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Thread: Leverevolution ammo or not?

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    Default Leverevolution ammo or not?

    My son-in-law and I are going on an unguided moose float hunt this fall in September. I am a new member but I've been reading and searching for information the last several months. We've read all the recommended books and the planning has been great. I have a Marlin GG in 450 cal and a Remington 742 in 30-06. I was thinking about bringing the Marlin. The Hornady leverevolution and the flat lead nosed ammo were both dead on at 100 yards. The leverevolution dropped 12 inches from 100 to 200 yards. I was able to compensate and shoot about 2.5 to 3 inch groups at 200. I did not shot the flat lead nosed ammo past 100 yards. I would like your thoughts on which ammo you would use on a moose hunt. Is there enough difference to matter?

  2. #2

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    Folks I know who have actually used Leverevolution ammo on game are impressed, even as the naysayers have never used it and never will. It certainly worked well on the three moose kills I know of first hand. Use it an be confident in the eyes of people who actually use it rather than type fantasies about it.

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    I do not use the LR ammo any more since being up in AK. I find loading to be iffy at best (gummy tip hanging up etc), not what you want when wondering around bear country or on a Moose hunt. I have never hunted with them either, but over on Marlinowners.com there are a lot of reports of poor expansion; but as Brownbear says, that could just be internet opinion and not actual experience.
    If you reload there are a lot better bullets (IMHO) out there to use; many up here swear by the Hornady 350Gr interlocks, I use them exclusively now and they are super accurate and consistent. I am also slightly biased now that I reload and hate reloading the gummy tip bullets!
    I have also heard great things about the Hornady DGS and DGX if ya want a 480Gr. Pretty much all of the 458 levergun bullets will have same drop off past 100yds (for same weight and velocity) as they almost all have a BC of about 0.2. The LRs are slightly better (but not much) with a BC of 0.23.
    I will leave the 'what's best for a moose' to others with far more expertise than me. But my 'novice moose, but love my GG' advice would be to use the Hornady Interlocks at 350Gr or flat nosed lead at 405Gr and up and be sure of your hold over up to 200yds. Best zero distance I have found for most 45-70/450 loads (17-1800fps) is around 150yds this gives you a +/- 5" Point Blank from 0-190yds which is great for hunting almost any big game with 0 holdover.

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    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    Works fine if not a reloader and make a good hole.If it was I could use I would not feel handicapped
    Now left only to be a turd in the forrest and the circle will be complete.Use me as I have used you

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    NBH40, like your idea of zeroing it in for 150 yards. I won't have to compensate so much at 200 yards which will be my limit. I plan on going to the range and shooting a couple of boxes of ammo at various distances not to exceed 200 yards. I have learned so much from reading this forum. Thanks again.

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    If the LR is grouping well for you it _should_ (never shot an animal with one myself) be the better hunting bullet.

    Which color bears and how big do you need to be prepared for? That could be the question that puts you back into the lead flat nose.

    I think either bullet would be fine for moose. The GG can be excellent for bear.

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    I hunt with my 30-30 quite a bit. An old guy I used to hunt with when I was a kid used his for moose for 40-50 years in British Columbia. Of course, there was no LR ammo back then. I've never used it, so can't say anything good, bad, or indifferent about it, but I can say that I've been satisfied with 170 gr. Hornady Interlocks for black bear. Also killed 1 grizz. The 30-30 is a fine moose and black bear cartridge, and adequate for grizz under the right conditions. I don't care what loads you're using, it is not an ideal choice for bear protection. I don't think twice about taking mine out for moose or black bear.
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    I skinned a bear shot with the LR bullets from a 45/70 factory load, which is slower than your 450 pushes the same bullet. That experience really turned me off to the LR bullets, the bear was an absolute mess. He had been shot three times in the chest, and had gaping exit wounds, three separate ones not one big one, and bullet fragments everywhere. There were pieces of core and jacket up to 8 inches from the center of the hole, both front quarters were ruined even though only one shoulder was broken. The whole scene reminded me of a deer shot in the shoulder with a 50gr CoreLokt from a 22-250 in my youth, blood pudding and bullet fragments everywhere.
    On the otherhand, I haven't had too good of luck with the 350gr Interlock Hornady loads in their other 450 load either. Granted I quit using it after only one bad experience, but one jacket shed under the onside hide was plenty for me. I would definitely take the 350gr load over the LR given the choice though neither would be my first pick.

    In your situation, and given my druthers, I would handload a 350gr Swift Aframe. They are spendy, but so are moose hunts, and they will not fail you. Either way good luck this fall, be safe and have fun. Btw this may be a good year for Okies in AK, being one myself I'm hoping the moose cooperate when my dad gets here this fall.

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    Guess I should read more carefully.....I saw Leverevolution and assumed 30-30. Regardless, what I said in my post stands. I've never used LR, but lever guns did the job for a long time before it came along and still will today. It may be good, it may be hype. I can't say from personal experience, but I wouldn't be real concerned about it either way. If you are really worried about bear protection, The Kid is right. You can't go wrong with A-frames.
    We are right to take alarm at the first experiment upon our liberties.
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    Little plastic tip on an interlock.......it's still an interlock. Had a bloody mess of a moose back in 08 using interlocks, lot of wasted meat from one bullet.

    The new "mono-flex" 450 marlin/45-70 bullet looks interesting. (guilding metal):


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    I'm not a fan of the Hornady Interlock either...whether in LR or not. I shot a fox with one at pretty close range and failed to get an exit wound. Bullet came completely unglued. I've heard of several more occurrences where an Interlock separated from the jacket and fragmented badly.

    I'd likely choose another bullet for the .450 Marlin.
    "I do not deal in hypotheticals. The world, as it is, is vexing enough..." Col. Stonehill, True Grit

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    Quote Originally Posted by hodgeman View Post
    I'm not a fan of the Hornady Interlock either...whether in LR or not. I shot a fox with one at pretty close range and failed to get an exit wound. Bullet came completely unglued. I've heard of several more occurrences where an Interlock separated from the jacket and fragmented badly.

    I'd likely choose another bullet for the .450 Marlin.
    Yip same here. Hunters like to parrot off of each other's logic for example: "The animal is dead, the bullet did it's job". Nope.......when you destroy large amounts of precious game meat, the bullet didn't work. Haha....."interlock". Smitty of the north just fired some 170 grainers from a 30-30 into wet phone books, the bullet grenaded in that stuff, with a measly 7" of penetration.

    With that said, I now use 300 grain .375 roundnosed hornady in my .375 winchester. At 1800 fps, I hope they'll hold up, we'll see.

    Here's an "interlock" for yah, sorry it's on the "internet" you can see their performance in real life if yah want to.......your choice:


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    I have shot a few deer and one black bear with the 45/70 - 325gn LR bullets - worked fine by me - all exited leaving no fragments inside - all animals traveled less than 25 feet, most just dropped in their tracks, meat loss was no worse than anything else I have used.
    I can see whacking a moose in a big shoulder bone and having a shrapnel issue maybe? I shot several into phone books and had decent penetration - about 75% did loose their jackets.
    The pokey old factory Rem 405grainers shot into same phone books penetrated as far or farther though. I would not worry about a moose but there are probably better choices for a griz...
    When asked what state I live in I say "The State of Confusion", better known as IL....

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    I have had the Marlin guide gun in .450 Marlin since it came out. I have only shot factory Hornady 350 grainers and I killed two moose with it. The bullet stopped under the skin on the off side, perfect mushroom, the shots were 25 yards to 75 yards respectively. I do not like Interlocks in Magnum Calibers but that is a speed issue, going slow they seem to work fine. But most of us don't like going slow

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Kid View Post
    I skinned a bear shot with the LR bullets from a 45/70 factory load, which is slower than your 450 pushes the same bullet. That experience really turned me off to the LR bullets, the bear was an absolute mess. He had been shot three times in the chest, and had gaping exit wounds, three separate ones not one big one, and bullet fragments everywhere. There were pieces of core and jacket up to 8 inches from the center of the hole, both front quarters were ruined even though only one shoulder was broken. The whole scene reminded me of a deer shot in the shoulder with a 50gr CoreLokt from a 22-250 in my youth, blood pudding and bullet fragments everywhere.
    On the otherhand, I haven't had too good of luck with the 350gr Interlock Hornady loads in their other 450 load either. Granted I quit using it after only one bad experience, but one jacket shed under the onside hide was plenty for me. I would definitely take the 350gr load over the LR given the choice though neither would be my first pick.

    In your situation, and given my druthers, I would handload a 350gr Swift Aframe. They are spendy, but so are moose hunts, and they will not fail you. Either way good luck this fall, be safe and have fun. Btw this may be a good year for Okies in AK, being one myself I'm hoping the moose cooperate when my dad gets here this fall.
    I'd like to hear a little bit more about the bear you skinned. How far away was it when it was shot. Was is a brown or black bear?

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    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    Three years ago I shot a blacktail with the LE and it worked good.On my return to get the rest of the deer I shot a 150# blacky eating guts with the same bullet and it too did just fine.The gun was not a 45/70 but I figure if 45colt worked so should others.Both shots about thirty yards.I have handloads now 335gr HC's but if like three years ago all I had were LE I would not worry
    Now left only to be a turd in the forrest and the circle will be complete.Use me as I have used you

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    Moderator stid2677's Avatar
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    I have seen 3 bears shot with them from my 45-70 and my Son killed a bear with his Muzzle Loader shooting them as well. All bears were dead with in feet of being shot. Excellent penetration and expansion.







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    We've all heard the phrase "A picture's worth a thousand words". STID2677 you are well spoken!

  19. #19
    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    When I shoot the LE at 25yards or less on paper there is usally a little hole above the big hole showing the tip has come off.Don't know if its designed that way.
    Now left only to be a turd in the forrest and the circle will be complete.Use me as I have used you

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    The bear I skinned that had been shot with the LE 45/70 was a blackbear. He was taken at 12yds through the shoulder slightly quartering to the shooter. He squared around 4'6" and may have weighed all of 90# soaking wet.

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