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Thread: Glock 20 help.

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    Default Glock 20 help.

    I am looking at getting a 10mm, because it is time for something new. I have heard a few myths about them, and just wanted to get clarification before I purchase.
    Can you shoot hard cast bullets out of a stock G20, or does that require an aftermarket barrel?
    Do you need to upgrade the recoil spring before shooting full house loads?
    Those are the two main questions I have.
    Thanks in advance,
    Matt
    PS: Where is the best(cheapest) place to buy a new one.

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    You will get a variety of opinions on cast bullets out of a Glock barrel. Glock's recommendation is that you do not use cast lead in their barrels. The factory recoil spring should be adequate for any factory load. The guys at Glock have spent a lot of time and money engineering their guns to work well. Most "aftermarket" parts do not increase the reliability over factory parts. Just a guy that works on guns for a living.
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    I have two G20's, one older modle and a new SF. While I do have after market barrels for both of them to shoot case bullets, it would not bother me to shoot case in the factory barrels. Just need to keep them clean and lead free. As for the springs, I am running stock and have yet had any issue.
    As to where to get a good price now I am not sure. The last one I bought was from Chimo's in Wasilla and I figured I got it at a good price.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gunbugs View Post
    You will get a variety of opinions on cast bullets out of a Glock barrel. Glock's recommendation is that you do not use cast lead in their barrels. The factory recoil spring should be adequate for any factory load. The guys at Glock have spent a lot of time and money engineering their guns to work well. Most "aftermarket" parts do not increase the reliability over factory parts. Just a guy that works on guns for a living.
    Agreed, cast is debatable but the kaboom trouble can be overcome by cleaning well very often, a thing many just won't do. Donít buy the myth that firing a jacket bullet will clean the lead out, that just imbeds it deeper so itís harder to clean.

    Springs? Agreed again, but . . .
    Glock 20 will run about anything sold, however they do this by compromising on the spring weight they use. If you are shooting heavy stuff like Double Tap 200g it will batter the gun prematurely with the factory spring and a 22 pound is a very good idea. Now with the 22 pound your gun wonít cycle correctly on lighter ammunition so you are making a trade off, give up light ammo to make the gun last or leave it stock to feed it everything knowing it wonít last as long with full house stuff.

    My advice would be to buy a G21 45acp (approved by Glock for lead I believe) then get a 10mm Wolf barrel and 22lb spring for it to shoot your 10mm lead. Then you have a 45 for cheaper plinking and a 10mm with a suported chamber for heavy stuff that's also okay for lead.
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    I agree with Gunbugs on the aftermarket parts. However a continued diet of heavy 200, 220 grain loads such as DT's ammo will like Andy said batter the gun a bit. The 22 pound spring will help. Also I've shot a lot of cast bullets in my Glocks. 40 S&W, 10 MM, 45 ACP. Just clean the gun and make sure you get any out of the barrel. The problems I encounter with case is that there is a build-up of lead at the chamber mouth (where it head-spaces) . This will eventually keep the gun from closing all the way and this is your signal to clean the lead out. Do not continue to shoot when this happens and do not force the slide forward to make it fire. Lead build-up is greatest at the throat area (between the chamber mouth and rifling and at the start of the rifling. (generally it is speculated that the bullet strips the rifling at the start because it isn't cut sharp it is smooth hammered, polygonal rifling) I suppose that is the case. There are other issues with this gun or any other semi-auto firing lead bullets but if you clean the lead out thoroughly, you'll be able to shoot cast bullets in them.

    Andy, Do you change out the trigger block and ejector when switching from 45 to 10mm barrel?
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunbugs View Post
    You will get a variety of opinions on cast bullets out of a Glock barrel. Glock's recommendation is that you do not use cast lead in their barrels. The factory recoil spring should be adequate for any factory load. The guys at Glock have spent a lot of time and money engineering their guns to work well. Most "aftermarket" parts do not increase the reliability over factory parts. Just a guy that works on guns for a living.

    The owners manuals say "lead" not "hardcast lead" this is to protect them from morons in general. Find the factory rep at the sportsman show and he will tell you face to face hardcast is fine. I know a lot of people who have no trouble with factory bbls. Just keep clean, they claim to check every 50 rounds, not necessarily clean, but keep an eye out for leading near chamber.

    However I think you will get better accuracy with an aftermarket stainless steel bbl. Been very happy with my 6" KKM stainless, very accurate and easy to clean, only shoot hardcast. I only sold my stock bbl because I thought it was the bbls fault for accuracy, but it was prolly more me and the cheapo blazers, don't recommend them at all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coopspa View Post
    I am looking at getting a 10mm, because it is time for something new. I have heard a few myths about them, and just wanted to get clarification before I purchase.
    Can you shoot hard cast bullets out of a stock G20, or does that require an aftermarket barrel?
    Do you need to upgrade the recoil spring before shooting full house loads?
    Those are the two main questions I have.
    Thanks in advance,
    Matt
    PS: Where is the best(cheapest) place to buy a new one.
    I assume you are in AK and in Anchorage? Cheapest I have personally seen is Gun Runners on Northern Lights. Under $600 with standard sights, most places are over $600. Just can't recall the exact price, but it was the by far the best I had seen.

    Yes it is worth the money for an aftermarket spring and stainless captured rod. 20-22# range, but not needed per say. Stock is 17#, same as the 9mm which is nowhere near the recoil of a 10mm! Shoot the stock bbl and make your own decision, but aftermarket might be a good choice if gonna strickly shoot hardcast like I do. Many choices in many configurations.

    Get a .22lr for easy shooting and trigger practice. Great for small game hunting and winter fun.

    I am thinking of seeing if anyone out there wants to trade their SF lower for my full size 3rd generation grip. Swapping internals wouldn't be problem.

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    The reality is that you would not shoot hardcast on a regular basis...hot loads maybe but not cast....they get expensive. I will agree with others on the recoil spring...20#s seems to run everything well. I use a 21# in my G29. I`ve noticed no difference between my stock barrel and ported aftermarket. The way I look at is you will shoot just enough cast out of it to feel proficient and then only carry it when needed...90% of my shooting is 135-200gr jacketed bullets but carry in the woods with 230 cast.


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    Quote Originally Posted by akrstabout View Post
    The owners manuals say "lead" not "hardcast lead" this is to protect them from morons in general. Find the factory rep at the sportsman show and he will tell you face to face hardcast is fine. I know a lot of people who have no trouble with factory bbls. Just keep clean, they claim to check every 50 rounds, not necessarily clean, but keep an eye out for leading near chamber.

    However I think you will get better accuracy with an aftermarket stainless steel bbl. Been very happy with my 6" KKM stainless, very accurate and easy to clean, only shoot hardcast. I only sold my stock bbl because I thought it was the bbls fault for accuracy, but it was prolly more me and the cheapo blazers, don't recommend them at all.
    I'm pretty sure that hard cast bullets are lead bullets. I'm also sure you know that and we both know the difference. I shoot a lot of cast bullets because they are lots cheaper than jacketed. i get lots of sample bullets and sample ammo to burn up and I shoot about 1600 rounds a month thru various handguns. If a person is just going to buy a box of 20 hard cast high performance loads and try them out then carry them in the woods, it really doesn't make a rats ass whose barrel is in the gun. If you shoot 400 rounds a day without a chance to clean the gun, lead alloy of even BHN 12 will still make it thru the day. I do think there is a limit and as you said morons beware. I see stupidity with guns a lot shooting your gun until it fails may be in that classification.

    The Double Tap stuff using CP bullets or Corbon with Leadhead bullets will still need the attention to cleaning if a person puts a few hundred rounds through through a gun in a day class or other such shoot and these are BHN 18, I believe.

    I am now involved with the Glock shooting program and shoot mostly Glocks these days. I was wondering what accuracy you get from the standard Glock barrels and then the aftermarket barrels. I have not found any of the aftermarket barrels to be more accurate than the standard barrel and generally give lower velocity. I have only used same length , not extended. I have factory Glocks that will shoot 2" groups at 25 yards, my old 17 and newer 35, my G30 will also. My G20 SF is about 2.5" at 25 with 200 grains at 1150 fps, handloaded.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Murphy View Post
    Andy, Do you change out the trigger block and ejector when switching from 45 to 10mm barrel?
    Iíve got a G20 and G21 (my only Glocks) with Wolf barrels for both, ether 10mm pipe (Glock or Wolf) fits and runs great on the 21 without changing a thing. You would think the 45 extractor wouldnít reliably hook 10mm but itís flawless. Iím sure over thousands of rounds the G20 would be slightly more reliable extracting but youíd need to be paying dang close attention to tell. Unlike most other Glocks all you need to make a G21 10mm is the pipe and magazine and had I known that 2 years ago IĎd have bought two G21s and no G20. I could have had two 45/10s that way but the 45 stuff won't work on the G20, the 10mm extractor is set in and hits the 45 rim.

    Accuracy with the Wolf pipes is better but again you got to be paying very close attention to see it because the Glock stuff is dang good too. A lot more accuracy is lost from that trigger than gained in a better barrel but even with that nasty trigger they are good shooters. I love the Wolf logo in the window more than anything, helps a lot with the less than attractive look of a Glock I think.

    My favorite 10 is my EAA Match that Iíve dumped about $500 worth of work into but there is a whole lot to like about that ugly combat Tupperware that just keeps puttin lead where you tell it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunbugs View Post
    You will get a variety of opinions on cast bullets out of a Glock barrel. Glock's recommendation is that you do not use cast lead in their barrels. The factory recoil spring should be adequate for any factory load. The guys at Glock have spent a lot of time and money engineering their guns to work well. Most "aftermarket" parts do not increase the reliability over factory parts. Just a guy that works on guns for a living.
    Are the lone wolf or glock parts 3.5 trigger kits worth the up grade?

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    Quote Originally Posted by murphy View Post
    ..i get lots of sample bullets and sample ammo to burn up and i shoot about 1600 rounds a month thru various handguns.
    envy......

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    Quote Originally Posted by ADfields View Post
    A lot more accuracy is lost from that trigger than gained in a better barrel but even with that nasty trigger they are good shooters.

    Oh I agree. I cannot shoot a Glock as well as anything with a good single action trigger. That's why, for me, the 3.5# Ghost connector is so much better. It's lighter but it has a built in trigger stop. No over-shoot with the trigger finger and I cut my groups in half.

    Which do you like better Wolf or Storm Lake barrels? I have a G20SF and a G21. I would like a G21SF, in OD green, of course. Then I could switch things around. I could carry a spare 10MM barrel and mag when I travel and have two calibers to shoot, but as you say I can't go the other way. Thanks for the tips.
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    I set about a few years ago to spend a lot of time with the high and mighty, Gunny endorsed, combat tupperware. I've met that goal. I am a fan but miss my good S/A triggers. Back to this subject of lead in a Glock. I shooter a lot of BHN 12 (known) and lots of whatever hardness are Laser Cast, Meister Bullets, Leadhead and Missouri Bullet works. These are not what is considered hard cast but are more typical of what sport shooters use in their pistol of the week. For those of us who shoot a lot of matches with our Glocks, CZ's, 1911's, and FN's it is just taken in stride and we clean the guns after every match or once a week. I have put 1000 or more rounds of handloaded cast bullets through a number of pistols without cleaning. I do have some guns that will not feed them at all for more than a few rounds. These guns have what I would say are match chambers. My LB 1911, NightHawk and a Kahr K40 to name a few, but Glock ain't one of them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Murphy View Post
    Which do you like better Wolf or Storm Lake barrels? I have a G20SF and a G21. I would like a G21SF, in OD green, of course. Then I could switch things around. I could carry a spare 10MM barrel and mag when I travel and have two calibers to shoot, but as you say I can't go the other way. Thanks for the tips.
    I never tried the Storm Lake stuff, I here nothing but good but havenít found reason to get one yet, same with KKM. Have no complaints at all about Wolf barrels, I donít think any of them would let you down but I sure like that Wolf logo in the window on mine.
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    I have a Glock-20 SF model that I carry in a chest holster when I fly. Originally I intended to use a Lone Wolf barrel, but in the long run I just went with a 20 pound Wolf Spring and stainless guide rod.
    It is set up to shoot my warm 200 grains full jacketed loads from virgin brass. They are right at 1,200 fps across the chronograph and they shoot a good tight group. And yet the 20 pound spring still functions well with factory ammo.

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    I've shot a 20 that would lead badly with some Missouri bullets that are sort of hard, but they did fine in a Lone Wolf barrel. Don't know if using a different size bullet would help or not. The stock barrel did great with Double Tap hardcast, it seemed as clean after shooting as it was before.

    On a lot of guns they say the gun is battered worse with a heavier spring, so I don't worry about springs. The stock one functions fine. A heavier spring trades the recoil force to the rear for recoil force forward. There is only so much force your hand can take, so it seems like that limits the force to the rear anyway.

    There is one difference between the 20/21, and that is the weight of the slide. I don't know how much the difference is, but a heavier slide reduces the battering the gun gets. It is also part of the reason so many of the Glocks can use the same recoil spring assembly.

    The light connector and 6?lb trigger spring change the trigger so it can be nicer to use, but I am not sure if it is actually better. You trade a heavy, gritty trigger for a longer pull, lighter, less gritty trigger. On the one I was using, once the trigger started getting decent, it stopped releasing the striker...

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    Quote Originally Posted by HBM View Post
    On a lot of guns they say the gun is battered worse with a heavier spring, so I don't worry about springs. The stock one functions fine. A heavier spring trades the recoil force to the rear for recoil force forward. There is only so much force your hand can take, so it seems like that limits the force to the rear anyway.

    There is one difference between the 20/21, and that is the weight of the slide. I don't know how much the difference is, but a heavier slide reduces the battering the gun gets. It is also part of the reason so many of the Glocks can use the same recoil spring assembly.
    True the heaver spring snaps it shut fasted/harder and that is also hard on the gun. BUT there is a lot more surface to batter going forward than backward, a lot more meet to take the beating and the case and extractor also helps on closing. I can feel the slide slamming into the stop with stock spring, beating the snot out of it and me. 22 pound makes it feel like butter, no slamming/slapping/banging around in my hand and not only better for the gun but better feel and back on the mark much faster because itĎs operating more smoothly. Try it, you will feel a heck of a diferance in the recoil profile, feels way better with the full house stuff.

    The extra weight of the G20 slide over the G21 is the marital left in the barrel's smaller hole, when you put a 10mm barrel in the G21 slide you moved that extra mass too.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Murphy View Post
    I'm pretty sure that hard cast bullets are lead bullets. I'm also sure you know that and we both know the difference. I shoot a lot of cast bullets because they are lots cheaper than jacketed. i get lots of sample bullets and sample ammo to burn up and I shoot about 1600 rounds a month thru various handguns. If a person is just going to buy a box of 20 hard cast high performance loads and try them out then carry them in the woods, it really doesn't make a rats ass whose barrel is in the gun. If you shoot 400 rounds a day without a chance to clean the gun, lead alloy of even BHN 12 will still make it thru the day. I do think there is a limit and as you said morons beware. I see stupidity with guns a lot shooting your gun until it fails may be in that classification.

    The Double Tap stuff using CP bullets or Corbon with Leadhead bullets will still need the attention to cleaning if a person puts a few hundred rounds through through a gun in a day class or other such shoot and these are BHN 18, I believe.

    I am now involved with the Glock shooting program and shoot mostly Glocks these days. I was wondering what accuracy you get from the standard Glock barrels and then the aftermarket barrels. I have not found any of the aftermarket barrels to be more accurate than the standard barrel and generally give lower velocity. I have only used same length , not extended. I have factory Glocks that will shoot 2" groups at 25 yards, my old 17 and newer 35, my G30 will also. My G20 SF is about 2.5" at 25 with 200 grains at 1150 fps, handloaded.
    Yep hardcast is lead! But as you know different hardnesses makes a huge difference in leading issues. The general public reads lead and classifies it all together, which is why glock does it that way. HBM lower down in this thread mentions Missouri lead or something fouled but the DT didn't. I think it is fine to shoot in stock bbl, but I sold mine before I bought hardcast lead bullets. So I can't test. But my buddy bought a stock G20 and has shot Hardcast with no problems, agian though not tons.

    Murphy have you tried the 6# trigger spring? It makes the trigger really easy and soft. I took my connector and 6# spring out and need to try it agian now that I have a wolff 5# firing pin spring, stronger than stock is all I know for sure, but think stock is 4.5#. Anyways it makes the trigger pull crisp at the end. Will play around one of these days swaping different combos with said spring and connector rod. The .22lr kits makes it cheap to play around!

    As far as G21 with G20 bbl conversion. The gen 3 G21 I have seen have a wider breach at the top where it meets the slide. The slide is notched to fit the bbl, the g20 blls are narrower there and does't look good to me! I am not sure if they changed this so it is not as appealing for people to try or if guys just do it anyways. Definately a difference in new G3 models.

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    Thanks for the replies. I have never been one to buy something I had to modify before I could use it as needed. I think a new pistol is in order. Now to get the wife to agree.
    Wish me luck!

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