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Thread: My original intent on the Ted Nugent thread:

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    Member highestview's Avatar
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    Default My original intent on the Ted Nugent thread:

    Well, I'm glad that circus is over. I'd like to clarify really quick why I posted that.

    1.) First and foremost, I'm a news junkie. I check the news 10 times a day from at least 5 sources. I saw a relevant major news story about hunting, so I shared it.

    2.) I really couldn't care less who it was or his background, the only significance was a widely known and recognized person was charged with a hunting violation. I personally think it was bigger deal that our own director of fish and game was convicted of violations, but I could foresee a lot of attention coming to this case. I've been proven right, as this story has gone on to many major outlets, even Glenn Beck. Don't be tempted to get into a different argument about government, this was a hunting issue first, I think. It was an existing reg when he went into the field. Let's avoid the political discussion here.

    3.) This drives home the point: There are more cameras, reporters, bloggers, activists and groups with agendas here than ever has been before. We're no longer the disconnected state that we once were. Publicity surrounding hunting issues used to only reach our state. That is absolutely no longer the case. Alaska news is big news now, particularly hot-issues, and our state is loaded with them. We shoot wolves, drill for oil, cut down trees, dig mines and exert significant political influence for our small population size. This naturally attracts the attention of the aforementioned groups. Everyone should be reminded that whatever you are, (hunter, subsistence fisher, sport fisher, anti-mining activist, Tea-Partier, serial killer, lost hiker, hunting violator, hunting protester, occupier, housewife, CEO, bushdweller, military transplant, church club, whatever...) the media eye is on us up here in a whole entire new way, specifically since 2008. The cameras are here, looking for footage, the 'new journalists' are here, trying to make a name for themselves and they know how to make a small story into a national one. Yikes.

    4.) Our law enforcement and court system is also under a whole new level of media saturation. I have a lot of confidence that our LEO's are professional and outstanding, but anyone changes, at least a little bit, when they are in front of the camera. There are few things that unsettle me like the idea of law enforcement with 'what's good TV' in the back of their heads. Haven't yet had a bad experience because of that, but that doesn't mean it's not worth considering.

    All of this creates my main intent and goal of the original post:

    5.) ETHICS & PREPARATION. It was a very timely incident to remind us all to double down on our ethics and our preperation. We're all a week or so of from charging out of our snow lined driveways into the great outdoors to begin hunting, fishing and exploring. This is the perfect time to remember, 'If you get sloppy, it could happen to you'.
    Everybody needs to read the regulations like a Pharisee, memorize every single word of your units regs and take two copies with you into the field. Shove the regs down your hunting partners throats, make sure they know it too. Prepare yourself to do the painfully ethical thing of walking away, or marking your tag and going home empty handed, whatever the case may be.

    This applies to safety as well. As much as I hate headlines about people who are sloppy, uneducated and unprepared, I REALLY hate to see the headlines where those people end up dead or hypothermic.

    Forget about Ted Nugent and his history. I'm challenging all of the members on this forum, on an individual level. Let's make sure we're not the ones in the headlines this year. Let's issue the same challenge to every other hunter/fisher/outdoorsman we know. Let's give the anti's nothing to use against us this season. Also, go vote.

    God bless and happy trails this year! - highestview
    Born in Alaska: The boundary lines have fallen for me in pleasant places; surely I have a delightful inheritance. Psalm 16:6

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    I couldn't agree more!

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    Well said, rep sent
    Semper Fi and God Bless

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    Quote Originally Posted by highestview View Post
    . Let's give the anti's nothing to use against us this season.
    The "anti's" (whoever it is you deem them to be) are of no real concern to hunters and hunting. They are a tiny fragment of the overall population, probably fewer than hunters. "They" just get press because they are out being loud and self-righteously indignant, and nothing we do or don't do will matter.
    Instead, let us give no reason for any non-hunters to be swayed against our traditions of responsible respectful use of wildlife, and give them no reason to feel we are not worthy stewards of the resource.
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    Member AKDoug's Avatar
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    Good post Dave. You are never going to sway an anti-hunter, but non-hunters could go either way.
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    Very good and sound post!
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    I would like to piggyback on Homerdaves statement. It is important for 'individuals' to speak up on isssues of importance as most people understand. However, we/groups have enabled other 'groups' of folks to demonize entire communities of peoples. We, individuals have allowed this thru an apologistic attitude that we 'feel' obligated to express to those who intend to impune another community (like our hunting community). We had better stop apologizing for so called 'slob hunters' and call them what they are....law breakers....'individual' lawbreakers. The painting of entire groups by other 'anti's' is nothing more than a ruse so they can gain leverage. And it has been working. This idea that seems to be spreading of 'collectoffism' is a dangerous road to travel. We wouldn't be having this discussion if the 'individual' was looked at like what he is....another individual.
    Your sarcasm is way, waaaayyyyyyyy more sarcastic than mine!

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    Forums, like this one, provide a great value I feel for shedding some light on many of the laws and variations of them by area's, that many of us hunters either miss when reading law booklets, misunderstand, or fail to research properly. I think a trap many of us fall into is when we hunt an area/critter over many years we get lax on researching any new law changes - more laziness I reckon, and this gets many in trouble.
    Good post Highestview - it provides a stimulus to do the research, read and ask questions... Rep Sent!
    When asked what state I live in I say "The State of Confusion", better known as IL....

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    Quote Originally Posted by homerdave View Post
    The "anti's" (whoever it is you deem them to be) are of no real concern to hunters and hunting. They are a tiny fragment of the overall population, probably fewer than hunters. "They" just get press because they are out being loud and self-righteously indignant, and nothing we do or don't do will matter.
    Instead, let us give no reason for any non-hunters to be swayed against our traditions of responsible respectful use of wildlife, and give them no reason to feel we are not worthy stewards of the resource.
    Ya know good post there Dave and much respect to you but my take on antis is that they do have an impact simply because the press that they do get does have a chance of swaying the non-hunters. Good or bad they have a way of twisting everything to suit their needs so they have to be a concern.Really sucks that these kinds of discussions have to come up and its very sad that we have a large population of unethical people in our group that make us all look bad.
    Highestview great post all the best to you.

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    QUOTE..."Really sucks that these kinds of discussions have to come up and its very sad that we have a large population of unethical people in our group that make us all look bad." UNQUOTE........................................... .................................................. ........Exactly what I spoke of. Go ahead and somehow tie a FEW, or in this case ONE, (and u call it a 'large population' in your statement) unethical action by someone and take the blame for ALL hunters. Dont' u think "personal" responsibility would put the blame where it should be? By the standards u describe, the human races problems are YOUR fault. As u are a member of it. Thats really helpful to solve the problem. (sarc) How bout we just carry thru with the rules as written. U do the crime, u do the time. Simple.
    Your sarcasm is way, waaaayyyyyyyy more sarcastic than mine!

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    Quote Originally Posted by cod View Post
    QUOTE..."Really sucks that these kinds of discussions have to come up and its very sad that we have a large population of unethical people in our group that make us all look bad." UNQUOTE........................................... .................................................. ........Exactly what I spoke of. Go ahead and somehow tie a FEW, or in this case ONE, (and u call it a 'large population' in your statement) unethical action by someone and take the blame for ALL hunters. Dont' u think "personal" responsibility would put the blame where it should be? By the standards u describe, the human races problems are YOUR fault. As u are a member of it. Thats really helpful to solve the problem. (sarc) How bout we just carry thru with the rules as written. U do the crime, u do the time. Simple.
    Give me a break read the papers the few are lumped in with the many in the eyes of the public...poachers...slob hunters...bad hunters..good hunters are all lumped together like it or not. If we dont check our own actions and police our own those who are the non hunters will swayed to the other side and will be the same to take our rights away with their votes. I am all for the regs..probably turned in more bad hunters then most I think ted got what he deserved.. Twist it any way you want thats how things work around here afterall isnt it... why else was there 14 plus pages about a guy who got caught breaking the law..have fun with it...me Im gone hunting legally that is..

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    Nice points highestview. Most of your points were more or less expressed in that thread anyway. Some have different points of view (or flavors).

    It will be difficult to not evolve this thread into a discussion of similar politics as the OP skims from that topic.

    My thoughts are: Suggest the mods merge the fist post of this thread with the other thread and close. Otherwise this thread will likely be more ugly (and short lived) than the first.

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    Member cod's Avatar
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    Funny how some think there is 'ugliness' involved. I simply stated logic and my opinion. No offense intended to ANYONE. As soon as someone like the OP-(and i have no hard feelings towards him) speaks of a certain 'group', that person has created what IS 'politics'. I simply stated that as soon as U do that, U have created the very situation that U seem to dread. A 'group' is not described or organized except for one reason....to create a 'political' position. All I'm saying is that if legal hunters think they are at fault and must apologize for the sins of another who hunted, have at it. Its not getting your desired result tho, is it. NO, the anti's are still at your door on a daily basis. So I'm suggesting that folks look at the problem, identify it, and then deal with THAT problem. Again, too simply. Finally, I dont know why some are getting their grundies in a bundle just cause someone has a point of view. Sheesh. Words or discussion of ideas really scare someone. Why,...mite they have to EVALUATE (rethink) their position? ......Cheers
    Your sarcasm is way, waaaayyyyyyyy more sarcastic than mine!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bear View Post
    Ya know good post there Dave and much respect to you but my take on antis is that they do have an impact simply because the press that they do get does have a chance of swaying the non-hunters. Good or bad they have a way of twisting everything to suit their needs so they have to be a concern.Really sucks that these kinds of discussions have to come up and its very sad that we have a large population of unethical people in our group that make us all look bad.
    Highestview great post all the best to you.
    We meet again Bear. I agree with you, Dave and Highestview 99%. Just don't underestimate the anti's. They are a huge concern, and their numbers (and especially their financial backing) grow every day. As stated, they have the powerful media in their corner, along with an education system that pollutes our children relentlessly. It's an incremental process that we need to fight every day.
    Last edited by Brian M; 05-04-2012 at 11:34. Reason: political

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    Forum Admin Brian M's Avatar
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    For those of you who haven't gotten the message, we do not allow political discussion here. Yes, there is a political aspect to game management and such discussion is encouraged, but please give the political labels and such a rest. The original post in this thread is well thought out and an attempt to make a salient, intelligent post. How we get from there to castigating people with political labels, I'm not sure, but to be clear - it needs to stop or individuals will lose the privilege of posting here.

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    Sorry Brian, didn't know. Won't happen again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LIVE2DIY View Post
    Sorry Brian, didn't know. Won't happen again.
    No worries, and I apologize if my response was too strongly worded. We've had to go round and round with these issues over the year. Unfortunately, such discussion has poisoned the atmosphere at points in the past. We choose to stick to what we do well by focusing on the Alaskan Outdoors and leaving political discussion to sites that focus on such.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian M View Post
    For those of you who haven't gotten the message, we do not allow political discussion here. Yes, there is a political aspect to game management and such discussion is encouraged, but please give the political labels and such a rest. The original post in this thread is well thought out and an attempt to make a salient, intelligent post. How we get from there to castigating people with political labels, I'm not sure, but to be clear - it needs to stop or individuals will lose the privilege of posting here.
    OK, political discussion isn't allowed, but "there is a political aspect to game management", and probably hunting too. (This is the "hunting" forum.)

    The thread generated 270 replies and 12,498 views, which presumably is a lot of interest, comparatively speaking, and I would think, that would be a positive thing for the forum.

    There was, ONE public post asking that the thread be shut down. I dunno if, or how many, such PMs to the Mods there were.

    270 posts are a lot to wade through, but I failed to find any "political labels" or "castigating people with political labels". Perhaps, it was between the lines.

    Personallly, I am more saddened, and my interest dampened, when a thread is shut down, than by any hot discussion of a topic.

    Aside from that, it can deny someone the ability to defend themselves or their point.

    Just sayin,

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty of the North View Post
    270 posts are a lot to wade through, but I failed to find any "political labels" or "castigating people with political labels". Perhaps, it was between the lines.
    There was some stuff that was deleted shortly after it was posted. Perhaps it would have been better addressed via PM.

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    Great post I agree 100 %
    Is it opening day of duck season yet
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