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Thread: bear in a barrel

  1. #1

    Question bear in a barrel

    Seriously...not being confrontational, I've not hunted anything in my life over bait and was wondering what the challenges are in doing so? Someone said that there are three classes of baiters: novice, expert and masters, but they could have been refering to levels of classes one needs to attend to be certified?

  2. #2

    Default Well...

    After you haul your tree stand, your barrel, and your bait to your bait site then you will see the challenge...Seriously
    ...Jackie Bushman is a TOOL

  3. #3
    Moderator Daveinthebush's Avatar
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    Default Hunting

    Baiting allows one to accomplish many goals. The bears come in and you have the opportunity to watch them for quite some time before deciding if you want to harvest an animal. Often when a bear is seen out in the woods or grass meadows, you may not see if it has cubs. Usually the sow trees the cubs and comes in first. If the area is secure and she feels safe she will let the cubs come in. Henceforth, baiting allows one to be very selective and not harvest sows with cubs.

    There is also the opportunity to be selective with the bears that we do harvest. You have time to judge and select the larger boars. It takes some practice but after a while you can pretty much look at any bear and judge it within a few inches. There are some very old boars out there and those are the ones we want to harvest.

    It also allows you to wait for a good clean shot and thusly make a clean kill. If you let the bear come in and relax, you will have ample time to judge size, sex and maturity. You do not have to rush the shot. If your one of those buck fever people, it will allow you to relax and be more efficient in your marksmanship.

    Most of the cover in Prince William Sound is extremely dense and never flat. Bears can be seen and you have seconds to make a decision to shoot. Most people are not that good in a matter of seconds to be able to determine size or sex of an animal. This is where may sows with cubs are killed in the split second of decision-making.

    Sitting in a tree stand, birds singing, eagles chirping and the smell of the woods is very relaxing. I film birds, martins, squirrels and a lot of bears. Hunting or baiting is more than killing. It is an experience and to some of us a lifestyle.

    As far as your last question on the levels of qualifications of baiters, there is no such thing. Some are armatures and some do better than others. But it is only those that think that they know everything there is to know that are probably offical master-baiters.

    Vietnam - June 70 - Feb. 72
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  4. #4

    Default Lot harder than you would imagine

    Quote Originally Posted by Maydog View Post
    Seriously...not being confrontational, I've not hunted anything in my life over bait and was wondering what the challenges are in doing so? Someone said that there are three classes of baiters: novice, expert and masters, but they could have been refering to levels of classes one needs to attend to be certified?

    Baiting for black bears is not as easy as most would think. For starters not all habitat holds good numbers of bears. The first thing you have to do is find a good location that has bears in the area and not just one bear but numbers. I have had baits that were awesome and dozens of other baits that just did not produce. You might have one bear visit those baits, never consistently and though you might be getting hit, patterning the bear can be quite difficult. Then theres the headache of having a 500lb griz overhaul your baitstation and kill the black bear activity to some degree not to mention the destruction done. Lots of bugs and messy work hauling grease and dog food out to baits, crossing creeks, hydrolocking wheelers, you ought to give it a try. Heck just the gas bill from baiting season can be a challenge these days. You'll quickly find out its not as easy as you'd think, but when it does all comes together its bitter sweet.

  5. #5
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    Default

    Excellent post Dave!

    I think alot of incorrect information comes from antis that will tell people that baiters "throw a doughnut; shoot a bear" without knowing just how far off the mark they are.

    If baiting was easy, they'd call it a hobby, not an obsession...

  6. #6

    Talking baiting

    So you would consider location as number one challenge, then stand location (tree or ground blind...which is better, having the choice?) and then what about bait options? Everyone probably has their own secret formula. I can see where viewing could be beneficial, especially the sow/cub combo. I also take it that one can't hunt griz over bait...is this correct? Weapons seem to be more of of a personal choice, but I can see that the big bore would really shine at the ranges you talk about, so no one needs to rush out and buy a 338-378 mag with a range finding laser scope.

  7. #7
    Moderator Daveinthebush's Avatar
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    Default Deer Hunting

    Think like a deer hunter when baiting bears. Watch your wind, his nose is probably his best defense. Keep some background cover behind you. Bring lots of hooks for hanging gear up. Think like a dee hunter using a stand. Cover helps make the bears feel more secure.

    If you use the search feature you will find a lot of information in the archives.

    Bait = dog food. Cheaper, easier to carry, bears love it.

    You may not take a brown bear over bait. You "used to" be able to but I just re-read the regulations and see nothing in the predator control areas listed theis year.

    Vietnam - June 70 - Feb. 72
    Cancer from Agent Orange - Aug. 25th 2012
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  8. #8

    Default Yea,but

    I also take it that one can't hunt griz over bait...is this correct? Weapons seem to be more of of a personal choice, but I can see that the big bore would really shine at the ranges you talk about, so no one needs to rush out and buy a 338-378 mag with a range finding laser scope.[/quote]

    You can hunt grizzlies over naturally occuring bait; A dead moose or caribou carcass or a gut pile as long as you don't move it. I don't believe you can hunt grizzlies at a bait station (you used to in predator control areas) haven't read the new regs. through enough yet though. You can also set up and hunt blueberry patches and salmon streams (bear tastes fishy on the streams though).
    You'll get as many ideas on the best gun to use as what new car to buy. Pick something with 30-06 or greater power for hunting baits and shoot it well, you'll be set.
    " Americans will never need the 2nd Amendment, until the government tries to take it away."

    On the road of life..... Pot holes keep things interesting !

  9. #9

    Default Walked right into that one

    Quote Originally Posted by Daveinthebush View Post
    As far as your last question on the levels of qualifications of baiters, there is no such thing. Some are armatures and some do better than others. But it is only those that think that they know everything there is to know that are probably offical master-baiters.
    Now that's funny right there I don't care who you are

  10. #10
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    Default Lotsa fine points to it.

    About 200 yards from my fathers Cabin in Wisconsin is the start of the densest blackies in Wisconsin. Our neighbor has been baiting bears for 35 years and has definitely tuned it to a find art. Everything from rigging his stations so they don't get cleaned out, to safe places for a stand, to safe approaches to that stand, to picking good areas, to understanding knowing what is and isn't a good bear and nearly managing his own herd in our area. Other folks have tried in the area but it's big woods for the midwest with little agriculture so the bears really roam, and most of them pack it up after a season, while he bags em everytime he sets someone up. The dragging heavy bait, stand, etc plus the gas bill sounds like a huge hassle to me, but I know that the folks that succeed consistently are a breed apart. Personally, I would really like to take one without bait but appreciate the knowledge it takes to use bait. The "throw a donut, shoot a bear" scenario is kind of like saying baitfishermen are all hacks....also not true, some of those guys are like master craftsmen in maximizing that method.

    Where I grew up folks bait whitetails too....but that's just ridiculous.

  11. #11

    Default Really

    Where I grew up folks bait whitetails too....but that's just ridiculous.[/quote]

    I used to think that baiting whitetails was a lazy mans way of hunting deer. ENTER, BOG. Now in a lot of counties in Texas whitetails have to have a spread over 13", it doesn't matter if they have 26 points or have a rack that is 32" tall it has to exceed 13" in width. Yep, even if it's a B&C or P&Y deer it has to exceed the width spread. The baiting of deer lets the hunter evaluate deer and avoid fines.
    " Americans will never need the 2nd Amendment, until the government tries to take it away."

    On the road of life..... Pot holes keep things interesting !

  12. #12
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    Default Um, NO

    Brav01 Baiting for whitetails IS a lazyman's way. Nobody is subsisting on Whitetails and they are usually as prevalent as rats, racoons and coyotes. I have shot all but 5 of my 30 whitetails from the ground and way more than half of that thirty was still hunting with a bow. Baiting just means you can sit on your can in the same spot and not really think about actual hunting. Their densities and propensity to eat corn in a bucket (even in ag land) make them a much different monster than blackbears. I shot one doe when I was 14 from a baitstation with my bow....I felt sick afterward, I thought it would be exciting to have so many animals to choose from, but I was just inundated with animals and the thrill was gone. She was tasty but I could have nearly as easily taken one otherwise and since have...repeatedly, she just wouldn't have been surrounded by 5 others.

    I hunted michigan with some buddies years ago and when they all went out to their baitstations each morning, i went on a slow stalk with my 270 or posted on a likely spot. At the end of both years I hunted there, my meatpole was full...and theirs was not....for whitetails, if you want to better your game, corn, turnips, rutabagas, pumpkins etc. are not the answer.

    Here's a question....should we allow baiting up here so hunters can better evaulate 50 inch moose, or a full curl ram....which I guarantee is harder than judging a 13 inch whitetail....which is a dink anyway, with a spread like that, it would have to have 234 points and be 30 inches tall with spiraling beams to be Pope and Young....not to mention a Booner. PUhleeeeze. It's called quality deer management. QDM for short.

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    Default Dang it

    I tried to edit this but was a minute too late, tried not to get too testy on this sidetracked message above but this is a real sore subject for me so sorry if it sounds a little hot. I would like to ask how the use of bait to aid in judging moose or sheep would be any different than the situation Brav01 brought up? Or ignore me and let's keep talkin bears

  14. #14
    Member lab man's Avatar
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    Default bear baiting

    The biggest reason I bait bears is because there really isn't any other productive way to hunt them in unit 20A. There is just way to much timber and marsh to spot and stalk. Bear baiting is one of my passions, and I get much more of a thrill watching bears than shooting one. If anyone has ever had a sow and cubs come into the bait, you'll know what I'm talking about. Just last year I had a 2 year old bite my practice arrow in half(it took a few minutes for me to laugh), then decide to take a nap directly under my stand. Did anyone know bears have dreams like dogs? This one was growling and twitching in his sleep! I never would have seen this if it wasn't for baiting. Baiting bears isn't really that hard when I compare it to my recent goat hunt in Juneau, but the bears take much more time and patience.

    If any people are skeptical of baiting, I would be more than happy to take them out for an all nighter on one of my stands. We may not see many bears, but sighting just one is worth it.

    -Eric

  15. #15

    Default baiter

    Don't know about you guys, but I've done it enough by now to be a master...

  16. #16

    Default Really

    Quote Originally Posted by Catch It View Post
    Brav01 Baiting for whitetails IS a lazyman's way. Nobody is subsisting on Whitetails and they are usually as prevalent as rats, racoons and coyotes. Baiting just means you can sit on your can in the same spot and not really think about actual hunting. Their densities and propensity to eat corn in a bucket (even in ag land) make them a much different monster than blackbears.


    Here's a question....should we allow baiting up here so hunters can better evaulate 50 inch moose, or a full curl ram....which I guarantee is harder than judging a 13 inch whitetail....which is a dink anyway, with a spread like that, it would have to have 234 points and be 30 inches tall with spiraling beams to be Pope and Young....not to mention a Booner. PUhleeeeze. It's called quality deer management. QDM for short.
    I don't actually know very many people who subsist on bear or moose. They may hunt'em and they may eat'em but to say that is the predominate food source would be WAAAAAY out there, nearly anything you could buy is cheaper than what you could harvest in the wilds. How many coyotes have you harvested recently since they are so prevalant? The #4 non-typical whitetail in B&C wouldn't be legal in some counties in Texas to take even though it scored 295.
    Think about it like this IF you ran across a moose that antlers past his hips and wasn't 50" wide and didn't have 3 brow tines, yes it's a world record but you can't shoot it. As far as using bait for moose,what for ? Most just stand there and look like you fell from the sky. The hardest part is getting the donkey out of the swamp. As for baiting sheep, if you want to carry a bait station to the top of a mountain(we know using a plane or ATV isn't sporting,RIGHT) go for it. IF you get a sheep to stick his head in a barrel,PLEASE take a picture. As for bears I like to take pictures you don't have to skin a picture.
    Everyone has their own opinion.
    " Americans will never need the 2nd Amendment, until the government tries to take it away."

    On the road of life..... Pot holes keep things interesting !

  17. #17
    Member barrowdave's Avatar
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    Default Whitetail baiting

    Have to agree to disagree about whitetail baiting. I have hunted with some great outdoorsmen all my life who are now in their late sixties, seventies and 80's; in fact my dad is 91 and still going to camp. These gentlemen would not be able to still hunt, or go on drives; plus they cannot take the cold. So for them to still be able to enjoy the outdoors they love so much they have a blind, small heater and a bait pile. If they see a deer it brings them great joy, even a doe and fawns. Don't see a thing wrong with this. I don't know where you hunted in Michigan but where we hunt in the UP you are da great white hunter if you see a buck! So they aren't as thick as rats by any means. I don't hunt a bait pile but if I wanted to I sure wouldn't feel bad about it. Now if you are talking Texas or one of those places where deer outnumber people I would agree with you. thanks, Dave

  18. #18
    Member Erik in AK's Avatar
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    Default

    Baiting, done right is a lot of work and allows the hunter to be selective.

    A suspended bait barrel saved me from shooting a wet sow once.

    Big bear, well over 6', came in alone, sniffed around a bit and circled the bait a few times. I knocked an arrow and waited for a good shot angle to draw. I suspended my barrel to keep from wasting bait on cubs and scavangers. When she stood to reach in to drag out a paw-full, her distended, milk-swollen teats were obvious even in the half-light of midnight.

    She woofed lightly down her backtrail and I heard the tell-tale scratching of something coming down a tree. A minute later here comes 3 small cubs.

    I baited a total of 5 seasons in the hopes of a 6 foot or better bear. I have passed up several 5 footers and have had keepers shot off my bait (that's another story) but I have yet to shoot a bear over bait.

  19. #19
    Member akrstabout's Avatar
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    Default Brov01

    I eat bear and moose and whatever I happen to be able to harvest. Plus salmon and halibut. That is what I eat primarily. I buy burritos and a little from costco now and then for easy meals. But I have not bought beef or pork in years. That is why we hunt, me anyways. If you are going to spend the money to go hunting better be ready to live off of what you kill. Way cheaper this way too. I am going to spend the money any way to go hunting, that is a given expence. So if it will last me 6 month to a year then that is priceless. I don't think I qualify for the subsistance hunts but I do live off of what I kill. So pretty much a meat hunter. The bigger is always better but if we are seeing cows and have a cow permit then cow it is. If it is only a 5er then that it is. Better then coming home empty handed and still out the money it costs. To me it pays for me to hunt and eat what i kill.

  20. #20

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by akrstabout View Post
    I eat bear and moose and whatever I happen to be able to harvest. Plus salmon and halibut. That is what I eat primarily. I buy burritos and a little from costco now and then for easy meals. But I have not bought beef or pork in years. That is why we hunt, me anyways. If you are going to spend the money to go hunting better be ready to live off of what you kill. Way cheaper this way too. I am going to spend the money any way to go hunting, that is a given expence. So if it will last me 6 month to a year then that is priceless. I don't think I qualify for the subsistance hunts but I do live off of what I kill. So pretty much a meat hunter. The bigger is always better but if we are seeing cows and have a cow permit then cow it is. If it is only a 5er then that it is. Better then coming home empty handed and still out the money it costs. To me it pays for me to hunt and eat what i kill.

    I can relate to this, as I am the same way. As for brav01 post claiming it is cheaper to buy in the store, I hardly think so in my case. I process my own meat as well, which greatly reduces the total cost for the year. It may cost me 200$ to put a moose in the freezer, total cost.

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