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Thread: Latest Kenai Report... early run kings.

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    Member fishNphysician's Avatar
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    Default Latest Kenai Report... early run kings.

    Early Run Summary for Tue. Jun 5

    King salmon run update

    Through June 3 the cumulative values for all three indices of king salmon abundance are tracking well below average and below their respective minimum inseason management objectives. The daily DIDSON sonar passage estimate of king salmon for June 3 was 92 fish. The cumulative DIDSON sonar passage estimate through June 3 is 938 king salmon. Low run strength indices dictate that the run will continue to be monitored closely. If the numbers of early-run king salmon entering river run do not begin to improve significantly as determined by the indices of abundance and also monitored by DIDSON sonar, restrictive actions to the sport fishery may be necessary during June and into July to ensure adequate escapement of early-run king salmon.
    No inseason management actions are scheduled at this time.
    The next update is planned to be on Friday, June 8.


    Fishery Update


    Fishing effort is increasing however the catch rate of king salmon remains low and has declined since Wednesday, May 30. On average it is now taking guided anglers approximately 50 hours and unguided anglers about 58 hours to catch a king salmon. King salmon that have entered the river to date, as represented in angler catches and the department netting program, are mostly large, older fish. Early-run sockeye salmon, most of which are bound for the Russian River, continue to pass the sonar station. Hooligan passage has decreased recently.
    "Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." Zane Grey
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    The KeenEye MD

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    Member fishNphysician's Avatar
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    From Mat-Su streams all the way down to Anchor, it looks like Cook Inlet kings are in trouble from top to bottom for 2012. If there was ever a time to tread lightly on the resource, this is surely it.
    "Let every angler who loves to fish think what it would mean to him to find the fish were gone." Zane Grey
    http://www.piscatorialpursuits.com/uploads/UP12710.jpg
    The KeenEye MD

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    Quote Originally Posted by fishNphysician View Post
    Early Run Summary for Tue. Jun 5

    King salmon run update

    Through June 3 the cumulative values for all three indices of king salmon abundance are tracking well below average and below their respective minimum inseason management objectives. The daily DIDSON sonar passage estimate of king salmon for June 3 was 92 fish. The cumulative DIDSON sonar passage estimate through June 3 is 938 king salmon. Low run strength indices dictate that the run will continue to be monitored closely. If the numbers of early-run king salmon entering river run do not begin to improve significantly as determined by the indices of abundance and also monitored by DIDSON sonar, restrictive actions to the sport fishery may be necessary during June and into July to ensure adequate escapement of early-run king salmon.
    No inseason management actions are scheduled at this time.
    The next update is planned to be on Friday, June 8.


    Fishery Update


    Fishing effort is increasing however the catch rate of king salmon remains low and has declined since Wednesday, May 30. On average it is now taking guided anglers approximately 50 hours and unguided anglers about 58 hours to catch a king salmon. King salmon that have entered the river to date, as represented in angler catches and the department netting program, are mostly large, older fish. Early-run sockeye salmon, most of which are bound for the Russian River, continue to pass the sonar station. Hooligan passage has decreased recently.
    I'm telling you, we're in a world of hurt. If the runs don't improve the economy on the Kenai is going to take a huge hit.

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    Thumbs down Fun at any cost . . .

    . . Cook Inlet kings are in trouble . . If there was ever a time to tread lightly on the resource, this is surely it.

    Has it not occurred to you that it might be best to not tread on them at all? Good grief, how decimated must the king runs become before people will simply say "Enough" and stop fishing for them?

    Is catching a Kenai king really that much fun? . . . . . . unbelievable!




    *And don't let worry about the economy bother your conscience . . it's the red run that is our money-maker, not the kings. The peninsula will survive just fine. Lots more to do here than fish for kings.

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    This is the 2nd year in a row I simply can't understand why ANY of the King fisheries opened at all? I suppose it only took Washington 15 years to recover from the same problem, maybe we can learn from that?

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    Washington hasn't recovered from anything.

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    50 hours on average for an expert to land one fish, how about guides stop showing pictures of the largest fish they've caught over the years (drumming up false reality) and post the facts on your chances of hooking into a Kenai King for clients. Obviously guides need business, but portraying the Kenai as the finest spot to hook a chinook like the old days is just plain false advertising and I'm sure has left alot of people with a bitter taste in their mouth.

    Lets break down the math on that....

    6 people paying $250~ for a full day of fishing = 48 hours of combined effort. At that rate, for $1500 your party is expected to not land a single fish unless you are lucky. That's alot of **** money to gamble when the averages dictate no fish will be landed, anyone who can comprehend their actual chances of hooking a fish would be hard pressed to think twice about booking a charter for kings for anything more than a sightseeing trip.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fish4brains View Post
    Washington hasn't recovered from anything.
    The Columbia and Snake systems have been returning Kings and Steelhead in numbers not seen in 20 years, what else do you call that?

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    Hatcheries....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fishwhacker View Post
    50 hours on average for an expert to land one fish, how about guides stop showing pictures of the largest fish they've caught over the years (drumming up false reality) and post the facts on your chances of hooking into a Kenai King for clients. Obviously guides need business, but portraying the Kenai as the finest spot to hook a chinook like the old days is just plain false advertising and I'm sure has left alot of people with a bitter taste in their mouth.

    Lets break down the math on that....

    6 people paying $250~ for a full day of fishing = 48 hours of combined effort. At that rate, for $1500 your party is expected to not land a single fish unless you are lucky. That's alot of **** money to gamble when the averages dictate no fish will be landed, anyone who can comprehend their actual chances of hooking a fish would be hard pressed to think twice about booking a charter for kings for anything more than a sightseeing trip.
    They never will because it sells trips. Do you honestly think a business will undercut itself by showing the truth lately? 4 clients with one king salmon in one day of fishing, if lucky. The sad thing about Kenai guides is that no matter how sh#^ty the king runs, the clients from out of state keep on coming. That's right, just because Joe Underwear takes out some clients in June and gets lucky one day and gets 3 kings, (even though he can't use bait just because he thinks he deserves to, waaaahhhhhh!!!) he can still go down to Utah and sell some trips to some unsuspecting fisherpeople to catch some "monster" king salmon on the Kenai, even though the runs are crud. I'd be willing to bet that no matter how sh$%ty the Kenai king runs in the current past, the guides would still do a good job of selling trips during the peak period of king fishing in the coming year off of new clients. My point is, I doubt there are very many returning clients to the Kenai from out of state, espescially during the last few years, but they are able to "recruit" new clients in their place based on false hopes. Quite frankly I blame ADF&G for not being forthright in their assessment of the Kenai king runs the past 5 years.

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    The Great Rearing Pond is going thru its periodic swing from warm to cold. relatively speaking. When it does that, Alaska returns suffer and PNW runs prosper. Take a look at the historic catch records and return estimates. These cycles last 2 or 3 decades.

    Net projection, expect poor runs for about the next 20 years. The world is not ending, extinction is not imminent, but it may be prudent to close the spawning grounds and perhaps shorten the season.

    If I recall, the PDO was first identified by a Fisheries student trying to explain why the return/catch levels in WA and AK were inversely related, one up and the other down in any given period. You need to deal with what nature provides.
    Terry

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tee Jay View Post
    The Great Rearing Pond is going thru its periodic swing from warm to cold. relatively speaking. When it does that, Alaska returns suffer and PNW runs prosper. Take a look at the historic catch records and return estimates. These cycles last 2 or 3 decades.

    Net projection, expect poor runs for about the next 20 years. The world is not ending, extinction is not imminent, but it may be prudent to close the spawning grounds and perhaps shorten the season.

    If I recall, the PDO was first identified by a Fisheries student trying to explain why the return/catch levels in WA and AK were inversely related, one up and the other down in any given period. You need to deal with what nature provides.
    Terry
    Thats interesting, never heard that before. Looks like I picked the wrong time to move! Does that trend apply to Kings only or the other species as well?

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    look at yukon return to date not 1 king has been counted yet. I guess they like to pay penalties to canada.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
    Has it not occurred to you that it might be best to not tread on them at all? Good grief, how decimated must the king runs become before people will simply say "Enough" and stop fishing for them?

    Is catching a Kenai king really that much fun? . . . . . . unbelievable!




    *And don't let worry about the economy bother your conscience . . it's the red run that is our money-maker, not the kings. The peninsula will survive just fine. Lots more to do here than fish for kings.
    I think advocating for shutting everything down is "unbelievable." Complex problems have many layers and levels.

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    Well I speak for myself but 50 hours for non guided trip is BULL ****, I know of 4 guides that were done by 11:00 am Friday 2:00 pm and Saturday, Myself Sunday started fishing with boat hours reading 213 two fish later 219 hour meter, first day in the water for the year .

    ( States way of counting)
    You canít have two people setting on the river counting the same boats over twice and taking scale samples at a boat launch and adding that to the netting and the counter totals and come up with some magical F*&^$(* number that some number cruncher dreamed up in there sleep how to count fish without real sound way to do it.

    Iím not saying that the runs are good, Iím just saying donít believe every F)(*%(&^ thing you read.

    My thoughts after fishing the Kenai after 24 years.

    • One king a year per person per river system for a total of 5 per year. Use a punch card, and NO you donít get a F*&^$* extra one if you loose it. And its good for the whole inlet.
    • Keep nothing over say 40 inches
    • Cut Guides buy ĺ and only 4 days to fish a week, donít matter which days.
    • All rivers get two days of rest from king fishing.
    • Kill some of them F*^&$*&$* rainbows in that upper river,
    • Dip netted kings go backing the river or count as your one .
    • And let the natives harvest some of the seals in the spawning areas in the river Say, (college hole) for one of those areas .
    • Set nets, take off the beach and one mile out for 5 miles from the mouths of the rivers.
    • Last fire the F(&^$er at fish and game and get one with some NUTS, that stands up for our resources not what runs the economy.


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    Krusty,
    I have to agree with you on many of your ideas! We were supposed to have an update yesterday on the Kenai king fishery. Looks like more restrictions will be in the works. I'm sure the guides are lobbying like a board of fish meeting to stay open. Every local I know says shut it down. The best way to thin the guides is a shutdown. They have had a chance at the board of fish to make a difference but have chosen to look at the short term. I'm done feeling sorry for them. I fished one morning this week. Water is low, but really good color. Lots of guide boats, very few private boats. The few fish coming in have little chance, as the early run is a lot easier to catch. They are much more aggresive than the late run and bite without bait well. This combined with low, clear water and an efficient guide fleet ( with a client base that has no clue as to what constitutes a healthy Kenai king run), and we are playing on a slippery slope.

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    as what seems to be the case with all resources be it fish, game, minerals, what have you. money is coming way before the resources. god forbid states don't let people fish an area into decimation to make a few bucks for private individuals. kinda sad...hopefully the kings will have a little chance to recover before you have twice as many people fishing for half as many kings. at that rate it doesn't take a genius to realize that qould be tough to sustain any sort of quality and numbers with that kind of pressure. the human population isn't getting any smaller and won't. more and more people are competing for fewer and fewer resources especially those big trophy kings which are giving you the next generations.

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    Default Playing Warcraft?

    . . we are playing on a slippery slope.
    How steep a slope does the ongoing decline have to become before the fishNaddiction crowd quits out of sheer shame or the fishery is completely closed out of embarrassment?

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    I have nearly quit fishing kenai kings as I feel the resource is under more pressure than it can sustain. The problem may be more far reaching than what we are doing in the river, but it is at least one area that we can control. Hopefully, the new sonar data will prove to be a more accurate.

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    All I can say if we keep bonking 60 pounders, the problem is us. If you can't let a few big fish go, they will be fished to death. Have not fished for Kings in the Valley for years, except one time last year and none of us caught any that time too. Glad we didn't!!! Time to shut the fishing down for a 2 year moratorium.
    If a dipnetter dips a fish and there is no one around to see/hear it, Did he really dip?

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