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Thread: The open seat program.

  1. #1

    Default The open seat program.

    I have mentioned this great Idea to a couple of military folks and it is definitly something they will be looking forward to. To me it is a great way to say thanks to the men and women that are serving our great nation. I will be posting on that thread as often as I can. I sure hope there are lots of folks here that can and will,because I have a feeling there will be an overwhelming response. God Bless and thanks for bringing this idea to fruition.

  2. #2
    Moderator AKmud's Avatar
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    Hopefully it will get used a lot! I can remember on more than one occasion where all my usual buddies were tied up for some reason or another and I was itching to go.

    I remember one time my buddy stood me up at 4am for a silver trip to the Little Su. I was more than a little peeved when I banged on his door and he met me in his underwear! I decided to go without him.

    I don't normally like running my boat solo but was determined to go fishing. When I was going by the My creek trailhead almost to the Little Su launch, I saw a guy putting on his hip boots to make the mile hike. I stopped and rolled down my window and invited him along on the spot. I didn't know him from Adam but he paid the $10 launch fee and we limited out on silvers and had a great time.

    I think this "open seat" thing will work if people are brave enough to invite a stranger and those fortunate enough to tag along don't take advantage of their hosts.
    AKmud
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  3. #3
    Member Swissy's Avatar
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    agreed... after seeing the clip on the news about the 'Wonder Warrior' program and a charter in Kodiak that did it, I think I too will be offering seats up thru the summer.
    '04 Hewescraft 24' Searunner
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  4. #4
    Member Alaska Gray's Avatar
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    I agree with all you. I had a few back out on me a couple of times but i was lucky to find someone. I'm always looking to meet new people and to have a few people on my boat.
    Living the Alaskan Dream
    Gary Keller
    Anchorage, AK

  5. #5
    Member Swissy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alaska Gray View Post
    I agree with all you. I had a few back out on me a couple of times but i was lucky to find someone. I'm always looking to meet new people and to have a few people on my boat.
    yeah... maybe someone can actually teach me what the HELL to do!
    '04 Hewescraft 24' Searunner
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    + multiple other 'toys'...

  6. #6
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    We just need to be very careful how we go about it so no one accuses any of us of illegal guiding. I think we would be ok to take money for the launch fee or gas or bait but might go over the line if we took $40 or 50 from someone. Maybe someone from ADF&G or Parks or the Troopers could chime in with the rules....whatever they might be. They might also be different if we are fishing in a state park, on federal lands or out on the salt.
    FAA makes it pretty clear what a passenger may or may not pay in non-commercial operations. It would be nice if there was something similar for fishing-maybe with a mandatory "bring the beer" provision!

  7. #7
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    Default good point gus

    I am not a trooper but I do know that 40 or 50 bucks would be a nono. I think splitting expenses like gas and launch and beer is ok... i will have some open seats this summer from time to time and if any of our military members can get to kenai on short notice i would be honored to have them take the seat. I will post on here when i have a cancellation or a seat is open. And thanks from me for the sacrifices you are making to help keep us free. If free countries won't fight for freedom who will?

  8. #8
    Forum Admin Brian M's Avatar
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    I would assume that following guidelines similar to the FAA rules would suffice - the passenger can contibute no more than their share of the expenses. If there are four people, the 25% of the fuel, bait, and food would be OK...but probably not a penny more.

  9. #9

    Default expenses

    Have any of you guys been out in the ocean on a boat? $40-$50 to much? A box of bait is $20, lauching,parking, tunnel fees-$10 to $50 depending on were you go. Boat fuel at 2mpg @ 100-200 miles, again depending on where you go-$130-$260. Hooks, weights $10+ if you don't loose any. Fuel for the truck to get there and back @ 10mpg-$20-$104
    Grand total $190 to $444
    For 4 people that = $47.5 to $111 each

    The open seat idea is not going to work if everyone is a tight *****. $40-$50 to much, maybe you should stay on the russian river.

  10. #10

    Default reality of it is . . . . .

    I find it rather ironic that those who don't own a boat are always ready to chip in $20 or $30 bucks for a trip. I will always (and gladly) accept their contribution, but . . . they really have no idea the costs that go into running a boat (my size).

    To drag my boat from Anchorage down to Homer and back: $100-$125.

    Launch fees: $11

    Bait: $30

    Boat gas: $100 - 150 (depending on water conditions, distance traveled, etc . . .)

    Gear lost: $10-16 / rig (on a GOOD trip, we will only lose 3 sets of gear)

    Oil: $30 - 40 (buy it bulk at $80/5gal)

    Wash down at end of the day: $20

    So now you have an idea of what a single, un-decorated trip costs: $325

    But if you want to start getting really techincal, we could always throw in other costs (boat wear, boat repairs, engine maintenance, engine repairs, spare parts, tools, trailer wear, tires, lights, storage, insurance, interest (if pmts are being made), maps, electronics, rods, lures, . . . )

    Bottom line: I have invited many (many) people out. I tell them out front that I do not do this for money and that if (note the IF) they want to contribute something they may. I have had some people pony up $100 at the end of the day. I tell them that they really don't have to contribute that much, but they do anyway. On the other hand, I have had others who offer a 'thanks' and thats it. MOST people I have taken out fall somewhere in between.

    I used to keep a running total of how much it cost me to run the boat and take people out. Talk about depressing. Not only was it costing me mucho dinero ($$$) to take all of those other people out, but I still had all of the other costs (when it wasnt running) that I was shouldering. It was getting to be more of a headache (and pocketbook problem) then it was fun.

    One of my biggest pet peeves when taking people out is that I go out of my way to try and accomodate them, let them use/ABUSE my boat and gear, keep them safe, take them back to port, clean/process the catch, and then they leave. Yes, I realize it is 7:00pm Saturday and that they have a 4-5hr trip back to achorage, but it will be at least 9:00pm before I leave (on that same 5 hr trek) since I still have a lot of mundane cleaning/storing issues that NEED to be done before I can call it a day. Sheesh.

    Last year, I did something different. I came up with a list of people I normally take out. Then I ranked them (5-star system) based on many criteria (enjoyable to take out, willingness to help with basic boat needs, contributions to the cost to operate, complain?, whine when fishing was slow, etc ...)

    Easy to guess who gets the call first when I am looking for people to go fishing now.

    IF this 'open seat' program is to work, not only are the boat owner/operators going to need to be generous, but the open seat recipients are also going to need to be generous (i.e. willingness to contribute not only on the financial end, but with some of the more onerous tasks that go with operating a vessel).

    Just my $.02

    -- Gambler

  11. #11

    Default Yep

    After you buy a boat, you find out who your true friends are...

  12. #12
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    Gambler made some very good points. Those of us who operate on the rivers don't have nearly so much expense, and, living on the peninsula, there is no commute involved so I overlook what a lot of you have to go through. I also have found that there are some folks who help clean fish and the boat etc...and others who don't. Many years ago I quit inviting those who don't back......I don't worry about the cost of gas, launch and other costs of ownership and such so much because I don't use a whole lot of fuel but would spend the same amount even if I went by myself. I will offer seats this season to our military folks who can make it to the Kenai and hope there are a few who can come on down and enjoy the time on the river.

  13. #13
    Moderator Daveinthebush's Avatar
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    Default Sharing

    Just make sure that if you are going to share in costs somehow that you do it via email or a PM instead of posting the information here.

    EXAMPLE ===== I would just post:

    Heading to Whittier on Saturday the 24th and spending the day. Shoot me a PM so we can contact each other via email. Have room for two.

    Vietnam - June 70 - Feb. 72
    Cancer from Agent Orange - Aug. 25th 2012
    Cancer Survivor - Dec. 14th 2012

  14. #14

    Default The way see it:

    I shelled out $32,000 for the boat and I'm running it, towing it with my truck, ect. the fishing buddies can pay for all the other expenses. One guy fills up my truck with diesel afterwards at the station, one guy fills up the boat with gas afterwards, and the third pays for the tunnel fees, launch fees, and parking fees, and the fourth guy can pay for food and bait (for some they might be the same thing :/ ). That way it doesn't cost anyone too much, and everyone is paying for expenses only, no cash changing hands, and it would be pretty difficult for someone to make any accusations of "guiding" fees.
    Hike faster. I hear banjo music.

  15. #15
    Member CanCanCase's Avatar
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    Don't worry about the state's requirements for "guiding".... worry about what the USCG says about passengers for hire and whether or not you have a captain's license.

    USCG says your guests can contribute money to cover expenses (one guy CAN cover costs for all aboard), but only if it's NOT a requirement of the trip. If you say, "come for a ride on my boat and pay for fuel" then they're a passenger for hire and you'll need to be licensed.

    If you've already got a capt. license, why not just go spend $100 to get a sportfish guide license from the state? Then you're covered no matter how much or how little one chooses to pay.

    -Case
    M/V CanCan - 34' SeaWolf - Bandon, OR
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  16. #16
    Member Alaska Gray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gambler View Post
    I
    To drag my boat from Anchorage down to Homer and back: $100-$125.
    Gambler

    Man if I could olny spend that much. Last year it cost me $200-$225 round trip.


    I did have a friend that had answer two inquries about accepting money from people. They have no clue who did this.

    This is a touching thing here. Things are not cheap and most people are willing to help out with the cost. but There is a thing with the accepting money and not being a guide. My two cents is As long as you are not advertising nor making a profit from it. I see no reason why your friends can help you with the cost of going out.
    Living the Alaskan Dream
    Gary Keller
    Anchorage, AK

  17. #17

    Default

    Thats just the thing AK Gray, this is a public forum and someone jumps on each week saying they have a seat open only to those paying for fuel you are advertising. Way I see it "you" bought the boat, pony up and pay for the cost to use it, if someone jumps along for free and asks to help out, call that guy back next time you go out, not his feeloading friend that did nothing but break a rod. Don't be jumping on this forum to find enough guys to cover your costs just so you can use your boat to go fishing, should have thought about that before you bought the bigger motor or the longer boat.
    I think that it is fine to find some buddies to go fihing with and have no problem, i just think it can be overly abused by posting a price....you should just say free open seat next saturday, you are looking for someone to fish with not pay your gas out to Montague so you can fish.
    Sorry I used you alot in here, i was not refering to anyone in general. Happy bunny day

  18. #18
    Member Alaska Gray's Avatar
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    I agree wih what you are saying...
    Living the Alaskan Dream
    Gary Keller
    Anchorage, AK

  19. #19
    Moderator Daveinthebush's Avatar
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    Default Making something from nothing

    Some of you are making something from nothing. In the first four years of owning my boat I was stopped 14-15 times by the troopers and 3-4 by the Coast Guard. Not once has anyone asked me, 'Who is that in the boat with you?"

    I was even stopped once (obviously overloaded to me) by the coasties with four people on board. Boat full to the top with hunting gear and supplies. No one asked if I was guiding or what I was doing. They asked the same basic questions: flares, fire extingusher, first aid kit...... Have a great time guys!

    Just don't put a sign on your boat: U pay Charters

    Vietnam - June 70 - Feb. 72
    Cancer from Agent Orange - Aug. 25th 2012
    Cancer Survivor - Dec. 14th 2012

  20. #20

    Default

    I dont think the point of this sticky or thread is try to get away with it or no one is going to check you.
    the point being this is a public forum and by suggesting open seats for gas is advertisment in a way of looking for someone else to pay your fishing expenses.
    Rogue guiding is a very big problem, and a very hard one at that to prove or bust. By suggesting you add a price on this forum as to what an open seat will cost you (the person without a boat) is in my mind just as good as a rogue guide.
    I would think that being a moderator of this forum you would not suggest that someone should have to pay to go fish with someone that is not a guide.
    It is a open seat sticky, you payed for the boat, you pay for the costs, like i said if someone you dont know wants to tag along and happens to pay for beer etc...... well next time you go invite him and not some other free loader.
    It really is just about making friends that fish, not guys to pay for your trip out to sea.
    We are all in the same boat so to speak with rising operating costs, it is not cheap, but if you can not aford to do it by yourself sell the boat and hire a liscensed charter and save money in the long run.

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