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Thread: Project Rossi 92 in 256 Winchester Magnum

  1. #1
    Sponsor ADfields's Avatar
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    Default Project Rossi 92 in 256 Winchester Magnum

    Itís all Smittyís fault, well Rbuck, EKC and some others may have been involved some too. I got the fever, I ainít had rifle feavor for years and years now as Iím a handgun nut to heart. Something about a 357mag necked to .257Ē on a 92 lever action as a predator gun just strikes my fancy. Anyway Iím set out to build 2 of these, one on an octagon and one round barrel. We talked some on the ď30-30 cast vs. jacketĒ thread about it.

    I had a hard time finding a 357 Rossi 92 at all but now I got both of them headed to Alaska, be in next week sometime I hope. Rounded up the reamer, .257Ē 1in14 barrel blanks, and dies so far. Iím all excited to start the chips flying off these blanks soon as I can. Ran into two hold-ups so far though, the go-gage is a backorder, canít cut a good chamber without a go-gage.

    So I thought Iíd spend some time today making some brass from 357. Step one, anneal and use my 7.62x26 Tokarev dies to step them down. Went great necking them to 30 caliber this way so on to my brand new 256 Win Mag dies when the next roadblock came up. Seems my not so cheap Hornady ($80 for Hornady or hundred something for Reding were my 256WM off the rack chooses) sizing die doesnít want to thread into the press, closer inspection shows why. The steel Hornady used had a micro fracture that chipped off in the threading operation boogering the tool and thus the threads. Somebody was asleep at the switch, wonder how many other out of spec parts he made before he changed the insert. Seems if there is a bad part floating around in the last year it ends up at my house. Iím sure Hornady will do me good on it so Iíll be calling them tomarow about it.

    Here is the offending critter, the picture shows the hole that chunked off but doesnít show all the chatter the busted tool made after that . . . only on the top half so must have been on the very last threading pass.
    DSC_0003a2.jpg
    DSC_0003a.jpg 
    Stay tuned here and Iíll keep posting how things are coming along with my little project.
    Andy
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  2. #2

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    You've sure got my attention! Keep us posted because I'm a 25 cal freak.

    On the subject of reforming 357's, I get roughly 98% success rate simply lubing well (Imperial Wax) and running them right into the 256 die. Failures are folds in the neck, usually traced to an irregularity at the mouth. I always though it would be worthwhile to slightly "true" them first in a trimmer. YMMV.

    Playing with the 256 a fair bit in rifles and Contender barrels, take a close look at the 75 grain Speer flat points and the Remington 86 grain FP's intended for the 25-20. Both are stellar performers. My biggest headaches have always centered on the little 60 grain FPs. Yeah, you get lots of velocity, but what good is a varmint bullet with 6" groups at 100?

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    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    Good luck and keep us posted.
    Now left only to be a turd in the forrest and the circle will be complete.Use me as I have used you

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    I too am a 1/4 bore nut. I am curious how a .25 bullet sitting on top of a .45colt or 454 case would turn out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BrownBear View Post
    You've sure got my attention! Keep us posted because I'm a 25 cal freak.

    On the subject of reforming 357's, I get roughly 98% success rate simply lubing well (Imperial Wax) and running them right into the 256 die. Failures are folds in the neck, usually traced to an irregularity at the mouth. I always though it would be worthwhile to slightly "true" them first in a trimmer. YMMV.

    Playing with the 256 a fair bit in rifles and Contender barrels, take a close look at the 75 grain Speer flat points and the Remington 86 grain FP's intended for the 25-20. Both are stellar performers. My biggest headaches have always centered on the little 60 grain FPs. Yeah, you get lots of velocity, but what good is a varmint bullet with 6" groups at 100?
    Sounds as though your rate of twist may be off a tad.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sniper3083006 View Post
    Sounds as though your rate of twist may be off a tad.
    Nah. It's the long throat and the tendency of the short bullet to yaw on seating. I could minimize it by starting the bullet, then rotating the case 90 degrees before final seating. I haven't wanted to buy any kind of "match" bullet seater, but that would help, too. Best of the lot accuracy-wise in anything I shoot including a couple of 25-20's and three 256's has been the Speer 75 grain FP.

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    I'll be keepin track of your progress, AD:

    And, I admire your capabilities.

    Smitty of the North
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    Iíll sure keep it posted here. Whittling out a barrel that will work is no big deal at all to me. I am worried about feeding and accuracy bugs because Iíve done things before that seemed easy in theory that were a major pain.

    BB, soon as I get a 256 die I can get into my press Iíll try just shovein some in. I was thinking if Hornady doesnít want this die back I might chase the threads on it and open it up some for a forming die.
     
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    Ahh, an interesting project. I owned Contender barrels in the caliber and a Ruger single shot revolver (?) in the caliber and have made brass from the 357. I think I have a cut off 7.62x39 sizing die to use as an interim form die. You cannot go from 35 to 25 in one step. I do think brass is available though if you check around. Marlin did make a funky lever gun, a model 62 I think, in 256 and 30 Carbine calibers. I think it was called lever-matic. I had one when I was a kid in 256 Win mag. Sounds like fun.
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    Yup brass is available from Midway, currently as ďout of stock, backorder okayĒ but that usually means under 30 days with Midway. I believe it to be Starline brass with a Midway head stamp like most of the 10mm brass I have on hand these days. In my quick perusing the web I didnít find any other sources of new but I bet there are some around if a guy looked harder for it.

    My 7.62X25 die worked great getting them down to 30. Iím hoping Hornady will let me keep the defective die so I can grind it open giving me a dedicated intermediate die. If I hadnít paid so much for that bad die I would just dress the threads and use it, the ID all mikes out great on it.

    I plan to do these guns up fairly nice with good fitting out and a rust brown or blue. May even make up some pattern welded damascus small parts, I have some billets I welded up that have been sitting around for years now anyway. Don't know yet what I'll do with the ugly wood that you find on most new Rossis though.

    By the way Murphy, what the heck is a "single shot revolver" anyway? Miss type of single action or you talking about some other kind of critter that Ruger made?
    Andy
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    Quote Originally Posted by ADfields View Post
    By the way Murphy, what the heck is a "single shot revolver" anyway? Miss type of single action or you talking about some other kind of critter that Ruger made?
    I'll let Murphy answer for himself, but you'll like the answer! Set aside some money for the onset of a new quest.

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    I use the 30 Mauser die (almost 7.62x25) for my intermediate die also with imperial or unique lube and only lose one now and then. I have a bunch of 357 brass so I don't mind losing a few. Andy, you can use my dies if you can't get Hornady to fix you up quick enough. I have noticed my 256 contender is really picky about the bullets it likes with the 86gr rem being one of the better ones.

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    I called Hornady Monday and they said no problem sending a new die body out. About an hour later I got an email saying it shipped USPS flat rate so I expect it Friday or Saturday, heck it may be in my box right now. Hornady so far seems as good at fixing a problum as RCBS and Lee are, all great at it.

    Also should be getting one of the guns in Friday, the octagon I think. There was a shipping delay on the other so itís a couple days behind. I havenít ever done milled octagon barrel before so I want to do the round first, made a bunch of those. Been mocking fixtures up to rough size for the octagon this week, itís a bit more tricky to hold accurate to the centerline than a round. It takes forever to gather up all the little stuff needed but Iím getting close.
    Andy
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    How do you center an octogon barrel? I assume the rifling goes clear to the end of the barrel so using a dial indicator on the inside of the barrel would be difficult. Do you turn a plug for a snug fit in the barrel and then dial off that or what?

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    Quote Originally Posted by rbuck351 View Post
    How do you center an octogon barrel? I assume the rifling goes clear to the end of the barrel so using a dial indicator on the inside of the barrel would be difficult. Do you turn a plug for a snug fit in the barrel and then dial off that or what?
    Well with any barrel blank the hole is never truly in the middle so you canít indicate off the OD to line up the ID. Say you had a smooth chamber in the end you could indicate and you zero that, you still canít tell if the rest of the hole is in line or not . . . most likely not, an inch in you could be .005Ē out but how do you find out. You use a very straight stiff rod about 6Ē into the hole and 6Ē out. They make ground rods and graduated bushings for this but I use a long deep hole drill bit and make two bushings to fit because IĎm cheap. With the rod aligned and tight to the ID and you indicate off the part sticking out in two places, near and far, make it zero in both places and you are concentric or cantered to the machine and any work will be also. Itís a pain but a concentric chamber and threads with a true 90* shoulder to the bore (not the outside) is important to accuracy. Now a reamer pilot will follow the bore all on its own and keep that lined up if you let it, this is why hand reaming is fine but to face, thread, and turn a true 90* shoulder it must be centered like I describe.
     
    The thing about the octagon making it harder is I need to cut the flats onto a round, I find no off the rack .257Ē 1 in 14 octagon blanks out there. So I need the bore ID held true with the mill table ignoring the outside so the bore stays centered. It needs to be supported along the whole cut in a way it canĎt deflect away from my tool when cutting, and held tightly so it wont chatter or flex in the middle somehow. I need to be able to set it up like this at least 8 different times (maybe 16 times if I got to move clamps around) and the outside profile will be a different shape to hold onto every time which means this is a pain to set up for. In the old days they just forged the flats with a mandrill inside the rough bore before cutting the finish ID and rifling, so octagon was less work than round back in the day. Once you have the tooling itís not that bad but I got to build tools and work out the bugs on top of building the gun the first time around. After the flats are cut it will mount for threading and chambering just like a round does because the lathe fixture holds from 4 sides and I just catch 4 flats.
    Andy
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    I see. I thought you were starting with an octagon blank. Yeah, once you get the flats cut centered on the bore, then it can easily be centered with a 4 jaw using the snug fit shaft. Are you cutting any taper on the flats or will it be same size end to end?

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    Iím thinking I will duplicate the factory profile on the octagon whatever that is as long as the balance feels good.
     
    I picked up the first gun today, it was the round barrel. A little time with a mike and ruler shows a .038Ē per foot taper on this one. Slightly different than my other two Italy made 357s (this one is Rossi/Taurus made in Brazil) that arenít the same as each other ether, external profile on these seems to be rather random.
    Andy
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    Well just got back from the mail box, them nuts at Hornady sent me a replacement die with the same problem. This one isnít as bad, no chatter and it threads in fine so Iíll just run with it but I am gonna send them this picture in hopes they can fix their issues. I get to keep both dies so I ainít griping, their service was exultant. Other than nobody catching this (twice) and their poor choice of steel supplier they dun great by me.

    DSC_0002Ba.jpg
    Andy
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    Wow!

    Back-to-back failures in quality control.
    Afflicted by condition human

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    Improvise and overcome!!

    Maybe I missed this along the way, but are you building this as a varmint gun or just a project?
    Somewhere along the way I have lost the ability to act politically correct. If you should find it, please feel free to keep it.

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