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Thread: Anterless Hunt

  1. #1
    Member alaska bush man's Avatar
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    Thumbs down Anterless Hunt

    I do not not believe in the Anterless hunts.........and I do not believe in Game/Fish on how they count the numbers and manage the moose herds.

    They need to visit Canada and Sweden and adopt their management programs.
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    Quote Originally Posted by alaska bush man View Post
    I do not not believe in the Anterless hunts.........and I do not believe in Game/Fish on how they count the numbers and manage the moose herds.

    They need to visit Canada and Sweden and adopt their management programs.
    Could you (or someone) post up a link to the policies used by Canada and Sweden?

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    For starters.....................might need a little help underlining the link



    http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.c...and-management
    Last edited by Brian M; 03-27-2012 at 15:10. Reason: fixing link

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    A simple Google search of "Swedish moose management" reveals a bunch of good places to start educating yourself. I've read two studies now and have come to the conclusion that their methods wouldn't work in Alaska.

    They have much better feed and habitat for moose than we do in most areas. They have large scale logging that regenerates habitat, that we don't have. They allow management of moose by hunting clubs, which is a road I do not want to ever head down. They also take calves and cows to manage their moose.
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    If you are against antler less hunts and think we should manage our moose they way they do in Sweden, you better educate yourself on how they manage moose there in Scandinavia. Like AK Doug said, they take cows and calfs annually. I would venture to say we ARE headed in the Swedish way of moose management with the cow/calf hunts in the interior. I think it is a difficult job "managing" wild game here in Alaska and managers implement what they feel is best for the animal populations and human demand to hunt.

    Quote Originally Posted by alaska bush man View Post
    I do not not believe in the Anterless hunts.........and I do not believe in Game/Fish on how they count the numbers and manage the moose herds.

    They need to visit Canada and Sweden and adopt their management programs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by alaska bush man View Post
    I do not not believe in the Anterless hunts.........and I do not believe in Game/Fish on how they count the numbers and manage the moose herds.

    They need to visit Canada and Sweden and adopt their management programs.
    Why do you say this... that is, what about it violates your ethics, values, priorities, etc.

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    You do not believe in anterless hunts but wnat us to adopt Sweden's moose management? As previously stated, Sweden and in fact all western European countries regularly take females and calves (or fawns) as part of the management plan. I spent time over there and know the Germany plan quite well. We do not want to go there. What makes you not believe in Fish and Game and how they count game populations? Although there have been some questionable people at the top, there are a lot of people over there working hard to get things right. There are limitatiions due to budget and things could be better. And parts of Canada will give groups one actual permit so 4 of you can go out and get one moose between the group. I don't want to go there either.

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    In Sweden its also lawful to use dogs for moose hunting,,,

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    I'm not quite sure I follow the OP? he doesn't believe in killing antlerless but wants to adopt a plan that encourages taking cows and calves and the use of dogs?


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    Quote Originally Posted by AKHunterNP View Post
    I'm not quite sure I follow the OP? he doesn't believe in killing antlerless but wants to adopt a plan that encourages taking cows and calves and the use of dogs?


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    I agree that the thread title and proposed techniques seem to be quite contradictory.

    Not speaking for the OP - but I was reading a book the other night that discussed that the annual moose harvest in Sweden was significantly greater than the annual Alaska moose harvest.... so I think that's the direction that he was trying to go with the the thread. (eg proposing Alaska use techniques that they are using to build up Alaska moose numbers so there would be more annual harvest).

    As for counting moose, I agree that their count is likely off, but I treat the numbers more like an estimate (than an exact count) and a baseline for comparing populations subsequent years.

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    Wet eNuf, they shoot cows in sweden, that brings their harvest numbers up.

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    I understand that. They must have a pretty good population to allow such a huge annual harvest.

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    Bring into play the predetors they have in Sweden, enough said on my part.

    (They don't have any to speak of )

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    They have the ultimate biological predator there--humans............

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    Roughly 2500 brown bears and 130 wolves in Sweden if the net is to believed.
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    Normally don't poke my head into these conversation bascially because well to be honest I am somewhat slow. However that being said concerning management and our Moose population concerning game management areas versus the harvest allowed Male / Female etc... our state does a reasonable job for the most part. Although we as user gourp may not agree with some of the methods and how the over all population is managed based on our Type of Moose yes they are different then those in parts of Canada and Sweeden "yes still a Moose" different sub species is still reasonable. Yes we do have increase predation in some areas as well as a huge increase in the overall human population in certain areas as well as increased accesses into certain areas, and additional hunting guide operations in to certain areas the fact still remains that our Management methods are somewhat sound overall.

    I am not defending methods or the State just pointing out that although sometimes it seems like someone is a little crazy no one gets it correct 100% of the time every time in every place.

    I have been fortunate enough to be able and sit in a listen to several bio-guys discuss the science, crunch the numbers and have heated discussion concerning same subject amongst them-selves "the Fly On The Wall" and it was great. Most of them are avid hunters and also wish to see and do what is best for the overall harvest potential of the Species. There is a ton of data available if you choose to do the research showing why what is done is done public information and only a click or phone call away.

    We as a group can contiue to argue and or make bold / brash statements or we can be part o a greater solution and be involved with the process we do have that ability in regards to game management.

    Sorry for the rant, spelling and grammer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by alaska bush man View Post
    I do not not believe in the Anterless hunts.........and I do not believe in Game/Fish on how they count the numbers and manage the moose herds.

    They need to visit Canada and Sweden and adopt their management programs.
    Do you believe in the Eater Bunny? Or Sasquatch? Or eating broccoli? Because we need to know your complete belief system to figure out why you believe or don't believe what you state you don't believe here.

    As pointed out by others, your beliefs seem to contradict one another. In Sweden, not only do they kill cows but the taking of calves is encouraged. About half the annual take is calves.

    But I'm more concerned with why you have no faith in Fish and Game. It's easy to take the possition that they don't know what they are doing. Then you are free to criticize them for any problem real or imagined you can come up with, whether it's something they have control over or not.

    So what exactly don't you like about their management of game in Alaska, and what could they do to to gain your trust?
    An opinion should be the result of thought, not a substitute for it.
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    I do believe in Fish & Game! I do. I do! I do believe in Fish & Game. I do. I do!

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    In Scandanavia they are managing the Moose herds to prevent damage to their more important crop, "LUMBER". they are not managing for maximum yield for Moose, but maximum yield for their tree crop. Moose damage the trees, so they want to keep the Moose numbers low.

    Now we are managing for the maximum yield of Moose to fill freezers. The range will only carry so many Moose. When that number is exceeded, drastic measures are needed to reduce that number to the number the range can carry. Killing cows and calves is a tool used to reduce the numbers to needed amount. The taking of bulls only will not get the numbers down, in fact it has the opposite affect, by making room for more baby making cows.

    I've seen the numbers and the science. I feel Fish and Game are doing an excellent job of managing our Moose Herd in the Interior. Other areas not so good.
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    Quote Originally Posted by twodux View Post
    But I'm more concerned with why you have no faith in Fish and Game....
    So what exactly don't you like about their management of game in Alaska, and what could they do to to gain your trust?
    Ask this to the subsistence king salmon fishermen of the Yukon river drainage.

    fish-moose... all estimated by biologists.
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