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Thread: Charter boat taxes?

  1. #1
    Premium Member kasilofchrisn's Avatar
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    Default Charter boat taxes?

    This question was asked on another thread and not answered. I do not intend this to be a continuation of that thread.
    As we all know oil companies in Alaska pay a royality to the state and federal goverment on the profits of every barrel of oil they extract. Mining companies pay a royality on what they extract.
    According to the Alaska Department of Revenue commercial fisheries also pay a tax based on how much of our resources they export. http://www.tax.alaska.gov/programs/p...dex.aspx?60620

    So here it is and I DO NOT want to know and DID NOT ASK what an individual boat,captain,charter,or lodge paid.
    This is a simple yes or no question.

    DO COMMERCIAL CHARTER BOATS PAY ANY TAXES TO THE STATE OR FEDERAL GOVERMENT FOR THE EXTRACTION OF OUR RESOURCES THAT IS FACILITATED THROUGH THEIR BOAT, LODGE ETC.?

    I could not get anybody to answer on the other thread so if you know please answer this with one word YES or NO.
    Thank you.
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  2. #2

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    do you mean taxes other than 1) license fees paid by tourists to the state for 1 day to 2 week license, 2) additional salmon tags, 3) rental car taxes, 4) airport taxes, 5) hotel taxes, 6) state and local sales taxes ? Someone help me out, am I leaving any other taxes out?

  3. #3
    Member Alaskanmutt's Avatar
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    "DO COMMERCIAL CHARTER BOATS PAY ANY TAXES TO THE STATE OR FEDERAL GOVERMENT FOR THE EXTRACTION OF OUR RESOURCES THAT IS FACILITATED THROUGH THEIR BOAT, LODGE ETC.?"

    Sounds pretty self explanatory to me. Oil Companies pay a royalty to the State. Miners pay a royalty to the State. Commercial Fishermen pay a percentage on what is exported.

    Do commercial guide services (i.e. charter boats and lodges) pay a royalty to the State or Federal governments? Per fish, per pound etc.

    superdave, all the stuff you mention is paid by the fishermen not the charter boat or lodge. No one mentioned the individual person, just the commercial guide.
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  4. #4

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    Actually, commercial fisherman don't pay a percentage of their catch. According to his link at least, it's paid by the processor or exporter. Maybe that's factored into the price they pay, but it's an indirect tax on the commercial fisherman, not a direct tax because he doesn't pay it.

    Similarly, the guide is providing a service to fisherman who pay for the right to access that resource through purchasing a license and stamp. That's the payment the state receives for the resource.

  5. #5
    Premium Member kasilofchrisn's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Alaskanmutt View Post
    "DO COMMERCIAL CHARTER BOATS PAY ANY TAXES TO THE STATE OR FEDERAL GOVERMENT FOR THE EXTRACTION OF OUR RESOURCES THAT IS FACILITATED THROUGH THEIR BOAT, LODGE ETC.?"

    Sounds pretty self explanatory to me. Oil Companies pay a royalty to the State. Miners pay a royalty to the State. Commercial Fishermen pay a percentage on what is exported.

    Do commercial guide services (i.e. charter boats and lodges) pay a royalty to the State or Federal governments? Per fish, per pound etc.

    superdave, all the stuff you mention is paid by the fishermen not the charter boat or lodge. No one mentioned the individual person, just the commercial guide.
    Exactly!
    All I asked for was a yes or no answer.
    I was looking to see what the charter operator pays.
    And last I checked I never have paid a state sales tax in Alaska.
    Superdave if you have been paying one you are falling for a scam.
    "The closer I get to nature the farther I am from idiots"

    "Fishing and Hunting are only an addiction if you're trying to quit"

  6. #6
    Premium Member kasilofchrisn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superdave View Post
    Actually, commercial fisherman don't pay a percentage of their catch. According to his link at least, it's paid by the processor or exporter. Maybe that's factored into the price they pay, but it's an indirect tax on the commercial fisherman, not a direct tax because he doesn't pay it.

    Similarly, the guide is providing a service to fisherman who pay for the right to access that resource through purchasing a license and stamp. That's the payment the state receives for the resource.
    Again not what I asked.
    I am wondering whether or not guides pay a royalty type tax on the resources they facilitate the harvest of. That is all.
    I am guessing the answer is NO.

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  7. #7

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    Ok Kris, answer this one yes or no. Does a commercial fisherman pay a tax on his catch, yes or no please. Oh and read your link before answering.

  8. #8

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    Halibut and Sablefish fishermen pay a tax. And most salmon fishermen pay a tax. IFQ tax goes to NMFS to help pay for the program and enforcement. Salmon tax usually goes to the regional aquaculture association for enhancement projects, which sportfishermen also benefit from. Soon, IFQ fishermen will also pay another tax to cover costs of the new upcoming observer programs.

  9. #9

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    Trollers pay a 3% salmon enhancement tax. It adds up to real money by the end of the season. They do harvest a lot of salmon though.

    I'm not so sure you could say that charter boat captains "extract" the resource. They provide a service that allows others to do it themselves.

    As for a tax for charter clients.. I then think it should apply to all sport fishermen, as it's sport fishermen that are removing the fish from the ocean. I don't think we'd need to discriminate between charter and private, and resident and non resident.

    Would you purpose a "tag" system for salmon, halibut, and bottom fish? $5 a tag per fish that has been removed? (extracted) At the beginning of the season you could buy 50 tags to cover you for the year? Would the money be put in the PFD fund, or be used for fish enhancement? How would you purpose we do this?

  10. #10
    Member AKCAPT's Avatar
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    Charter operators pay sales tax on all revanue earned from guideing anglers for all species, regardless if they catch fish or not. unlike commercial fishermen who pay tax on how many fish they catch, we pay taxes on how many fishermen we catch, even they do not retain any fish at all. Currently, 7% is paid to the city and Borough. In Seward we also pay 3.50 cents for every client that walks down the dock and gets on our boats, under the guise of a "port fee". I take about 2000 fishermen out a summer.....@ 7 % tax and a 3.50 port fee.....27 dollars for every fishermen,no matter what they catch. I personally pay about 54 thousand dollars a year in taxes from my business soley for taking people fishing _ that is not counting any taxes for consumables like fuel, bait, tackle etc...
    In addition, the sales of required sport fishing licenses, fund State management of sport fishing.

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    Sure, and all that is great for the local economy..........but that isn't what was asked. How much in tax did you pay for the amount of fish harvested by your boat? Or did you pay any for the actaul Halibut/rockfish/salmon/whatever caught, not other value added type taxes. Yes or no.

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    kasilofchrisn, Charter Boats do not pay a tax for catching fish! The reason for that is very simple, Charters can't sell fish! Private anglers catch sport fish while fishing from a charter. If you want to tax the harvest of fish for all sport anglers count me in, be carful what you ask for you might just get it

  13. #13

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    I love it when people try to compare charter fishing to commercial fishing.. and now they are trying to compare it to the oil industry? Wow, people must have a good deal of time on their hands, and not a whole lot of experience.

    Maybe I'll start a thread asking questions that I already know the answers for.


    Anyway, anybody want to come up with some good proposals to Kasilhof on how we could tax each individual fish removed from the ocean by sport fishermen, who have already purchased a fishing license? Apparently he's wanting a bigger pfd.

  14. #14

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    He doesn't want to tax everyone for every fish, just non-residents and anyone that doesn't have their own boat. He's got a real axe to grind against non-residents and charter captains. Apparently one of the two must have wronged him in a previous life or in some way infringed on his rights. That or he's just crazy. Apparently, all the fish are his.

    Maybe we should think up other taxes to put on people that aren't K-chris. You could make NR's buy licenses authorizing the NR to breathe the air. Maybe force restaurants to collect a cover charge from non-residents at the door that gets remitted to the state. It's really ludicrous.

  15. #15

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    Seems to be the mentality. Everybody caused the halibut stocks to decline, except the private boaters. Everybody should be cut back, except the private boaters. And now... everybody should be taxed for extracting the resource.. except the private boaters.

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    The simple answer to the question is NO.

    Charters DO NOT pay tax on the public's resource that they profit from - fish they land.

    That is exactly why the charter guys can only talk about value-added tax, and distract from the truth by dragging privates, non-residents, and taxing everyone but themselves, into the discussion. And then make personal accusations against the person who asked the original question - shoot the messenger rather than just answer the question truthfully.

    MHG55 needs to realize that a charter doesn't have to directly sell fish to incur a resource use tax. Simply taking or landing them commercially is enough. So the service that charters provide (fishing the public's resource for money), and the fact it is the charter itself that hunts, kills, lands, and transports the fish, is enough to impose a basic resource use tax.

    270ti needs to realize that charter fishing is a type of commercial fishing. Therefore it can be compared with reard to taxing public resources taken commercially. Also, a sport fishing license only authorizes a person to fish, not how or what method he chooses to fish. A person choosing to fish commercially, with a charter, will be subject to commercial charter regulations, including any tax programs. Trying to drag non-commercial users in on that is apples and oranges. Privates don't have the luxury, easy access, or efficiency of commercial services. Yes, both are sportfishermen with the same licence, but only charter anglers provide incentive and profits of commercial charter landings.

    Most all commercial businesses profiting from the public's resource are directly taxed. I would certainly support weighing the commercial charter's landings at the dock (or taking them from the log book), taxing the commercial charters for it, and giving the revenues back to the U.S. public who actually owns those fish. That is fair. I have no idea why some think commercial charters should get special exemptions and exceptions from a direct direct resource use tax when other commercial fisheries don't.

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    Charters and guides suck. They make money hand over fist taking my fish. They have taken so many that I have a tough time finding any fish to catch. If we didn't have this huge, untaxed charter fleet I would be able to catch halibut easier with my family. It is their fault that I can't catch fish.

    Taxes are a great way to get money from all those big buisness that exploit our resources. If we take money from them and give it to the government it will be a much better use. And there is no way a charter would pass the tax on to the guy that is going fishing for "his resource". The money will come from the deep pockets of the charter operator. More taxes will help the government make my fishing better!

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    Member AKHunterNP's Avatar
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    What a great first post Funstastic, if that is your first post. So with your way of thinking, anyone who helps someone else harvest a fish or animal in Alaska should be taxed? Hunting guides, transporters, outfitters? The are doing the same thing a fishing charter CPT does. Who do you actually think is going to pay that tax? It isn't going to be the CPT, or the guide, or the pilot. It's going to be the hunter or the fisherman. I don't see how a charter boat is anywhere near a commercial fishing boat. If they had to pay a special tax just because of their line of work it would just make it more expensive because they would have to recoup the cost somehow, and guess who it would come from? So I guess if any of us want to catch our own halibut, lingcod, rockfish or whatever then we just need to buy our own boats right?
    "...arms like laws discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe...Horrid mischief would ensue were the good deprived of the use of them." -Thomas Paine

  19. #19
    Member AKHunterNP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yukon View Post
    Charters and guides suck. They make money hand over fist taking my fish. They have taken so many that I have a tough time finding any fish to catch. If we didn't have this huge, untaxed charter fleet I would be able to catch halibut easier with my family. It is their fault that I can't catch fish.

    Taxes are a great way to get money from all those big buisness that exploit our resources. If we take money from them and give it to the government it will be a much better use. And there is no way a charter would pass the tax on to the guy that is going fishing for "his resource". The money will come from the deep pockets of the charter operator. More taxes will help the government make my fishing better!
    Yukon, are you a guide? It's hard to tell if that's sarcasm or not.
    "...arms like laws discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe...Horrid mischief would ensue were the good deprived of the use of them." -Thomas Paine

  20. #20

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    Funtastic - that's a well thought out post but similar to AK hunter I disagree with a couple of your points. The guide doesn't catch or keep the resource. People on his boat that legally paid for a fishing license that the state factors into their fee and license structure (ie. a Tax) are the ones catching and keeping the resource. Why should a charter captain pay a tax, on TOP of the tax already paid by the people fishing on the boat? Again these aren't commercial customers, they are citizens that paid for a fishing license.

    It's really no different than a person paying an airport tax. The airline collects it from the person flying it and remits it to the federal, state and local governments, but it's the individual that flies that pays for it, the airline is just a middle-man. Should the airline now have to pay an additional effectively identical tax on top of the one already collected from the passengers?

    For a charter guide, the tax was collected by the state and then he provides the service. Identical to the airline example except the tax transaction is directly between the govt and the individual. Without the guide, the govt wouldn't get their tax so the govt thinks it's a fair trade.

    There are tons of places in the world where the guides license actually covers the people fishing on his boat and he has to pay a tax related to each person that fishes but then he's just right back to being a middle-man like the airline in my example.

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