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Thread: How many cub flights for moose meat?

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    Default How many cub flights for moose meat?

    How many cub flights has it taken you to get a moose out? Boned meat, cape and horns? I will ask my pilot but I was curious. Most guys end up with 450-475 pounds of boned out meat, I figure the camp and horns = 150, thus 600 total. Payload is 250 a trip.

    Hopefully I could get a bigger plane etc but I am curious.

    Maybe fly meat in 2 trips, with cape and then fly me out with horns on wing?

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    Quote Originally Posted by DonV View Post
    How many cub flights has it taken you to get a moose out? Boned meat, cape and horns? I will ask my pilot but I was curious. Most guys end up with 450-475 pounds of boned out meat, I figure the camp and horns = 150, thus 600 total. Payload is 250 a trip.

    Hopefully I could get a bigger plane etc but I am curious.

    Maybe fly meat in 2 trips, with cape and then fly me out with horns on wing?
    Private pilots are allowed to transport horns on the floats or wings, but outfitters are not. I remember it taking about 4 trips to get my hunter, a big bull, and all our gear out. With me by myself and my rifle on the last trip.

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    Hi Don,

    This isn't an easy question to answer for the following reason: There is a legal useful weight limit for a cub and this includes gas, pilot and passenger. A cub usually holds 36 gallons of gas when full; gas is 6#/gallon and a standard cub uses about 8 gallons per hour and flies about 90 mph. If the round trip to pick up the meat is 10 miles then a pilot can fly without full tanks and carry more meat. However if the round trip is 90 miles, then the plane will have to fly 2 hours and use 16 gallons of gas; some extra gas will be necessary. Also, if the strip the plane is picking up the meat on is short, then the pilot won't be able to get off the ground with as much meat as if it is a long strip.It isn't easy to give this answer for anothe pilot, especially with so many unkmown factors.

    John

  4. #4

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    Bare minimun of three loads, just for the moose. Assuming the moose is an average size moose (600-800 lbs. of meat, antlers, and hide). I am pretty sure cubs are only allowed by law to take 250 lbs. or cargo these days. Long gone are the days of old where you might be able to get it all out in two. Then you will also have a trip for you and 50 lbs. of gear. And probably an additional load for all the rest of your camp gear and raft or whatever else you need. I'd say plan on at least 5-6 trips for a moose hunt with a cub.

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    Private pilots are allowed to transport horns on the floats or wings, but outfitters are not.
    40 Mile hauled our antlers strapped to the struts of the cub. I think the no external load rule is only if there is a passenger on board. Our moose with 40 Mile Air came out in two loads. One load came out with Randy (the lighter of the two pilots) and it weighed 250# stacked right where a passenger would sit. The second had 225# of meat with Leif. Antlers were on the struts of the Cub.

    We brought back all boned out meat (the only way 40 Mile will do it) and no cape.

  6. #6

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    Although I'm not about to name the pilot, the moose in my avatar was flown out in one cub trip. The meat was 100% boned, and we got all of it. Ribs, neck, brisket, sides...everything. I helped load the plane. The skull was tied to a strut. To top it off, the strip we were on was almost unbelievably short and technical. I know beyond all doubt that he exceeded the listed capabilities of the Cub, but he flew it a long ways to Fairbanks. My usual experience has been that 2 Cub flights will tale out an entire boned moose and the head.

  7. #7

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    Sure, boned out you will most certainly save trips. But I am assuming the guy who started this thread is a non-resident and he should probably be informed that many places in AK do not allow you to bone out the front and hind quarters. And it definitely is not recommended. Especially for non-residents, because the meat will most definitely spoil before he gets home. For residents who can get their meat to a freezer quickly, it might not be a problem. But boning the meat out definitely speeds up the spoilage. The more surface area on the meat that is exposed, the more spoilage. The other thing this guy should be aware of is Alaska is pretty strict (and rightfully so) on wanton waste. Boning out typically leads to more wanton waste issues IMO. Especially if you are new to Alaska and you may not be familiar with the rules and what exactly needs to be brought out. For example all the neck meat, brisket, rib meat etc. I know 40 mile air is pretty strict about boning out their meat, because they are concerned with safety. But hopefully the advice given here doesn't lead to sloppy meat care in the field. Just my two cents. I also am aware that cubs are physically able to carry more than 250 lbs., but I believe new FFA regulations prohibit them from doing so. If I were you, I would check with the pilot first. Ask for specific clarification on weight restrictions. Check with Alaska Department of Fish and Game on the regulations for the area on boning meat and meat salvage. And if you are in an area that allows boning, do some research to try to find out how to prevent meat spoilage and what legally needs to be salvaged.

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    You can legally fly the difference between your empty weight and your gross weight. Some cubs are limited to 1750 total gross wt. Some have been modified to a gross wt of 2000lbs. If your empty wt is 1100 you can haul either 650 or 900 this includes the pilot/fuel/load if the pilot weighs 200 and the fuel weighs 130 your moose can't weigh more than 320lbs or 570lbs just to give you an idea of the numbers you are dealing with. There is no 250lb limit on cubs...with the 180lb 3rd seat mod. You can load a cub up well beyond 250....the 40mile air guys operate under Federal aviation regulations part 135....they are going to be less likely to fly overloaded, Than say an outfitter/guide operating under part 91 rules....just been my observation over the years....long answer to your question....highly unlikely your pilot was operating under gross wt. in the scenario that you laid out....but he could have been if he and the moose didn't weigh much and the cub was modified to the high gross and he didn't need much fuel......

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    not too sure on the antler thing but I think it is also like Doug said no passenger thing...I have seen a small aluminum boat tied to the struts of a beaver before on a transporters plane but again no passengers.

    I do believe like most said two for meat/antlers and one for hunter and gear...but like pointed out lots of variables could change that...

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    Quote Originally Posted by pipercub View Post
    You can legally fly the difference between your empty weight and your gross weight. Some cubs are limited to 1750 total gross wt. Some have been modified to a gross wt of 2000lbs. If your empty wt is 1100 you can haul either 650 or 900 this includes the pilot/fuel/load if the pilot weighs 200 and the fuel weighs 130 your moose can't weigh more than 320lbs or 570lbs just to give you an idea of the numbers you are dealing with. There is no 250lb limit on cubs...with the 180lb 3rd seat mod. You can load a cub up well beyond 250....the 40mile air guys operate under Federal aviation regulations part 135....they are going to be less likely to fly overloaded, Than say an outfitter/guide operating under part 91 rules....just been my observation over the years....long answer to your question....highly unlikely your pilot was operating under gross wt. in the scenario that you laid out....but he could have been if he and the moose didn't weigh much and the cub was modified to the high gross and he didn't need much fuel......
    part 91 and part 135. That's what I was thinking of. I just couldn't think of the name. Now I remember hearing about these regulations, but I don't remember the specifics. Does this have to do with the difference between an air taxi operator and a guide flying under a private pilot license? Can you elaborate more on the specifics of the difference between part 91 and part 135 regulations? I know this makes a big difference on how much weight they can carry. I know a lot of guys are operating under that 135 rule. Which is why I was saying 250 lbs for a cub. Does it have to do with insurance or what?

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    The amount of weight you can haul wouldn't change between part 91 & 135.... the level of professionalism or competency is higher in The 135 operations....commercial or ATP license required. Part 91 you may have someone with a private pilots license flying you around, who may or may not have less experience flying. The 135 guys have higher weather minimums to follow. More training, checkrides, generally more scrutinized....the aircraft they fly are going to also be more scrutinized, better maintained....

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    Quote Originally Posted by driveacub View Post
    Hi Don,

    This isn't an easy question to answer for the following reason: There is a legal useful weight limit for a cub and this includes gas, pilot and passenger. A cub usually holds 36 gallons of gas when full; gas is 6#/gallon and a standard cub uses about 8 gallons per hour and flies about 90 mph. If the round trip to pick up the meat is 10 miles then a pilot can fly without full tanks and carry more meat. However if the round trip is 90 miles, then the plane will have to fly 2 hours and use 16 gallons of gas; some extra gas will be necessary. Also, if the strip the plane is picking up the meat on is short, then the pilot won't be able to get off the ground with as much meat as if it is a long strip.It isn't easy to give this answer for anothe pilot, especially with so many unkmown factors.

    John
    Quite obviously, I meant to say if the ONE WAY trip was 90 miles then it would take 2 hrs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bear View Post
    not too sure on the antler thing but I think it is also like Doug said no passenger thing...
    Yes, you're right....with no passenger. I should have clarified. But that's commercial. A private pilot can carry horns (or whatever) that way even if he has a passenger.....no?

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    No
    .......................

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    Quote Originally Posted by AK-HUNT View Post
    No
    .......................
    ok so could you elaborate if you know the rules....it would be helpful

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    Quote Originally Posted by AK-HUNT View Post
    No
    .......................
    So how come we see it done so much?......are all these guys flying solo, or just a lot of them breaking the rules.....???

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    Pm to follow.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DonV View Post
    How many cub flights has it taken you to get a moose out?
    Are you going change something based on the answer? Maybe not shoot a moose?
    Death is like an old whore in a bar--I'll buy her a drink but I won't go upstairs with her.

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    I have never hunted moose or caribou in one of the units where meat must be left on the bone until out of the field. I agree wholeheartedly that bone-in is a preferable way to handle meat if possible. Sometimes it's just out of the question though. Our pilot(s) have always mandated "no bone" when they fly our meat. To me, that means we have to do an excellent job with caring for our meat. That starts from the moment we cut through the hide, and doesn't stop until the meat is dropped at the processor's dock. I'm four-square for making meat a priority! We don't move the antlers off our kills until 100% of the meat work is done, and that's a hard rule we won't violate. In years of dead moose and caribou...and tonnage of meat...here is one truthful statement: the only meat we ever lost happened after it was completely out of the field and at the processor. You guys in the Fairbanks area know the situation I'm referring to.

    I have told a number of people that boned meat may be more work and require extra care, but that doesn't mean you can't have 100% recovery and 100% same quality as bone-in meat. After eating 3 of my own bull kills, I can assure you that all the good meat care is time and effort well spent!

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    Only done one cub-assisted moose hunt. We flew two hunters, a light camp, and small bull (not boned out) out in two trips.

    Don, I believe the operators in your area generally quote a flat rate to fly out an animal, rather than an hourly rate, so it shouldn't matter how many loads it takes.

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