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Thread: Devastating Shot Placement

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    Member 4merguide's Avatar
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    Default Devastating Shot Placement

    Some of you may remember some of my recent posts concerning the goat tag I drew. I have been asking anything from judging goats in the field, to a 270 load, to lets see your goat mounts..!!!....lol. I may have mentioned that my greatest fear is a goat falling and either not be able to recover it, or it just totally messing up the animal. I've been on more than a few sheep and goat hunts where the animal has taken really bad falls, and it's always such a shame to me. I absolutely hate it! And yes, I understand that it's best to just wait him out till he moves to a safer location, and this will be my main goal for sure.

    But I also got to thinking about how years ago I remember reading an article about a devastating shot placement to anchor an animal in it's tracks. If I recall it was a bit high on the shoulder where there was potential to break the spine, as well as take out the top part of the lung/s. I remember he gave a detailed description of exactly where to shoot, but it was so long ago I really can't remember. I think I remember him doing something like drawing a horizontal line across the middle of the animal and saying just how far above this line you would aim. From the way he made it sound, it was the only shot he took, and with consistently great results. Believe it or not, I saw a video once of a deer being hit by and arrow in this area and it slammed him to the ground....I was totally amazed!

    Call me old school, but always wanting to save meat, I've always been a heart/lung guy myself, unless a good behind the ear shot presents itself with a good rest at a relatively short distance...(did that on a sleeping caribou once). But I know now on a big billy I'm looking at hitting good bone with a 140 grain Barnes Triple-Shock from the 270. I realize that probably the best shot on a goat would be from up above shooting between the shoulder blades. But that's probably just wishful thinking.

    Just would like to hear your thoughts on this type of shot placement.

    Thanks....

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    Member ninefoot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4merguide View Post
    Some of you may remember some of my recent posts concerning the goat tag I drew. I have been asking anything from judging goats in the field, to a 270 load, to lets see your goat mounts..!!!....lol. I may have mentioned that my greatest fear is a goat falling and either not be able to recover it, or it just totally messing up the animal. I've been on more than a few sheep and goat hunts where the animal has taken really bad falls, and it's always such a shame to me. I absolutely hate it! And yes, I understand that it's best to just wait him out till he moves to a safer location, and this will be my main goal for sure.

    But I also got to thinking about how years ago I remember reading an article about a devastating shot placement to anchor an animal in it's tracks. If I recall it was a bit high on the shoulder where there was potential to break the spine, as well as take out the top part of the lung/s. I remember he gave a detailed description of exactly where to shoot, but it was so long ago I really can't remember. I think I remember him doing something like drawing a horizontal line across the middle of the animal and saying just how far above this line you would aim. From the way he made it sound, it was the only shot he took, and with consistently great results. Believe it or not, I saw a video once of a deer being hit by and arrow in this area and it slammed him to the ground....I was totally amazed!

    Call me old school, but always wanting to save meat, I've always been a heart/lung guy myself, unless a good behind the ear shot presents itself with a good rest at a relatively short distance...(did that on a sleeping caribou once). But I know now on a big billy I'm looking at hitting good bone with a 140 grain Barnes Triple-Shock from the 270. I realize that probably the best shot on a goat would be from up above shooting between the shoulder blades. But that's probably just wishful thinking.

    Just would like to hear your thoughts on this type of shot placement.

    Thanks....
    I d be quicker ti shoot a goat through the big bones in both shoulders before i tried your shot...that way there are three directions that you could screw up a bit and still hit vitals...a bit more room for error...but the best advise is to shoot any animal with the highest chance of retrieval available...ive only killed a.couple mountain goats but ithat was enouh to figure out how tough they are...the one i shot through the lungs with my guide rifle (375 hh) was just as unimpressed with my performance as the one i shot through the chest with my 270...both were shot three times repetively just as if i were shooting a bear...neither dropped where i started hitting them. Theyre tough...no doubts there. Where do you instruct hunters to shoot em jake(brwnbr) Youve got quite a bit of billy time...

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    Quote Originally Posted by ninefoot View Post
    I d be quicker ti shoot a goat through the big bones in both shoulders before i tried your shot...
    "My" shot? What shot are you referring to? I too would be more likely to take shots on a goat as if I was shooting a bear.....aim at the opposite shoulder for first shot, then the other for the second, and so on. This article is only something I remembered reading that's why i ask.

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    Member pacific-23's Avatar
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    I don't remember what it was called or when it was from exactly but do a search on here for goats and you will find a thread discussing this very subject.

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    To anchor any critter you need to hit bones and shock the **** out of the system and thats bears goats any big critter. Of course there are exceptions like endo through vitals spine or what have you. Dont matter if you use a 600 nitro and just blow through the lungs you need to whack the bone to transfer the energy to the critter. I dont recall ever hearing about that magical shot. The problem with spine shots and ear shots and such is simple,the vast majority of the hunting public are terrible shots,I know I know the whole not me thing but yes it is true(nothing aimed at you 4mer just hunters as a hole and as a former guide I am sure you know what I mean), I am not saying it cant be done as lots of people are able to make those shots. I have seen the best onpaper make less then perfect shots on game...just too many variables in the real world hunting conditions.With that said when you try to hit a spot on an animal that is only a couple inches it doesnt take much too miss that spot and leave a non mortal wound.. I used to have my bear hunters shoot for the shoulders on the first shot to anchor but after realizing(and several close calls) that the slightest miss of the bone leave a wounded bear with a non vital wound I now have them shoot double lung first(no animal can live with double lung shot) and then bone on the second shot. Ok so enough of my rambling, for me on goat hunts or any mountain hunt I most always try to get hunters to break shoulders as it usually plants the critter, quartering towards me being my favorite shot as the best of both worlds. You really want to plant one try the texas heart shot...
    Dave

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    Member ninefoot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4merguide View Post
    "My" shot? What shot are you referring to? I too would be more likely to take shots on a goat as if I was shooting a bear.....aim at the opposite shoulder for first shot, then the other for the second, and so on. This article is only something I remembered reading that's why i ask.
    Just referring to the shot you mentioned in your post dave...capstick wrote much on the same sort of shot on cape buff...claiming that there spine dipped down right into the top of their shoulders and that a high shoulder shot would hit spine shoulders and top of lung...depending on which ph you speak with that hunts africa, capstick might have been full of alot of hot air...but then again ive not butchered or shot a cape buffalo so i havent a clue. I piped up because ive read of the shot you speak of as well...and dont much agree with it. You ask for a few opinions....theres mine.

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    Member ninefoot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bear View Post
    To anchor any critter you need to hit bones and shock the **** out of the system and thats bears goats any big critter. Of course there are exceptions like endo through vitals spine or what have you. Dont matter if you use a 600 nitro and just blow through the lungs you need to whack the bone to transfer the energy to the critter. I dont recall ever hearing about that magical shot. The problem with spine shots and ear shots and such is simple,the vast majority of the hunting public are terrible shots,I know I know the whole not me thing but yes it is true(nothing aimed at you 4mer just hunters as a hole and as a former guide I am sure you know what I mean), I am not saying it cant be done as lots of people are able to make those shots. I have seen the best onpaper make less then perfect shots on game...just too many variables in the real world hunting conditions.With that said when you try to hit a spot on an animal that is only a couple inches it doesnt take much too miss that spot and leave a non mortal wound.. I used to have my bear hunters shoot for the shoulders on the first shot to anchor but after realizing(and several close calls) that the slightest miss of the bone leave a wounded bear with a non vital wound I now have them shoot double lung first(no animal can live with double lung shot) and then bone on the second shot. Ok so enough of my rambling, for me on goat hunts or any mountain hunt I most always try to get hunters to break shoulders as it usually plants the critter, quartering towards me being my favorite shot as the best of both worlds. You really want to plant one try the texas heart shot...


    Dave
    i used to reccomend stopping shots first as well...now bear clients are instructed to shoot lungs first with following shots to bone. One lives and hopefully learns...

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    Blow out their brains when ever possible , from Mice to Moose, dead right there.

    Take other shots if nessessary.

    Good luck!!
    If you can't Kill it with a 30-06, you should Hide.

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    Member ninefoot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by strangerinastrangeland View Post
    Blow out their brains when ever possible , from Mice to Moose, dead right there.

    Take other shots if nessessary.

    Good luck!!
    lol..come on chip work with us here...some of us are interested in whats around the brains also...

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    vertebrae are small..... except in bison, and even there, the shot conditions and shooter preparation need to be perfect.

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    I am working with ya, 9foot, with my own experiance, nothing more........... I find the high shoulder shot secondary to a brain/neck shot myself............ if the sudden removal of the central nevous sytems thinking end doesnt drop them there and keep them from dropping a further 1,000 feet to a skree sllide below, I dont know what will. Most head shots are pass throughs, so the horns launching off shouldnt be a problem, if they matter to a body.......The area described in the OP is about Brain sized, so I see no problem in target size, either. I do not like to chase wounded animals, nor have them drop off cliffs nor pack them further than I have to as well as the next guy.
    If you can't Kill it with a 30-06, you should Hide.

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    Member ninefoot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by strangerinastrangeland View Post
    I am working with ya, 9foot, with my own experiance, nothing more........... I find the high shoulder shot secondary to a brain/neck shot myself............ if the sudden removal of the central nevous sytems thinking end doesnt drop them there and keep them from dropping a further 1,000 feet to a skree sllide below, I dont know what will. Most head shots are pass throughs, so the horns launching off shouldnt be a problem, if they matter to a body.......The area described in the OP is about Brain sized, so I see no problem in target size, either. I do not like to chase wounded animals, nor have them drop off cliffs nor pack them further than I have to as well as the next guy.
    Well...cant argue the effectiveness of a brain shot...no doubts about that one.

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    Member 4merguide's Avatar
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    Friend of mine shot a goat right IN the ear with a 270 by accident once....it never exited. Goat never knew what hit him that's for sure. Good thing the snow stopped him tho or he also would have been down at the bottom......

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    The "Best of the West" TV show did a little segment on this "high shoulder shot" on one of their shows about a year ago. The segment used some anatomical diagrams to back up their point. If I remember correctly, their stance was that this shot not only dropped animals quickly, but also afforded a larger margin for error with the larger front to back part of the lungs being up high. Hit a little high, and you get spine, hit a little low, and you get the traditional heart/lung shot. That was what I took from their message. I didn't put a lot of time, thought or analysis into verifying their claims. I do remember finding it interesting at least at face value. This shot has crossed my mind too of late as I also drew a goat tag this year. I might have to give it some closer thought.

    Please don't inundate me with rants against the show. It is an interesting show and they make some great shots, but I always wonder what they edit out to make it look so good. Not a fan of their bullets either.

    Scott

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    Member BRWNBR's Avatar
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    high shoulder is a great shot, use it alot myself. and love it.
    with clients i tell them middle shoulder, biggest margin of error.
    myself a head on spine shot is awesome, side spine will work. dont' like head shots cause i sell the hides.
    but high shoulder i'd take before i took a low shoulder shot. seen goats go a LONNNGG ways with no heart or lungs....but not very far with no spine.
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    Saw my cousin's wife do a spinal neck shot on an interior griz ~ shot with crappy core lokt out of an underpowered 30-06 ~ died right there with a mouth full of moose guts. Spinal Tap is always good.
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    I spine shot my goat in the neck and it went about 150yds straight down. My wife spine shot a moose also in the neck with a 308 shooting core lokts and it pancaked in it's tracks. I do preach the broadside heart/lung shot but there is absolutely no denying the immediate effectiveness of a CNS shot.

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    My first rifle was a win mod70 in .222 rem with 55gr FMJ neck shot always dropped em.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kodiakcombo View Post
    My first rifle was a win mod70 in .222 rem with 55gr FMJ neck shot always dropped em.
    My Dad was famous for his neck, or behind the ear shots on deer with his 257 Roberts Wildcat. It was a 118 grain tack driver...

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    lol ya i've seen animals argue a shoulder/chest shot, but never seen one argue a CNS shot!!
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