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Thread: HSM bear loads for 44 mag...300 vs. 305, what is difference?

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    Default HSM bear loads for 44 mag...300 vs. 305, what is difference?

    Ok, I have a Smith/Wesson 629 .44 mag, i think a 5 in barrel...

    I have 2 different boxes of ammo, both HSM Bear Loads....305 grain lead WFN Gas Checkv and 300 g Truncated cone lead...

    what is the difference between the two?

    I sighted in my gun with the 300 since I was told that the 305 was 'hardened'...and was not sure about the 300's since I got them from a friend....figured there would not be much of a difference in the groups...

    The 300's shot well, good groups...put the 305's in and man, they shot 3 in high and 6 in right!...since i had shot all the 300's, I resighted the gun in with teh 305's, not quite as accurate it seemed, more kick...

    Are these decent for bear, or should I stick with a carbon 305 g, which is the max for my gun?...what's the difference between these two? Will the truncated mushroom out more?
    Scotty in the AK bush

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    Sponsor ADfields's Avatar
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    You want the WFNs (wide flat nose) for bear, flat “rips” into cone “pokes” into like a wedge. The flat frontal area makes a much better wound channel and is less likely to deflect off line when contacting bone. If that particular brand isn’t accurate you may look for another but for bear defense you want that power to drive that flat into bone (the more recoil that comes with the power) and we are talking inside ten yards anyway so varmint accuracy isn’t required.

    As always you want as powerful (heaviest bullet you can push to 1100fps) as you can shoot, but it does no good if you cant hit the bear with it.
    Andy
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    If you can get a shot into a bear's brain pan, okay. Otherwise, I'll give you $100 for every .44 Mag round you can send through a bear's hide, through his muscles, and into a large bone. I once had a client who shot a large bull moose with a single-action Ruger .44 Mag. Good hits - - - ALL TWENTY-FOUR OF THEM! HIs revolver was scoped, and he was a terrific shot. In his book, "Pioneering Handgun Hunting," the client, Al Goerg, claimed a two-shot kill !!! I finished the poor bull with a shot from my .450 Fuller.

    I recall when a bartender in Spenard had to shoot a nasty client from directly across the bar. He was using his .44 Mag. Knocked the guy down, but the bullet only wandered around inside the guy, not hurting him seriously at all. I"d think twice about relying upon a handgun against large bears . . . . .



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    Member mainer_in_ak's Avatar
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    Sorry Grizz, proper bullet, and all is well. Your client was a moron, and I'm uncertain if I've ever heard of a guide who would allow a client to shoot a game animal 24 times? With the proper speer gold dot, a 44 mag will do the job of personal defense against humans.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grizzly 2 View Post
    If you can get a shot into a bear's brain pan, okay. Otherwise, I'll give you $100 for every .44 Mag round you can send through a bear's hide, through his muscles, and into a large bone. I once had a client who shot a large bull moose with a single-action Ruger .44 Mag. Good hits - - - ALL TWENTY-FOUR OF THEM! HIs revolver was scoped, and he was a terrific shot. In his book, "Pioneering Handgun Hunting," the client, Al Goerg, claimed a two-shot kill !!! I finished the poor bull with a shot from my .450 Fuller.

    I recall when a bartender in Spenard had to shoot a nasty client from directly across the bar. He was using his .44 Mag. Knocked the guy down, but the bullet only wandered around inside the guy, not hurting him seriously at all. I"d think twice about relying upon a handgun against large bears . . . . .


    Do you by chance know what bullets were being used? How much would you want to bet that they were light-weight expanding bullets? Larry Kelly shot a large brownie with two cylinder-fulls of 240 grain jacketed hollow-points and nearly became a meal. That was a defining moment for him with regards to how the .44 mag should be loaded in the future and lead to him using 300 grain flat-nosed hardcasts from then out. Obviously any and every caliber's effectiveness is dictated by the bullets being used. A varmint-type frangible bullet in a large rifle caliber would be equally ineffective and unimpressive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ADfields View Post
    You want the WFNs (wide flat nose) for bear, flat “rips” into cone “pokes” into like a wedge.
    I can confirm this. When shooting rabbits and grouse for food along my hikes, my old 45 ACP Sig Sauer using round nosed FMJ bullets would oftentimes leave the rabbit bouncing around screaming like a child. Upon pulling the hide n guts off the rabbits, I'd find a square hit, but VERY LITTLE evidence of a bullet hole. It looked like a slit from an arrow. It was at that point I decided that I might not shoot at a bear with the 45 ACP. Heck, my old 17HMR Ruger Single Six incapacitated them instantly, using 20 grain mushrooming game points.

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    I shot a moose in the head once with the 300gr truncated cone, he went nighty-night. He had already been wounded with a rifle shot, we thought he was dead. He wasn't. After we set rifles down to mark the tag and light a cigar he got back up and turned towards us ready to fight. That HSM load snapped his head back and he didn't get back up. Range was about 7yds.
    I looked into the "Bear Loads" that HSM makes after I picked up a box for my .45-70, if I recall they are pretty high up there in the velocity/weight department.
    I've been very happy with the performance of both the .44 mag and .45-70 cartridges they make.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grizzly 2 View Post
    If you can get a shot into a bear's brain pan, okay. Otherwise, I'll give you $100 for every .44 Mag round you can send through a bear's hide, through his muscles, and into a large bone. I once had a client who shot a large bull moose with a single-action Ruger .44 Mag. Good hits - - - ALL TWENTY-FOUR OF THEM! HIs revolver was scoped, and he was a terrific shot. In his book, "Pioneering Handgun Hunting," the client, Al Goerg, claimed a two-shot kill !!! I finished the poor bull with a shot from my .450 Fuller.

    I recall when a bartender in Spenard had to shoot a nasty client from directly across the bar. He was using his .44 Mag. Knocked the guy down, but the bullet only wandered around inside the guy, not hurting him seriously at all. I"d think twice about relying upon a handgun against large bears . . . . .


    I have an original copy of Georg's book here some place but, don't remember such in the book or his guide? I spoke with him years back. Not disputing your words. One of his son's is a member on Graybeards Outcoor forum, maybe I'll ask him? I do know his oldest son went with him quite frequently.
    Steve

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