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Thread: Inflatable freighter canoes with Surface Drive motors?

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    Member BluNosDav's Avatar
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    Question Inflatable freighter canoes with Surface Drive motors?

    The SOAR Pro-Pioneer (1500#) and Magnum (2100#) inflatable canoes, are roughly equal in carrying capacity to such hard-shelled canoes as the Scott Albany (1555#) and Hudson Bay (2000#). Wonder how these "inflatable freighters" might perform, if matched-up with one of the smaller Copperhead or Mud Buddy surface drive motors?

    The capability of carrying a substantial load, both upstream & downstream, along with the ability to be deployed & recovered by a small bushplane, sure would be a useful combination here in AK!

    Anyone having real-world experience with such a rig, please share your knowledge.
    Well informed opinions are also welcome.

    Thanx, Dave.
    "Luckily, enforcement reads these forums, and likely will peruse this one...Especially after a link of it is forwarded to them....." - AlaskaHippie.

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    Member mainer_in_ak's Avatar
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    You aint running a surface drive on either of those boats. When I helped the Sotar Rep (Gouex) set up his booth last Sportsman Show, we tried hangin my surface drive off the transom of that Specialty Sotar and it wouldn't work. Mayyyybe you'd get away with the lighter 6.5 coppehead, but that's definitely a maybe. Certainly not the "Aire Traveler" either. I've seen the transom on that model that has it built in, it's feeble to say the least. I understand you're trying to theoretically think out loud here, but it won't work.

    Although your idea isn't a new one, there is one option that may fit what you're looking for, and will get a thorough test this summer.

    I'll be testing the copperhead 6.5 with the Anchorage Saturn-Raft Dealer. I'll let yah know how it goes. We'll be plugging it on the 16 ft. long x 50 in. wide "Kaboat" which is IMO a true square sterned inflatable canoe. I've done raft repairs with this particular chemistry-genius who will be dealing these boats. It'd be nice to have him locally avail for perfectionist repair work. Come along for the test drive if yahd like.

    Here's is a Kaboat if you don't know what it is, there is a larger model of this boat too. The one we've planned to test is much larger than this one:


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    Member mainer_in_ak's Avatar
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    Last but not least,

    Here is the larger Kaboat that will have a home in my boat shed. Once we test the transom and determine if there are any mods, it will certainly make it's way into the cargo area of a plane headed to the Southwest for long trip next season.


  4. #4

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    Mike
    Would like to try the Kaboat with my 8 HP Yamaha 2 stroke SS would make a neat replacment for my Sport Boat that I could transport easily. Kurt


    Hawaian Ocean canoe FS no pic but would be interesting for ideas.

    http://anchorage.craigslist.org/boa/2935222207.html

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    Default impressive inflatable!

    Quote Originally Posted by mainer_in_ak View Post
    Last but not least,

    Here is the larger Kaboat that will have a home in my boat shed. Once we test the transom and determine if there are any mods, it will certainly make it's way into the cargo area of a plane headed to the Southwest for long trip next season.
    Wow, that thing scoots. He was getting 15 mph or better, wasn't he?

    I saw a couple of things to wonder about:

    - it does seem to take on water pretty readily with no spray cover
    - What would be his limits, re: wave height? 2?
    - About 10 minutes into that vid, his bow came up pretty high. Had there been a headwind of about 30 mph or so, it might have turned him under like you see hydrofoil's flip during races.
    - Very impressed with the captain's skill (that boy's gotta learn how to smile for the camera ). I'd have been a little more impressed with the boat if he'd have hit some of those rocks though. Lemme drive that thang and we'll see!

    Overall, very, very impressive. One of those and a small kicker would have a welcome home in the bow of many larger freighter canoes that people here on this forum use, I think.

  6. #6
    Member BluNosDav's Avatar
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    KK - I must be missing something, but, what are you trying to say about that hard-hulled HI canoe with outriggers?

    Mainer - those Saturn Kaboats are very interesting! I'm guessing the the white model "430 Kaboat" in the first video is 4.30 meters long, which would make it a 14-footer in English measurements? It looks like a narrow sportboat with a small hard transom. There's some conventional wisdom that says that hard transoms are not well suited to drifting/rowing downstream, but I don't have any actual experience with that. As long as it's light enough, and folds small enough, to fit into a Super-Cub, it could work? Also, I wonder if a set of Oar Saddles or Row Saddles might be better suited for a heavily loaded Kaboat?

    The larger black SK487 reminds me of the Alaskan Series inflatable Jet Ranger. But, I can't tell from the video what the floor is made of? Again, I'm guessing that the model designation is the length of the boat in meters, so 4.87m = 16 ft? It looks a bit wider than what I would consider to be a "canoe", but what do I know? One of the things that I'm looking for is fuel efficiency, and not necessarily speed, while carrying a heavy load. This is something that freighter canoes are famous for. I know that there are plenty of inflatable sportboats (Zodiacs, Achilles, etc) that can run upstream fast. But, I don't want to have to carry/burn more gallons of fuel, than I can bring back in pounds of meat, and I'd like to carry it in smaller planes, and not need a Beaver or Otter for transport.

    Do you have any specifications for these Kaboats? Especially boat weights and carrying capacities. I'll be anxious to learn how your testing goes!

    I agree with you about the Aire Power Traveler. I don't think Aire was planning to "go upstream" with that design. More likely just for crossing flat-water? For one thing, it's a self-bailing boat, which makes higher speeds problematic.

    I think I saw that SOTAR "moose" raft with a motor mount at the GASS this past weekend. Again, a self-bailing raft, that could use a small outboard to help it cross lakes, or move downstream faster on slow rivers. Not meant to be a real "upstream" boat.

    As for the SOAR PP & M's, they are not self-bailing unless you remove the factory glued-in panels, and I wouldn't try to power them unless the panels were still in place (plus adding a good spray cover). Their motor mounts are made from sections of raft-frame pipe, that are held down between the side-tubes and the inflated floor. I don't know how well they work. Maybe someone who has used one can answer that? But, if they could be extended to run the full length of the canoe, and maybe strengthened with a cross-bar or two, they might provide the necessary rigidity to hold one of the smaller S-D motors?

    Like you said, I'm just "trying to theoretically think out loud here", so keep the ideas rolling in!
    Thanx, Dave.
    "Luckily, enforcement reads these forums, and likely will peruse this one...Especially after a link of it is forwarded to them....." - AlaskaHippie.

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    Member mainer_in_ak's Avatar
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    Exterior Length: 16'
    Exterior Width 50"
    Interior Width: 18"
    Tube Diameter. 16"
    Kayak Packing Size: 45"x17"x13"
    Shipping Box Size: 50"x22"x10"
    Box Weight: 95 lbs
    KaBoat Weight: 89 lbs
    Person Capacity: 3+1
    Weight Capacity 1100 lbs
    Chambers: 4+1
    Material: 1100 Denier PVC
    Air Valves: Halkey-Roberts type valve
    Max. Engine Capacity: 10 HP (or 15HP 2/stroke)
    Inflation time: up to 10 min.


    Judging by the rolled dimensions of an Aire Traveler,
    I'd imagine that the rolled diameter of 2ft and a height of 2.5ft would be possible. 50 inches is not too wide, it's actually quite skinny and would really boast some good fuel efficiency with smaller motors. A copper head 6.5 with the motor unbolted from the frame will fit in a 48 gallon action packer with plenty of space for other things like tools, parts, raft repair kits, and other odd n ends.

    Action packer dimensions:

    ActionPacker® Cargo Box - 48 gal:(#1192)
    Size: 43.8"L x 20"W x 17"H


    The motor and boat would probably weigh around 168 lbs. As far as gas, a small lawn mower engine doesn't burn much. You'd be around 1/4 gallon per hour at wide open throttle.

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    Default OK?

    Quote Originally Posted by BluNosDav View Post
    KK - Perhaps I'm missing something, but I'm not sure a hard-hulled HI canoe with outriggers, has anything to do with a discussion about air-portable inflatable canoes?
    Blu, perhaps I'm missing something, but I'm not sure how a public scolding of a freighter-canoe-veteran of many years about part of his post being off topic has anything to do with a discussion about air-portable inflatable canoes?

    Lighten up buddy. C'mon, OK? This is just a discussion. This isn't a court room.

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    Member mainer_in_ak's Avatar
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    Haha! A court room. I can't go 10 minutes on this forum without finding something to giggle about. Here's something that has nothing to do with the thread:

    Guacamole!


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    Default canoing should be fun

    Quote Originally Posted by mainer_in_ak View Post
    Haha! A court room. I can't go 10 minutes on this forum without finding something to giggle about. Here's something that has nothing to do with the thread
    Ah... that's OK for now, but by tomorrow, Brian will be raining avocados all over your parade Mainer, and the other guy will be blue in the face, instead of just in the nose.

    Between now and then, I say Thanks Mainer, for offering a little "lighten up" dose to this place.

  11. #11

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    Man I just thought it was neat canoe concept Hawaian and a inflatable. At least we are talking canoes!

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    I'm a totally uninformed person regarding blow up toys!!

    I'm guessing the narrow width is to improve efficience and gas mileage...seems to me wider is better, more stable at the expense of a little manueverability.

    Does a 6.5 hp long tail work on a narrow floater? Maybe I'm missing something but the long tail seems to be a better match to a canoe or inflatable...especially in weeds and rocks.
    Somewhere along the way I have lost the ability to act politically correct. If you should find it, please feel free to keep it.

  13. #13

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    Michael, That looks like the boat I am looking for would be ideal to run the section of Kenai around Sterling for Reds, throw in my
    6 Wheeler for moose hunting , fly in trips. Put on the top of the Mini Van and go see Ted in White Horse YT and fish and play on all the lakes between. What do you think the larger boat will sell for?

  14. #14
    Member BluNosDav's Avatar
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    Mainer,
    Thanx for introducing these Kaboats to this thread, and for the Guacamole! Good information and good humor are always appreciated!

    I found the KaBoat web-site and these narrow inflatables to be very interesting. (Plus the prices are reasonable.) With a 50" beam, the 16-footer is not too wide at all. That's actually the same beam as the 18' SOAR Magnum. It just looked relatively wide in the video, compared to the 14-ft model, which has only a 42" beam. Both are fairly lightweight and easily air-portable. Either boat should give good speed and fuel economy with even modest-sized motors. What size S-D motor would you suggest for the 16-footer?


    KK,

    You'll notice that my second post above is very different from the "quote" that was posted afterward by someone else. The reason for this is simple. Immediately after I posted my response, I knew that my reply to you sounded much more stern than I intended, so I hit the "edit" button and rewrote it. It was probably only "up" on this thread for a few minutes. But little did I know, that lurking during those wee hours of the night, was a troll who had already "copied" a select few of my words, in order to post his typical nonsense. Due to his malicious posting, those words have been made a permanent part of this thread. I hope that you will understand that I never meant to offend you. Now, about that Hawaiian canoe . . . . I am actually facinating by outriggers and multi-hulls of all sorts. My family and I spent last week in Hawaii, and I enjoyed watching those big canoes being paddled across the early morning ocean. But, I still have a question? I followed your link, which led me to the following:
    24 ft Hawaiian OutRiggerOceanCanoe - $3000 (anchorage)


    Date: 2012-04-01, 6:39PM AKDT
    Reply to: see below [Errors when replying to ads?]

    24 ft Hawaiian Japanese outrigger ocean going canoe,,has 2 Hawaiian balsa wood omas an pipe outrigger .Canoe has flat back for 15 horse or 25 horse....soft top cover .. live bait well ... fish box,,, it will take some big water,,tested an proved design,,frame is from Mahogany an sides an bottom marine grade ply,,west systems epoxy finish,,comes with trailer an rigging to launch .real economic boat,,can take wave ,,its like a toothpick through the water,, outrigger pulls out 10 ft ,,,,very stable in rough water call 360 9044


    • Location: anchorage
    • it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests


    PostingID: 2935222207

    -------------

    A cool boat, no doubt about that. But, I don't see where it says that it's an inflatable? Looks like a wood (Mahogany/marine plywood) & epoxy hull, with balsa wood sponsons.


    And now for my friend, FamilyMan. Are you out there in the darkness?
    Once again, you have added nothing substantial to the conversation, yet feel compelled to insert your gibberish nonetheless. I note that you joined the forum in May of 2008. Which means that in less than 4 years, you have posted over 4,000 times. That's almost 3 times per day, every day, for years. WOW! Anyone who can't stop blurting out in public, at a long-term average of every 8 hours, has serious issues. Please, step away from the glow of your monitor occassionally and get a life!

    Later, Dave.
    "Luckily, enforcement reads these forums, and likely will peruse this one...Especially after a link of it is forwarded to them....." - AlaskaHippie.

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    Thumbs down Quit cryin' already...

    Quote Originally Posted by BluNosDav View Post
    But little did I know, that lurking during those wee hours of the night, was a troll who had already "copied" a select few of my words, in order to post his typical nonsense. Due to his malicious posting
    Lurking?
    those wee hours of the night? (you were awake too then blunos; what're you trying to say here?)
    Troll?
    Typical Nonsense?
    Malicious Posting?

    Instead of a very incite-full and spiteful posting like you just made, obviously about me, you might consider trying the more normal-person's way: Ask a moderator politely to remove the words online that you (after the fact) wish you hadn't said. The mods here will work with you just fine, if you ask.

    But posting a nasty comment like this (that I quote above)? That's just nasty. What does that buy you? That you're picked on? Boo hoo. That I took umbrage to you publicly scolding Kurt? You bet I did; what you did wasn't right, and I said as much, except I did without all the name calling and boo hoo crap.

  16. #16

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    No offense taken, working night shift saw a Hawaian canoe and posted it. Pretty rare up here and thought I would share it.

  17. #17

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    I wonder how the 16' Kaboat compares to the Jet Ranger? If the bottom is stiff enough to prevent cavataition and porpising.
    And how the Kaboat would work with say a LW 20 HP jet? I Want to know bad enough to be a guinea pig. I need a niche boat.

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    Thumbs up Pictures and story, please, when the time comes?

    Quote Originally Posted by kk alaska View Post
    I wonder how the 16' Kaboat compares to the Jet Ranger? If the bottom is stiff enough to prevent cavataition and porpising.
    And how the Kaboat would work with say a LW 20 HP jet? I Want to know bad enough to be a guinea pig. I need a niche boat.
    That is some serious wanting to know. I'd like to know too, but not as much as you. I sure want to know though, enough to beg you for some pictures and a story about how it works, if you do pull the trigger on that. I'd even say "please".

  19. #19

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    Well I need to start a need to know fund donations gladly accepted! Kurt

  20. #20

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    Got a 16 foot Kaboat on hold want delivery before May 1 . They were starting to go fast so wanted to lock one up. I am hoping it lives up to my expectations.

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