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Thread: Still trying to get old 1892 Win to shoot worth a darn

  1. #1
    Member Float Pilot's Avatar
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    Default Still trying to get old 1892 Win to shoot worth a darn

    Howdy again from snowy Kachemak Bay .



    I managed to try a few 38 WCF loads yesterday. I forgot to take my snow-shoes with me so I only made it about 52 yards before my pounding chest said it was a good place for the target board.



    From my old 1892 WIn, 24 inch lightly pitted bore. Tang peep

    Star-line brass, old CCI-300 primers

    1.587 col, roll crimp, Magma .403 sized
    Temp 11 F, light wind




    10 shots each with cleaning every 5 shot.

    8.0 gr IMR-800x,,,, = 1,228 fps and a 2.6 inch group
    6.8gr HP-38,,,,,,,,,, = 1,134 fps and a 3.2 inch group
    6.9gr HP-38,,,,,,,,,, = 1,158 fps and a 3.0 inch group
    8.0gr Herco (old),,, = 1,165 fps and a 3.5 inch vert string group
    8.0gr Universal,,,,, = 1,170 fps and a 3.2 inch vert string group
    8.0gr Unique (old) = 1,182 fps and a 2.9 inch group
    33.0gr Goex 3F,,,, = 1,075 fps and 20.0 inch group * CCI Mag primer, lubed with wonder lube

    29.0gr Goex Clear Shot= 960 fps and a huge group. *CCI mag primer, very dirty.




    So at least I am on paper, (compared to my last post with undersized bullets) but this old gal has not shot very well ever since I cleaned all the old lead from the barrel pits. Plus I ran out of the old semi-hollow based bullets that I bought from Fuller in Cooper Landing 30 years ago. Back when I could see better as well.



    I also noted that my velocities went up and are much more consistent with the .403 diameter slugs. Except for the black powder and Goex Clear Shot loads. Those are slower and the velocities are all over the place.
    Very Weird.....
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  2. #2
    Member mainer_in_ak's Avatar
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    oftentimes, those old rifles have varying bore sizes. Have you determined it's true bore size? Also, have you considered polishing the old bore? You might take off some very rough pitting, and a recrown of the barrel might help too. Some of those old rifles used primers that were corrosive. so a polish of the bore and a recrown would be a worthy endeavor IMO.

  3. #3
    Member Float Pilot's Avatar
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    This is a follow up to an early post. So yes I know the bore, it is 0.4015 inch. That is why my previous attempts with 0.400 bullets were not so great. This rifle actually shot pretty well, until I stripped the lead out of the pits (it looked pretty nice before that) I let it soak in Marvel Mystery Oil for a couple days and the old lead came right out. That was followed by JB bore compound and some lapping compounds. Apparently the 120 years (well really 119 since it was sold from the Winchester warehouse in Feb 1893) of lead and copper deposits were helping it shot halfway nice groups. I am not seeing the regular forum page,,, I only see the text version. this started yesterday..
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    Member Float Pilot's Avatar
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    WELL THIS IS NOT WHAT I EXPECTED.

    Today I shot some jacketed bullets through the bore to see how it would effect the pitted barrel.
    The temp was around 15 to 18f I believe, Fired from some sandbags on top of my tool box. The chronograph was about 10 feet in front of the bore.
    I roll crimped as much I I could for bullets with no cannelure.

    Jacketed Bullets at 50 yards


    6.8gr HP-38, 180gr Speer FMJ, Star-line, CCI-300, 1.588col= 823 fps and 6.0 in grp, dirty

    7.0gr HP-38, 155gr XTP-HP, Star-line,CCI-300, 1,588 col = 985 fps and a 0.75 in grp, dirty

    11.2gr AA-7, 155gr XTP-HP, Star-line, cci-300, 1.588 col = 1,000fps and a 2.75 in grp, very dirty
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  5. #5
    Member Float Pilot's Avatar
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    The proof is in the pudding.
    This is really weird since the bullets are 0.400 and therefore undersized.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 38-WCF at 50 yards 001.jpg  
    Floatplane,Tailwheel and Firearms Instructor- Dragonfly Aero
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    See if the results are repeatable. That is the proof.

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    Sponsor ADfields's Avatar
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    When you slugged it how deep did you go? Could it be a .400Ē with cleaning rod damage opening it up at the muzzle? Thatís the only way I can see it shooting 1.5moa with any .400Ē bullet at those light velocities.
    Andy
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    Member Float Pilot's Avatar
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    I drove the lead all the way through the barrel from the breech to he muzzle. The grooves are .4015 deep and the top of the lands were .3950.
    With light pitting all the way through the bore.
    Floatplane,Tailwheel and Firearms Instructor- Dragonfly Aero
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  9. #9
    Sponsor ADfields's Avatar
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    Well I think the only thing left is the crown and maybe a more aggressive lapping job. Baring that you could ether put the lead back in there or have it punched to 44-40, youĎve exhausted every other option I know of. If it was me . . . 44-40 is a well supported round these days and JES does good work for not that much.
    Andy
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  10. #10
    Member Float Pilot's Avatar
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    At one time you could have these old gals re-lined. But i have not heard of anyone doing that for awhile.

    Who is JES?
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  11. #11
    Sponsor ADfields's Avatar
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    I donít know if anyone does relining anymore, havenít seen that in years ether other than for slip in 22 conversion.

    Here is a link to JES. He specializes in making grandpaís ole gun shoot, bunch of guys on here sing his parses. I think itís $225 or so plus shipping to recut it, wouldn't take all that long to spend that playing around trying to get it to shoot and it may never. Cut it and it will at very least be survivable and from what everyone says his come back very accurate. Maner just had two guns done in 3 groove rifling, came back last week I think. I've been looking for a 30-30 to make a 35-30-30 from myself.

    http://www.35caliber.com/
    Andy
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