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Thread: hunting predators

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    Default hunting predators

    Just curious on something, seems that preditor controll has been a big issue on here as of late. Just wondering how many of you have actually made the effort to go to these troubled areas to target bears, wolves and what have you. I am not talking about while you are moose or caribou hunting I mean just to go and hunt preditors.. Seems to me that its easy to sit behind a keyboard and have an opinion but instead of talking how about some hunting and then maybe some of these controversial issues wont be necessary...

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    My experiences reflect something between "all talk" and being "a poor hunter". I bait bears on the edge of the predator control area.

    With $1.2M going to the moose federation to temporarily relocate 10 moose? That's a poor use of public funds. Consider alternative uses for that money to supplement Bean's Cafe with prime rib? Or relocate abused spouses and children. But then those issues don't have cute little moose calves on their website.

    With ariel bear kill using helicopters and state agents; again, that's a poor use of public funds. And another example of poor management, when considering the state intends to eradicate all (100 percent) of the black bears and brown bears within a specific 540 mile area.

    I guess I'm not sure what point you're trying to make?

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    My point is that arguably hunting is the best management tool we have and if we as hunters are not doing enough it is not surprising the some of these measures are taking place.I am on board with you that some of them are absolutely rediculous but we as as hunters are at the very least partially responsible for it because we are not doing enough.There has been 5000 views on one thread concerning this issus lets just say 5% of those harvest a bear,thats 250 bears which is almost double of what they want to take in that 540 mile area.. I will say I have honestly I have not done enough,I have taken preditors in areas that I dont normally hunt moose and caribou in but I know for sure I can do more...
    I think ADFG need to make some rule changes but I also think we as hunters need to step up our game...

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    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    The SE is a good example as we have as many bear and wolf as anywhere else or could have. We have every four years here on browns and he is not a predator but a top of the line game animal to be proud of same as wolves.If SE folks just hunted deer and moose we could also be over run by the meat eaters.Most towns here are small and we live where we play the reason most come to Alaska but end up in the big cities 9-5 job and hope the hard work is done by others. I just don't ever see folks from villages or the SE except for Juneau ask where is a good place to hunt.Free tags a bear a year how lucky some are with this gift they refuse to use
    Now left only to be a turd in the forrest and the circle will be complete.Use me as I have used you

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    i specifically hunt bears in areas that i think have a problem.

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    Fair enough question, Bear. Let's start with you. How much time do you spend hunting preds and how many per year do you take?

    I think more of us would participate more often if there was some financial incentive to taking a bear. When all you can do, at least with the griz, is throw it over the couch...............how many bears does a guy need?
    Since hunting any species costs time and money..........how much time and money should one put in to hunt preds to get a legitimate right to support pred control?
    Thanks for any answers.
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    Quote Originally Posted by martentrapper View Post
    Fair enough question, Bear. Let's start with you. How much time do you spend hunting preds and how many per year do you take?

    I think more of us would participate more often if there was some financial incentive to taking a bear. When all you can do, at least with the griz, is throw it over the couch...............how many bears does a guy need?
    Since hunting any species costs time and money..........how much time and money should one put in to hunt preds to get a legitimate right to support pred control?
    Thanks for any answers.
    MT I have already stated I have not personally done enough. In the last two years I have not taken any preditors.Before that I have or hunters I have hunted with have taken bears and wolves every year or so for many years..I will also be hitting it hard this spring..I'm not saying you have to put in any time or money,thats your choice, I'm just saying hunters can do more and if not dont be surprised to see these kind of measures take place.

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    While I have yet to actually hunt ANY predators (or any big game for that matter) I've tasted black bear meat and thought it was a pretty good eat. Wouldn't that be enough of an incentive to hunt them? How much meat could you harvest off a blackie? I realize it may not be the 1200 pounds a moose provides, but I'd think that even 300-400 pounds would justify 4-7 days in the sticks.

    I've never eaten brown bear meat and from what I've heard brownies are usually considered trophy game, but I personally don't like the idea of killing animals without harvesting their meat. Though it's a different debate entirely, I'm still unresolved on how I feel about trapping. I realize that wolves and bears pose threats to traditional harvest animals, but I'm also dubious of a few dozen humans correctly identifying what levels of moose and caribou population their environments can support, factor human predation correctly, and then crunch the numbers on how many wild predators need to be killed. As Wet eNuf pointed out, humans tend to politicize pretty much everything, which leads to some very bad policies.

    So, I guess to answer the original post, I'm not doing enough now, I plan on doing a whole lot more in the future, and even though I understand that predator control is an important aspect of game management, I'm not entirely convinced that it is always used effectively.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 27 sportfisher View Post
    i specifically hunt bears in areas that i think have a problem.
    I was wandering up a creek one day, carrying my favorite bear rifle and in prime bear season, when I stumbled upon a large grizzly bear who had perched himself upon some dead animal that I assumed to be a moose. At that moment I was presented with an opportunity to rid Game Management Subunit 20B of a true problem bear - a certified moose-killer. However, even as my blood boiled with some long-suppressed primal urge of my hunter-gatherer ancestors, I remember questioning what exactly I was going to do with a huge dead bear if it were to die right there, or more importantly, what exactly I was going to do if it didn't die right there. Obviously I turned around and wandered back down the creek with a quicker step than with which I came.

    But about predator control, I think it's silly. ADFG isn't required by the constitution to provide one spike-fork for every family in the state every year. If the bears eat too many moose, they'll die off soon enough. But of course no one asked me and I was regrettably unable to attend the BOG meeting. Shucks.
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    look I'm not tryin to ruffle anyones feathers my point of this is we are not utilizing our number one management tool,regardless of what side of the fence you are on we are all hunters(well maybe). Unit 19A the area in the press had a total of 9 reported black bear hunters in 2010 and 221 moose hunters couldnt find how many grizz hunters...just some food for thought...

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    Quote Originally Posted by AlaskanAdventurer View Post
    While I have yet to actually hunt ANY predators (or any big game for that matter) I've tasted black bear meat and thought it was a pretty good eat. Wouldn't that be enough of an incentive to hunt them? How much meat could you harvest off a blackie? I realize it may not be the 1200 pounds a moose provides, but I'd think that even 300-400 pounds would justify 4-7 days in the sticks.

    I've never eaten brown bear meat and from what I've heard brownies are usually considered trophy game, but I personally don't like the idea of killing animals without harvesting their meat. Though it's a different debate entirely, I'm still unresolved on how I feel about trapping. I realize that wolves and bears pose threats to traditional harvest animals, but I'm also dubious of a few dozen humans correctly identifying what levels of moose and caribou population their environments can support, factor human predation correctly, and then crunch the numbers on how many wild predators need to be killed. As Wet eNuf pointed out, humans tend to politicize pretty much everything, which leads to some very bad policies.

    So, I guess to answer the original post, I'm not doing enough now, I plan on doing a whole lot more in the future, and even though I understand that predator control is an important aspect of game management, I'm not entirely convinced that it is always used effectively.

    on a large black bear- say...6.'6"......i say you get about 100lbs or so....a bit less in spring, possibly a bit more in late fall....



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    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    Bear meat is good just like other meat some is better and some not so great.Folks like to say its the sportsman that takes care of making sure there is game to hunt but this thread sure ain't proving it.I've never let a legal bear walk and hunt them even when I can't shoot it just for pratice.What more reward could a person ask than to know they have done their part in helping game for the future. I would trade all the moose to keep bears here. Its only been a hundred years that all the griz were wiped out of Califorina,Oregon and Washington and the same whiners now up here what it here.
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    I never pass up the oppurtunity to eradicate a predator. We specifically chase them after moose season and have been successful. I would love to do more, but I'm not retired.
    BK

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    i've been facinated by predators for as long as i can remember, and remain very much so today. when i was a kid i couldnt get enough of the written word on hunting the cats in africa, asia, and south america, bears in the north....i'm not sure exactly what it is...maybe cause theyre hunters also, and theres a respect there that i dont hold for ungulates and prey species....i honestly cant say. birds of prey have held my facination since a small boy as well. i can remember watching a chicken hawk (just a southern term for a redtail) raid the neibhors coop when i was a kid, and i remember him shooting it for doing so...i was appalled, as i didnt think that a reason to kill such an animal...that hawk to me seemed to be too noble to die a chicken theif at the hand of a farmers quail gun...a kids reasoning i suppose. possibly predators facinate me because of there intelligence...or at least a more developed ability to learn than most prey species.

    i look at wildlife as a resource...predators are no different. i'd personally hunt bears of both species every year if i had the time, but i get my fix guiding. i try and canine hunt as much as possible, but admittedly these days my winter outdoor time is spent trapping smaller and more lucrative predators, primarily members of the weasel family, marten and wolverine. while i absolutely beleive in predator control, contrary to what some may think, i actually have mixed feelings about when and where its put into effect, and i certainly beleive there are many times that certain animals are blamed for things theyre just not guilty of. its all about what people want. i hear all the time from random hunters that i'm saving lots of moose in my yearly guiding endeavors, but as long as i stick to my personal boar/sow ratio goals i'm actually helping the bear population...so i dont know. i absolutely think its necessary if we as hunters are concerned about keeping a certain number of prey species in the areas we hunt...but i have mixed feelings about what those numbers might be, and what the people who are coming up with the numbers have done to get them anyway. i remember when they stopped the ariel goat surveys around haines a few years back...and then they continued to make changes in the regs on goat harverst from their desks in juneau, with no count, with no inkling of what was happening on the goat hills...cause they werent funded and werent being conducted. thats just an example, but that stuff happens all the time.

    that was a good question bear...but to be completely honest, i'm not really sure how much i can say i contribute in that regards...sure i kill a few canines, and a number of bears on a yearly basis (or at least enable others to)...but, while i agree with you that predator hunting IS a practice that every hunter can participate in, and in certain instances it may be helful for management purposes...i really dont personaly look at hunting as a management tool. if wolves need to go then theres airplanes for that...i beleive in arial wolf control and even had my gunners permit a couple years ago. but i could never bring myself to stand behind shooting bears from a plane/chopper just cause i cant. contradictory? yeah i suppose...but its honest. i dont see them as the threat that canines pose...and theyre in no way as efficient. i beleive in trapping and selling fur, i wouldnt have a bit of problems with brown bears hides being marketable even as long as theyre legally hunted. i beleive in resources and keeping them sustainable for use...no matter the reason, whether it be subsistence, sport, or traditional reasons...i'm a predator, and i'll hunt, as long as i'm not contributing to issues with a resource i will never apologize for killing or hunting. no matter the animal or reason as long as its legal and within my ethics...

    as far as canines go, wolf trappers that have observed pack dynamics for a period of years while trapping will tell you that hunting them on the ground is not effective enough to be a management tool at all, and that only very good wolf trappers taking high numbers are making much impact...and how many of those guys are out there? a few, but not many, specially with the high costs associated these days. so i just dont see hunting as much of a tool generally speaking...though certainly in some cases a high turnout of hunters could surely tip the odds when stuff like bears are concerned...especially baiting. but then again, i personally wont kill a bear of either species from a tree or over a bait. have no problem with others doing so, i just choose not too.

    but i'll continue to hunt predators. period. i love it. and as long as there remains a sustainable population i'll continue to have more fun in pursuit of predators of all kinds than most of our other animals. thats just me.

    my thoughts and opinions on this subject are admittedly a bit contradictory...but thats where i sit with it for better or worse.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hunt&FishAK View Post
    on a large black bear- say...6.'6"......i say you get about 100lbs or so....a bit less in spring, possibly a bit more in late fall....
    Bummer! Here I was thinking I could grab a couple hundred!

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    Ninefoot we tend to agree on a lot of things and I dont think we are too far off on this either. To be honest I have on none of these preditor issues ever give my personal feelings one way or the other,why,simply I also have mixed feelings over the whole thing when it comes down to means and methods wheres and whys.But at the same time I do not live in an area that I have to deal with it on a daily basis and if I do not harvest a moose I can simply head down to safeway so I believe in respecting the needs of those who do. I do believe strongly that we cannot enter an area and simply target and hunt one or two species and leave the others unchecked, to me it just seems natural that the balance of nature would be screwed... I am no biologist just a hunter who has spent probably more time in the field then the average hunter.(comes with our buisness)... and You are absolutely right about cannines for sure they are a mother to hunt on the ground ,been tryin that for years ;-).. I knew a few of them old trappers and your right some of them were real good....

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    I would love to go after some wolves and coyotes. I just don't know how to hunt them. I hear them all the time when I am out, but I never see them. I would also have no problem shooting a bear if the opportunity was there. I just never run into them unless I am fishing some where like Montana Creek, or the Russian River. They tend to frown on shooting bears in those places. If anybody needs a wolf or coyote hunting partner let me know, I would love to learn how it's done. I am also hoping I can finally connect with a spring bear this year. I guess I haven't done my part yet, but I am trying.
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    I try to shoot a bear every year, predator control or not. Thus far I've been pretty good at it, one per yer three years running, helped my dad get one two years ago as well. I don't do it because I think I'm saving moose, if I am that great too though. I do it because I like to hunt bears, I like to eat them, and I like to have hides hanging on the banisters, walls, couches, well you get the idea. I've always been a predator hunter, maybe it's from growing up in farm country but I can't help but slam on the brakes and reach for the rifle when I see a coyote from the road. If it's not a deer I don't seem to have a great deal of luck with ungulates, but for some reason I'm a bear magnet. So I stick to what I'm good at and hunt bears, all the while having a blast doing it. I plan to do a fly out moose hunt come fall, but you can bet your bottom dollar that if I see a bear on that trip I won't hesitate to add him to the game pole.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hunt&FishAK View Post
    on a large black bear- say...6.'6"......i say you get about 100lbs or so....a bit less in spring, possibly a bit more in late fall....
    Yeah....and I was gonna say...1200 pounds of moose meat...??? That's one darn big moose...!!!

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    Well I've been out a few times after any of them.........wolf, yote, lynx....but still haven't scored. It sounds like because the bunny population is so high around here,(can't go anywhere without seeing all kinds of tracks) the critters don't have to be very aggressive, or "need" to respond to a call that bad. They're all tucked in under a bush somewhere warm, fat, and happy, and all they have to do is wait for another bunny to walk by.....easy pickins.

    But I'll keep trying. And will sure try and get a blackie again this year. Young black bear is some of the best meat I've ever eaten. I'll also be helping a friend with a brown bear tag here pretty soon....

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