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Thread: .460 Rowland Question

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    Member Sharpshooterassassin's Avatar
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    Default .460 Rowland Question

    Has anyone used the .460 Rowland Conversion Kit in their 1911, S&W M&P, Glock, or Springfield XD/m .45's? And if so, how'd it turn out?

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    I have one for my Colt Commander and it is a real whomper and quite accurate. I like that you can shoot .45 ACP thru it also. The big problem is finding ammo with a practical bullet configuration in Anchorage. I've been trying to find the Buffalo Bore solids, no luck. Guess I will have to break out the reloading equipment and get to work.

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    Member Sharpshooterassassin's Avatar
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    Have you tried Sportsmans Warehouse? I saw Buffalo Bore there but don't know if they have it in .460. How accurate is it shooting the .45 acp out of the Rowland barrel? Is the recoil less when you have the Rowland barrel in it?

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    Sportsman's does not have 460 ammo... the only options in Anchorage are WWG (corbon), or roll your own. I would not recommend shooting 45 ACP in the Rowland barrel since 45 (and 460) headspace on the case mouth, which is not the same with the 2 cartridges. The 45 ACP is held in position (in a 460 barrel) by the extractor, not properly headspaced, and lends to malfunctions, broken extractors, and case head separations.

    I have an XD conversion, and after some learning curve, and a trip back to the shop for fine tuning, works just fine.

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    I've been thinking about doing a .460 conversion on my G21 but have always feared it would not feed hard cast semi-wadcutter or WFN which is what I would choose to shoot in it and carry it in place of my G20 in 10MM. Any experience with that type of bullets? Also, with a 230 - 250 gr bullet, do yo have enough case capacity to get good velocity or is it pretty well limited to lesser bullets?
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    Member Akheloce's Avatar
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    I run 250 gr. LRNFP in my XD without issues... I think that running SWC or WFN, may be pushing it for reliability. I'm able to reliably get 1250 FPS from the 250 LRNFP's with Longshot. I ordered a copy of Quickload to see where I'm at, and make sure I'm not being stupid, and I'll check the numbers when I get it in the mail.

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    The 460 is a great cartridge although I find myself with my glock 20 on my hip alot more than my 460 conversion. The 460 will not shoot to the sights on a normal 1911, which is what I have (clark custom conversion on a S&W 1911). The heavy bullets shoot high at 1200 fps and the 230 tc shoots high as well. It is easy to get a 230 TC to 1350 fps and a 255 SWC to 1100 FPS. I really believe in the cartridge although getting it to feed reliably and to the sights requires alot of work. I have probably shot over 2000 rounds of 460 rowland in the last couple of years and am still working on it. If you are not a fairly serious reloader I wouldn't even consider it. It requires a messing with magazine springs to get it to feed and recoil springs to get it to function. 45 acp seems to work fine in the conversion with the right springs however accuacy falls off quite a bit, it also has the risk of headspace issues in the longer chamber. My two cents...

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    Thanks guys!

    I do like the potential power in the G21 over the G20 but then I think the G20 is adequate in most cases anyway. Throwing a heavier slug can't be a bad thing and I have dies for 55 cartridges and have been loading for 50+ years so it might be fun to play with and carry for moose or bear.
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  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lowrider View Post
    I've been thinking about doing a .460 conversion on my G21 but have always feared it would not feed hard cast semi-wadcutter or WFN which is what I would choose to shoot in it and carry it in place of my G20 in 10MM. Any experience with that type of bullets? Also, with a 230 - 250 gr bullet, do yo have enough case capacity to get good velocity or is it pretty well limited to lesser bullets?
    I just left a message on the Johnny Rowland site asking about hard cast bullets. Below is a copy/paste, in red, of the response sent to my Yahoo email account:

    Yes, but you must be aware that your barrel will "lead" very quickly with the high velocities realized by the Mighty .460 Rowland. Accuracy will suffer after very few rounds are fired.

    Hope that helps.
    MyTime

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    Quote Originally Posted by MyTime View Post
    I just left a message on the Johnny Rowland site asking about hard cast bullets. Below is a copy/paste, in red, of the response sent to my Yahoo email account:

    Yes, but you must be aware that your barrel will "lead" very quickly with the high velocities realized by the Mighty .460 Rowland. Accuracy will suffer after very few rounds are fired.

    Hope that helps.
    The response in red only exemplifies the fact that there are large numbers of folks out there who don't understand the first thing about what causes leading (and most don't seem interested in learning). A properly sized, gas checked bullet, using any decent quality lube, should produce virtually no leading at .460 Rowland velocities.
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    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    Wonder why I don't have leading problems in my 454 as I'm sure its faster than the Rowland.I know if I realy push the load leading will/can happen but at designed speed and pressure in handguns to me there should not be a problem
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  12. #12

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    Using a proper hardness with a proper lube hard cast bullets can be shot at rifle velocities from rifles without a leading problem.

    The answer above in "RED" is not correct

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    Will someone please post some ballistic info on this round, here? I'm ignorant of this round and what it's used for. Low pressure or high? Possible damage to a 1911?
    Steve

  14. #14

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    I finally worked out all the kinks on my XD 460 Rowland and I am very pleased with it. I'm currently shooting 200gr rnfp hardcast at around 1450 fps, no leading problems yet. Very accurate and lots of fun to shoot!

    I just picked up a box of 230gr rnfp and those should move along at 1350fps.

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    Agree...Johnny Rowland is clueless and you guys are right...proper bullet will not leave lead behind in the rifling at those speeds. That response sure makes him loose credibility.

    I guess I'll give up on the Rowland based upon feeding reliability concerns. I guess I find comfort in the BH in 45 LC with the 300 gr WFN and if I can't get the job done with 6 rounds I probably can't get it done with 7 or 8 either.
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    Member S.B.'s Avatar
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    Everything I could find on the .460 Rowland on the net was very vague to say the least? One said the power of a .44 magnum but, how can this be with a semi auto pistol chambered for .45 ACP? Again, will someone please post some balistics for this cartridge?
    Steve

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    Here's some; http://www.realguns.com/loads/460Rowland.htm . Accurate Arms had loads in their last reloading manual. When people say, "The power of a .44 mag in a .45 auto!", they're leaving out the qualifying 'lower end'. As in, "The power of a lower end .44 mag in a .45 auto!". The .460 Rowland will push, according to all the data I've seen, a 230 grain bullet between 1250-1350fps. There's a LOT of 240 grain .44 loads doing just that.

    For more load data Google .460 Rowland load data. I'm sure you'll find more.
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    Buffalo Bore clames 1250 fps on there 255gr rowland ammo . IDK if thats true or not but if I can get my hands on a box I would love to run the through my chronograph.

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    Member S.B.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by .338-06 View Post
    Here's some; http://www.realguns.com/loads/460Rowland.htm . Accurate Arms had loads in their last reloading manual. When people say, "The power of a .44 mag in a .45 auto!", they're leaving out the qualifying 'lower end'. As in, "The power of a lower end .44 mag in a .45 auto!". The .460 Rowland will push, according to all the data I've seen, a 230 grain bullet between 1250-1350fps. There's a LOT of 240 grain .44 loads doing just that.

    For more load data Google .460 Rowland load data. I'm sure you'll find more.
    But, in a 1911 isn't that with a round nose FMJ bullet for reliabiity?
    Steve

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    Seems kinda the same as the 10mm vs 41 Mag comparisons Heavy handloaded 10mm = very low end watered-down factory 41 Mag and Heavy handloaded (or BB etc) 460 Rowland = very week watered-down factory 44 mag. You do however get a lot more chances to miss if you are using a modern double stack handgun.
    Personally I cannot see the point of converting a 1911 to 460 (apart from the cool factor) as you do not get 44 power and only get a couple more rounds than a 6 gun.

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