Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 44

Thread: Big game rifle for 10yr old idea

  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Anchorage
    Posts
    564

    Default Big game rifle for 10yr old idea

    I have a young son who is still pretty small statured and sadly left eye dominant. I have started him shooting left handed but this leaves a lot to be desired for gun options out there. I've decided that the best option from my current rifle battery is my T/C Encore. I found a good deal on a 308 barrel and am planning on cutting it down to 16.5". I have a 17.5" 45/70 barrel and it is actually pretty usable as a pistol or rifle barrel so I think this 308 barrel will work either way as well.

    this is with laminated stock and 17.5" 45/70 barrel


    I had been intending to cut down a wood stock for him until I found this choate sliding M4 style encore stock.


    I think this might be just the ticket. This way its still usable for me too I think combined with a pistol length forend this might be a very compact little backup rifle or camp gun and still be practical. The addition of a rimfire or 410 barrel could be interesting too. I think it will make for a very practical, light, survival rifle too.

    Anybody try one of these for smaller children?

  2. #2
    Member highestview's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Haines
    Posts
    1,308

    Default

    HPIM2986.jpg025.jpg

    This is my caribou gun. 223 Remington with a 20" barrel. Folds up to 26". I love it. I wouldn't hesitate handing it to any kid over 8 years old. Not much kick, easy to shoot and enough to kill caribou with. You'll probably have a bit more kick with the .308. With the 147 or 150 grain loads, it might be ok for a kid who shoots a bunch anyway.

    BTW, if you order the folding stock from Choate, I've been pleasantly suprised. It didn't save as much weight as I hoped, but it feels like really good quality material. Definitely not cheap junk.
    Born in Alaska: The boundary lines have fallen for me in pleasant places; surely I have a delightful inheritance. Psalm 16:6

  3. #3
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Anchorage
    Posts
    564

    Default

    I figured I would start him out with reduced loads. Hodgdon's sight has a lot of good reduced loads down to as low as 1100fps velocity for 150s and up to 2700fps. Maybe start out with some 150gr really low power loads in the 1200-1400fps velocity range and work up to a 150gr accubond or partition at 2400-2500fps. I figure a 150 partition ought to work on blackbears, caribou, and moose in this setup.

    The partition is supposed to open up down to 1800fps so given a 2500fps MV it will still be moving fast enough to open up past 300 yards and thats a lot farther than I will be letting him shoot for quite a while. Should be excellent load for baited black bear @ 50 yards with 2400+fps impact velocity.

  4. #4
    Member Smokey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Central Illinois
    Posts
    3,334

    Default

    Very cleaver rigs fella's! Got me wanting one now...
    When asked what state I live in I say "The State of Confusion", better known as IL....

  5. #5
    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Wrangell
    Posts
    7,600

    Default

    Careful with the Choate stock as with harder recoil they can collapse giving a good case of scope eye
    Now left only to be a turd in the forrest and the circle will be complete.Use me as I have used you

  6. #6
    Moderator LuJon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Palmer, AK
    Posts
    11,415

    Default

    Pretty sweet! I love the collapsible stock idea for youth hunters. I went with one as well for my boys though I did it on an AR platform.

  7. #7
    Moderator Paul H's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Anchorage
    Posts
    5,594

    Default

    I would advise against cutting down the .308 barrel. The encore action already makes the gun overall length about 4" shorter than a bolt action so the gun is compact. The shorter barrel will have a much larger muzzle blast, and the muzzle blast is just as big of a contributor to flinching as the jab at the shoulder.

    When my kids were younger I had them shoot my wifes .308 which has a cut down stock, and while it fit them well, they still weren't real keen on the .308's recoil even downloaded. I ended up getting each of the boy a bolt gun, one has a .223, the other a .243. There is something to be said for starting a child with an accurate gun that fits them well and has mild recoil. Feed em ammo and let them figure things out. It didn't take long for them to go from shooting clays on the 100yd berm to shotgun shells.

    My recomendation would be to get a .223 barrel, a good scope and a pile of ammo. Let him master marksmanship with a centerfire rifle, then move up the recoil curve.

    If you can afford it, there's something to be said for getting them there own gun, and the best gun you can afford with a stock cut to fit them and an excellent trigger pull. I ended up spending as much on their rifles as my own rifle vs. getting them some sort of cheapy kids gun. I've been tickled to see how quickly they gained shooting skills by combining good equipment with some coaching a keeping them in ammo.

    Those that are successful in Alaska are those who are flexible, and allow the reality of life in Alaska to shape their dreams, vs. trying to force their dreams on the reality of Alaska.

    If you have a tenuous grasp of reality, Alaska is not for you.

  8. #8
    Member GD Yankee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    PANC
    Posts
    1,117

    Default

    I'd agree about not cutting down the barrel past "normal" lengths. Muzzle blast is as much a factor in perceived recoil as recoil itself. I'd leave the barrel length between 20 and 22 inches and do what you're doing - down load for 150 grainers or use a lighter bullet. Hornaday has a specific load for kids/women/folks new to hunting:

    http://www.hornady.com/store/308-Win...ST-customlite/

  9. #9
    Member walk-in's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    North Pole
    Posts
    771

    Default

    +1 what Paul said. I'm not a fan of "kids" guns. My first one was an '06 built on a Husqvarna Mauser action that I still own and hunt with. I'd been shooting my dad's rifles for a few years before that, so I was ready for it.

    If I had a left-handed kid, I'd think very seriously about starting him out with a Model 94. Actually, that is exactly what I did with my oldest one, and he is right-handed. It is a manageable rifle with minimal recoil, and almost anyone can shoot it well enough to hunt with.

    My 6 year old has been practicing with a BB gun for the last year or so. I'm undecided at this point what his next step will be. It comes down to a choice between a Model 94 and a 270 Win. I think either one is suitable for young shooters, and either one will work for black bear, moose, and caribou.
    We are right to take alarm at the first experiment upon our liberties.
    James Madison

  10. #10
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Fairbanks
    Posts
    466

    Default

    My hunting buddy I think has done very well. His six year old started shooting this summer, AR15 on a bipod with collapsible shoulder stock. Her next gun will be a hand me down from older her sister, an 1894 in .44 "magnum" that will be loaded with loads she can handle and upgraded hotter as she is ready.

    The 1894 worked well becuase he bought a "spare" shoulder stock and cut it down to kid size to go along with the down loaded ammunition.

    The older daughter, 11 or 12 this year, got a .308 for her birthday last summer. A Remington 7xx I think? A common make, another inexpensive "spare" stock cut down less than the 1894 stock, and gently loaded.

    As the older daughter keeps growing, she'll end up with a good quality bolt gun with which she is familiar, in .308, with the original stock in the garage for re-installation when she outgrows the 11yo size.

    When both daughters outgrow the 1894 my buddy will put the original stock back on it and have an 1894 lever in .44magnum to go with his Ruger revolver in the same caliber.

    M2c

    EDIT: Cutting down one Encore stock now at current age/size and maybe a midsize Encore stock in a few years does seem like a good idea if you are committed to the platform. You can both share barrels and have a great deal of flexibility that way. I can't think of anything a 16.5" downloaded .308 could do that a factory built 10-14" .44magnum barrel couldn't do; I would be inclined to leave the .308 barrel alone and let him grow into it.

  11. #11
    Member The Kid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Los Anchorage
    Posts
    1,089

    Default

    I've got a ton of 173gr cast gascheck bullets I cast last winter. I'll bring you a big bunch of them next time I stop by. Load them with 7.0gr of Trailboss and let the boy have at it. That load sounds and feels like a 22lr and is doing about 975fps from a 22" tube. If you don't want to cut up your T/C I have an old Marlin 336 in 30/30 he can borrow if you want.

  12. #12
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Anchorage
    Posts
    564

    Default

    I already have a 30/06 24" barrel and 22-250 24" barrel that he can also use with this encore but really liked the compact size of my 17.5" 45/70 barrel, it is still usalbe as a pistol when cut down to 17.5" and makes for a dual use configuration.

    The 308 can be really downloaded and thats what I was fixing to start him off on. Starting with 150s at 1200fps which should be very mild and ultimately loading it up to 2400-2500fps for a high end. The 308 is actually pretty efficient out of a short barrel and I have a ton of loading data that was worked up with 15" pistol barrel and some that was worked up for a 16.5" ruger compact.

    Looking at the barrel today it looks like the shortest I can go and still fit in the lathe is going to be around 17.25" so that is probably where I will leave it.

    Kid- those cast bullets and trail boss load sound like they will be perfect practice loads to get him used to the little rifle. I doubt muzzle blast is that bad with that load and it should be easy to shoot.

    If my son shows sufficient interest and puts in the trigger time I will probably look at getting him his "own" big game rifle in another year or so.

  13. #13
    Member .338-06's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Anchorage
    Posts
    1,045

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by walk-in View Post
    If I had a left-handed kid, I'd think very seriously about starting him out with a Model 94.
    Josh, this is the only piece of advise that I disagree with and I'll tell you why. I've known several people over the years who were left-handed, shot left-handed, and used right handed bolt action rifles. Those who learned to work the action with their right hands were much, much faster. So much so that I've thought about getting a left-handed bolt action myself.
    I may be slow, but I get where I'm going!

  14. #14
    Member GrassLakeRon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Grass Lake Michigan
    Posts
    1,978

    Default

    For the price of an encore barrel you could get a Rossi in .243. I would also look at an NEF in 7mm-08.

  15. #15
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Anchorage
    Posts
    564

    Default

    I already have all the barrels so buying a rossi wouldn't save me any money . Besides I've not been very impressed with the rossi single shots. The encore is definitely my favorite of the single shot switch barrels.

  16. #16
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Southwest Alaska
    Posts
    2,145

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Thebear_78 View Post
    I have a young son who is still pretty small statured and sadly left eye dominant. I have started him shooting left handed but this leaves a lot to be desired for gun options out there. I've decided that the best option from my current rifle battery is my T/C Encore. I found a good deal on a 308 barrel and am planning on cutting it down to 16.5". I have a 17.5" 45/70 barrel and it is actually pretty usable as a pistol or rifle barrel so I think this 308 barrel will work either way as well.

    this is with laminated stock and 17.5" 45/70 barrel


    I had been intending to cut down a wood stock for him until I found this choate sliding M4 style encore stock.


    I think this might be just the ticket. This way its still usable for me too I think combined with a pistol length forend this might be a very compact little backup rifle or camp gun and still be practical. The addition of a rimfire or 410 barrel could be interesting too. I think it will make for a very practical, light, survival rifle too.

    Anybody try one of these for smaller children?
    So you are going to abuse the kid with a lightweight .308? And desert will be a .45/70? Why not start right with a .243?
    Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocre minds. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Albert Einstein

    Better living through chemistry (I'm a chemist)

    You can piddle with the puppies, or run with the wolves...

  17. #17
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Eureka MT
    Posts
    3,048

    Default

    I would get a bolt gun in 260Rem or 7mm-08 and put a scope on it and have him shoot it right handed with his right eye behind the scope. Eye dominance can be easily overcome especially using a scope. Just have him close his left eye or put tape over the left side of his shooting glasses. Some practice and he will be able to shoot with which ever eye he chooses.
    I can't imagine putting a light weight 10yr old behind a light weight 308 let alone a 45/70. The 260 may even be a little stiff and a 243 may be a better choice depending on how recoil sensitive the youngster is.

  18. #18
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Veneta, OR
    Posts
    1,156

    Default

    rbuck351 - I'm gonna have to agree with you 110% on that ... of course, if you built some special handloads with 125 / 130's the 308 would work pretty good too - put the kid in a 7mm/08 and he'll probably still be shooting it when he turns 21 - get a decent bolt action, cut the stock down and save the cut-out for future extension and let him learn right - at 10 years old I would have been in HEAVEN if I'd had equipment (and clothes) for ME instead of hand - me - downs and whatever was sitting around - I did it for my son and it seems to have worked well ....

  19. #19
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Anchorage
    Posts
    564

    Default

    Apparently you guys haven't been reading the full post. at no time did I mention him using the 45/70, that is simply not in the question.

    As to shooting a light weight 308, it is very easy to load down the 308 to 30/30 levels and recoil wouldn't be problem, especially when I was planning on running 150s at 1200-1400fps for the bulk of his practice ammo via the Tailboss loads. Like kid mentioned above recoil and report will not be an issue. Loading a few up a touch in the 2400-2500fps range will more than likely still be plenty mild enough even in a light rifle for the few shots he will have to make on game.

    There is simply nothing that can be done with the 260 or 7mm08 that can't be just as easily done with the 308.

    With bullets like the 130gr TTSX out there full power loads with the 308 are not that signifiganly more punishing to shoot than 100s out of a 243 and I think the extra bullet will come in handy for a beginner shooting something as big as moose. I have a 243 and agree that it is an excellent hunting round I still feel its marginal for moose and would rather him run something a little bigger. A 150gr partition @ 2400-2500fps will be both mild and effective out to any range I would let him take a shot at game.

    As to getting him shooting right handed I think he is better off shooting with his dominant eye. If he shows enough interest we can look at getting him a dedicated left hander down the road.

    Honestly I couldn't think of a better first timer rifle than the encore. aside from being completely ambidextrous it is also a very safe platform that will instill safety and marksmanship.

  20. #20
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Kodiak, AK
    Posts
    640

    Default

    OK The Bear, I'll shoot ya some experience based on ya question. I have a 10 year old boy of small stature. He has been shooting since he was 6 and contrary to popular opinion, he can actually handle a 45/70 better than many adults I have seen! Although I know that is not your plan, but smaller stature people can actually handle recoil very well as they tend to ride with the recoil rather than try and absorb it. The trick is to NOT train them from bench-rest, but to shoot freehand in any of the standard shooting positions. Not sure what you mean by 'big game', but if you mean blacktails, then an 1894 in 357 will do the job easily - my kid took his first 2 blacktails each at around 100 yds with heavy loaded 180 grainers. He now has a Rem 700 mountain rifle in '06 that he handles very well, but I started him on light loads and once he got confident I started to build uo the loads. The real trick is to train them right, if they do not get a good shouler/cheek weld, grip control etc, then it all goes wrong and they get scared.
    Now for your Encore idea, I have done what you plan, albeit with a CVA single shot in 30-06. It was sat in the safe doing nothing so I thought 'what the heck' and cut barrel to 16" and a bit. My kid loves firing it, even with heavy 180gr loads, muzzle blast is not an issue at all and it will drop 4" plates at 300 yds all day long. My kid actually could not stop shooting it when we first took it to the range! Contrary to opinion the percieved recoil is less than when it had the 22" barrel and it now balances far better. And it gets a lot of attention at the range! I used to hate the darn thing, but now it is one fun toy!

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •