullets up to a larger size is the norm - this is what happens when they are manufactured. The brass jacket is springy and tends to go back to its orginal shape or size while the soft lead is more dead and stays in its new size. Hence when you size up or swage bullets the jacket tends to shrink back towards its orginal size and grips the core.

    When you size down the lead core stays in the new smaller size while the jacket has the tendency to go back to its orginal larger size and springs back away from the core. With a bonded core you shouldn't get any seperation of the lead and jacket but on a non-bonded core you could get a seperation or gap.

    Probably a good idea to take a razor saw and cut a down sized bullet in half and check for core / jacket seperation especially on a non-bonded core or if you are reducing the size significantly.
    Thanks TV:

    I was thinking about separation betwixt jacket and core, which could conceivably effect both accuracy and terminal performance.

    I didn't have a mechanism though.

    If the elasticity is different in lead versus the jacket material, there's one right there.

    Thanks Again
    Smitty of the North
    Walk Slow, and Drink a Lotta Water.
    Has it ever occurred to you, that Nothing ever occurs to God? Adrien Rodgers.
    You can't out-give God.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •