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Thread: The calf is open to hunters now.

  1. #1
    Member Rock_skipper's Avatar
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    Default The calf is open to hunters now.

    Sorry all but I was pi--ed off last night when the board passed this, and I might have let my feelings bleed over to other threads because of this.

    Just waant to know where this madness will stop.

    It started with the wolf, then it went to the bears, now the calfs?

    Dang trying to figure this out since it all came about in such a short pedriod of time.

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    What maddness you refering too?

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    Member cdubbin's Avatar
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    It does seem a little unconventional; I'm not very familiar with the unit so I don't have much of a reference on it. If the moose are that far over the mark up there, wouldn't it make more sense to target the cows without calves?
    "– Gas boats are bad enough, autos are an invention of the devil, and airplanes are worse." ~Allen Hasselborg

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    Member Rock_skipper's Avatar
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    Sir if you have to ask that question, I really dont have an answer for you.

    Cdu, I don't think they know what they are doing, now you can shoot a calf if it is standing next to a cow, if there are two of you you can shoot both.

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    Moderator LuJon's Avatar
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    Biologically calves have less to offer than cows and can support a higher harvest. It is silliness to not allow the taking of them. They don't breed till they are several years old yet consume browse that would better be allocated for pregnant cows. Many people don't need a whole moose to sustain them through the winter yet a calf is the perfect size. There is simply no biological reason to protect them and plenty of biological data supporting their harvest. No sense in arguing with a few hundred thousand predators, calf it's what's for dinner!

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    Member Rock_skipper's Avatar
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    Lujon have you ever taken a calf? I picked one up from a road kill and got about 20 packages of meat off from it, yea it was good fare for the table, but was'nt worth the time to go pick it up.

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    Member Erik in AK's Avatar
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    Rock I respect your sincerity but I think your sentimental desire to protect babies is interfering with your ability to reason. Not slamming you, just pointing it out. The science has been done and redone. 70% of all moose calves die by some means before the see their first birthday. About half get eaten at some point and the other half die over winter from starvation, exhaustion, injury etc. This means that around 50% of the total calf crop can be taken by hunters with no net impact on herd viability. That's a lot of moose veal that could be feeding people instead of magpies.

    Speaking only for myself, if the bios have recommended that calves be taken then I'm willing to trust their professional judgment that the moose population is on the brink of over stressing its range.
    If cave men had been trophy hunters the Wooly Mammoth would be alive today

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    No biological reason not to take calves? What the hell you going to be hunting in a couple years? Guess what, those calves. I've been hunting 20A since 1981.... I fly over it almost daily. There is not a moose overpopulation problem in 20A. The way things are going there is going to be a shortage of moose in 20A. Time to take your college thesis back to whatever state you came from and quit experimenting with our food supply...After you kill off the breeding stock and the young moose, what will be the next theory? Too many predators again....start more forest fires....sterilize the wolf population....where do they find these idiots?

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    somebody please fill me in
    Eccleasties 8:11 Because the sentence against an evil deed is not executed quickly, There for the hearts of the sons of men among them are given fully to do evil.

  10. #10
    Member Rock_skipper's Avatar
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    You guys crack me up, do the calfs that will make it have a mark on them so as that they are not a target? Do the migrtory cows have a mark on them so as they are spared? If you kill off the calfs that would have made it, and the ones that were destined to die do die off anyway then what kinda senerio do you have?

    Man I just can't see all of those that wanted to come to alaska to be part of the last frontier and see them try to change it to what fits them after they get here.

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    Member AKHunterNP's Avatar
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    This is nothing new. Taking calves or cows with calves has been allowed in 20B for quite some time. Like I said in the other post regarding this topic, DM786, DM788, DM789, RM775, RM785 and the new DM783 all allow and have allowed taking of calves. Are people just pi$$ed off that it is now spreading to 20A? I haven't seen the moose disappear in 20B.
    "...arms like laws discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe...Horrid mischief would ensue were the good deprived of the use of them." -Thomas Paine

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    Brilliant point, since we are doing this all over the interior, it must be OK....the moose numbers are way down in 20A....Do you trust the people counting them for you? I don't, when they are pushing their agenda come hell or high water....When do you think they will admit that they have screwed up big time? Probably never.....Remember when they over hunted the moose on the north side of the Brooks Range? When the numbers collapsed, they came out with the" mysterious moose disease" killing moose on the North Slope....Don't believe the crap that Fish & Game is spoon feeding you....

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    Member AKHunterNP's Avatar
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    All I'm saying is that this has been going on for awhile and there are still moose in 20B, everywhere. Hell, one ran in front of me on Airport across from Denny's this last December while I was home. This isn't going to make all the moose go bye, bye. I'll probably have my 10 yr daughter shoot a calf this year, it will be easier for her to handle field dressing a calf rather than a cow. She shoots it, she cleans it.
    "...arms like laws discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe...Horrid mischief would ensue were the good deprived of the use of them." -Thomas Paine

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    Under plan A (no shooting of calves, and no shooting cows accompanied by calves) - they issue X number of antlerless tags and a certain percentage of the tags are filled.

    Under plan B (shooting of calves, but no shooting cows accompanied by calves) - they issue Y number of antlerless tags and a certain percentage of those tags are filled.

    I would expect the hunter's success rate would be higher in Plan B.

    In unit 20A, they also have a late season registration hunt. This past season, the hunt started (seemed like a month after the date published in the regs), as the F&G was probably determining the success of the antlerless Draw tag hunts.

    With the opposition to the late season hunts, the desire the percentage of antlerless tag winners increase. Including calves would help them achieve their goals.

    If the hunter success rates are consistant on a year to year basis, seems that they could issue more antlerless cow tags under Plan A and achieve a similar result.... but then again, what if they have too much success?

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    The courts have already weighed in on this and I suspect that impacted the BOG decision. A judge already threw out a case claiming it was impossible for a hunter to differentiate 100% between cows and calves.

  16. #16
    Supporting Member iofthetaiga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LuJon View Post
    Biologically calves have less to offer than cows and can support a higher harvest. It is silliness to not allow the taking of them. They don't breed till they are several years old yet consume browse that would better be allocated for pregnant cows. Many people don't need a whole moose to sustain them through the winter yet a calf is the perfect size. There is simply no biological reason to protect them and plenty of biological data supporting their harvest. No sense in arguing with a few hundred thousand predators, calf it's what's for dinner!
    Yup. We took a calf out of 20A several years back. Twice the meat of a caribou and plenty for our needs. I find antlers a little hard on my teeth, and prefer to eat the more tender parts anyway, so when the population management calls for it, I have no qualms about catching an antlerless moose. Resource management should be based on sound science, not emotion. (Hmmm, where have I heard that before?).
    ...he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods & errors. ~Thomas Jefferson
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    Member OKElkHunter's Avatar
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    This is purely a management tool to help manage the population at a sustainable level and minimize the effects of over brousing and moose vehicle collisions in that area. Scientifically, an area can only substain so many moose and taking cows and calves helps substain a healthy population.
    “Don't expect to build up the weak by pulling down the strong." ~Calvin Coolidge~

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    Member Bsj425's Avatar
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    I won a cow tag for an area where this is now allowed. If I have to go solo ( again) you better believe I will shoot a calf. not a yearling but a 2 year old for sure im not packing out a full size moose solo again unless there is one right on the trail where I can pull the wheeler up to it call me lazy but ive got to salvage my back!

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