Encore 50 caliber

[desertdog]

Cast Iron...Stick with it! First off..you said the gun was new..gotta really clean out the gook they have in the barrels before you start shooting! The stuff will take a long time to go if you just start shooting, scrub like crasy and that will help..tc have usually got tight barrels, so a little lapping will help, then try a wack of sabots if that is what you are going to use, as they do come in diffrent thickness, and can really make a diffrence. Bullets make a huge diffrence as well as how much powder you are dumping in. Start low and work up, impact can be vary a lot or little,some guns like certain bullets others not so fussy. Consistace of how hard you seat the bullet makes a diffrence. Let the gun cool, and enjoy it. Took me about 300 rounds to get really dialed in, but it is a shooter! I load a 250 gr shockwave bonded tc, change out the sabot, drop in 115 gr of blackhorn...out of a tc triumph. This load has lots of smack for anything I want to pull on. Ya I know blackhorn is expensive, but there is something about being able to 30 shots without cleaning the bore(you do have to clean out the plug) and consistant shots that it is worth it to me..also you can charge the gun, and if you leave it for a few days no harm will come to the bore. That may be not good for some folks, but it is what I use. Good luck!....Desertdog

[cusackla]

Hey Cast Iron, I broke in a brand new TC Pro Hunter today and maybe can shed some input....
1st, my new gun had a trigger pull of almost 6lbs - so I ordered some trigger springs from Bellmstc and for $49.00 it is breaking nicely at 3.75lbs. ( This is my second TC and the 1st needed a trigger job also to improve the groups ).
Today I shot TC 250gr Sabots and put 3/3 shot groups at about 1in at 75yards. I also shot 1/ 3 shot group with 223gn powerbelts 1.4 in and 245gr powerbelts - 1.25 using 100 grains of pyrodex pellets...
I swab the barrel about 10 strokes ( pull it all the way out each time so you get last few inches good and clean ) with 2 patches pre-soaked from TC in a convenient jar. I will say the powerbelts load much easier but are not quite as accurate in general.
I was adjusting the scope on the 250 gr loads as it was almost dead on right from the start or all 10 shots would have likely ended up under 2 inches...
The cleaning and trigger pull are def pluses when it comes to accuracy with BP guns..... The Bellmtc kits are easy to install and take about 1 - 1/2 hrs...
Good Luck!

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Smokey makes an important here. I have found that if you want repeat accuracy, you new to shoot every shot with a clean barrel. I have found this to be the biggest common denominator over everything else. I did not get repeat accuracy with any combination until I started cleaning the barrel with TC Solvent (or any other product made specifically for black powder). I have both the Encore and the Omega and both of them performed very well once I leaned the importance of a clean bore. I also found that 250 TC Easy Glides and 100 Grains of Triple Seven had the best overall repeatability.

[Cast Iron]

Got to shoot the Encore some more yesterday. Fired several rounds through it and it seems to be improving some. I need to give a little more information on this gun. The barrel is new, I have had the rest for several years and used it with a 7mm Rem. mag. barrel. The triggger is good on this gun, and I have been cleaning the barrel good between every shot. I also put a different scope on it and tried that. Not sure that it helped any but I had bought a used scope and needed to try it out anyway. The wind was blowing about 30 mph here yesterday so I only shot at about 30 yards as I can put a target up at that distance in a sheltered location. At this distance the gun started out shooting around a 4 inch group with 240 gr. Hornady saboted bullets. When I stoped shooting the gun was shooting around 1.5 inch groups. This was the only bullet I tried because of the wind and I have a bunch of these that was bought at Wal-mart on clearance sale. All of these was shot with 100 gr's. of Pyrodex RS. I will try to shoot some more in a few days and try some different bullets and a few more different powder charges.

I could see some improvement in the way the gun was shooting yesterday so I do not mind putting in some time with this gun. I just hope it will keep improving until it gets the group small enough to take it hunting. Thanks to all that have posted on this so far.

[GD Yankee]

Maybe I missed it, but are you shooting pellets or loose powder? If loose powder, try downloading to about 90 grains. I have a 54 cal T/C Renegade and I found it very sensitive to over powering. If I went much past 90 grains it started throwing bullets all over the place.

Also, until you shoot at 100 yards in low wind conditions, I wouldn't get too exercised about your groups. If you shoot a three inch group at 100 yds, I wouldn't be too upset.

[Cast Iron]

I am shooting loose powder.

[Smokey]

Cast Iron, I am not a big fan of loose powder for the simple reason that I am using the prelubed cleaning TC patches that leave a greasy film in the bbl when they are used. The loose granules will cling to this as they fall down the bbl and I figure get very oily - as you ram a bullet down it compacts this material into a wad that in my mind will not give consistent ignition rates.
Your system may not be doing this but I would sure try some pellets to see if it helps...

[Thebear_78]

I've been really impressed with the 777 Magnum pellets and 250gr barnes MZ expander. Chrono'd at just under 2000fps and effective on game.

[Cast Iron]

I use the prelubed TC patches also. After them I run a dry patch or two down the bore before loading again. When the powder or pellets go in it is in a clean and dry bore. I have several other muzzleloading guns besides this one. I have not shot this one through a conograph yet but all my other ones show more consistant loads using loose powder than with pellets. My thoughts with this is the pellets with the hole through the middle do not ignite the same each time. I will try some different powders and bullets the next time I get to shoot and the wind is not blowing as bad. Have any of the rest of you compared the loose powder to pellets with a conograph?

[BrownBear]

Have any of the rest of you compared the loose powder to pellets with a conograph?

It's been a couple of years, but yeah. My results agree with yours.

Here's something else to check. Try the pellets after the box has been open a month, three months, six months and a year. The results get worse and worse as ignition goes south. Velocity drops off the table a year after the box is opened. Right into the trash. I quit buying pellets entirely.

American Pioneer/Schlockeys Gold was the worst by a long mile- both in loose and pellets.

For some reason I'm not seeing near the variations or drop in loose powder after opening the cans. Shooting them all alongside Goex real black at the same intervals, the Goex was as true a year later as when the can was first opened. Really stable stuff, and cheap compared to throwing away a half box of pellets.

[roadapples]

I am still keeping up with this thread and thanks to all that have posted. I have picked up some more bullets and another scope to try. Will post more when I get a chance to shoot again.

If you are planning on a muzzleloader only hunt hope you can return that scope- Page 19 of the regulations= No Scope on muzzleloader restricted hunts.

[Dirty Swede]

Try hornady xpt 44 cal 240 gr bullets, with the green sabot. 100 gr of pyrodex pellet. Also mark your ramrod so you know that each bulletand sabot are being pushed to the same spot. That last inch or 2 of the barrel seems to be very tight! I dont clean barrel but every 4-6 shots. Both of my t/c omegas will shoot less than 2" at a 100 yards all day long with this combo off a millet foam rest

[Lowrider]

Just a point on the pellet vs loose poweder....I changed from 50 cal to .45 and shoot 180 gr XTP with loose Triple 7 and get 2-3" 100 groups consistantly. BTW, I cut the barrel to 20"and opened the muzzle to make sabot loading easier and the combo kills whitetail DRT and I think it would work just as well on elk and moose. I tried 200 gr cast with a sabot and it did not do as well.


Bottom line, I've had better results with loose powder than pellets and I always use a dry bore because there is no need for lube with sabots and they clean up easier.


If you can use a Savage Model 10ML with smokeless...maybe it's cheating, but there is none better for muzzle loading big game!!

[elmerkeithclone]

CastIron I have just wandered onto this thread. Hows it going? Are the groups tightening up any? In my life I have bought two brand new TCs that wouldnt shoot for crap out of the box. One was a stainless FireHawk and the other was an Encore(early...probably one of the first Encores). I got rid of them both and closed the door on Thompson Center. I was never going to own another one. Then I went to a muzzleloader shooting, coon dog trading, trap swapping, lie telling get together in Rutledge Missouri. I just happened to be in the area and didn't go out of my way to get there but ended up there anyhow. There was an old gentleman there that was shooting a FireHawk that was just like the worst shooting hunk of junk FireHawk that I gave up on. He was shooting lights out with his so I had to know. I told him about my misfortunes with TC and he smiled. He told me that the Firehawk that he was using that day was exactly the same as mine when he first got it. In fact he said that he had several bullets that keyholed in the first dozen or so shots fired through the gun. I was starting to think he was full of wind and I think the old boy read that on my face or something because his whole complexion changed and he got serious with me. I then knew he was being square with me and that I needed to listen. He asked me how many rounds I shot through those two guns before shooting for groups and I told him that I doubt that I had shot 50 rounds through the two guns combined. He said boy ya didn't give them a fighting chance. He said some muzzleloaders will shoot good out of the box but many won't. He told me to never judge a muzzleloaders potential until it had at least 200 rounds put through it. Some/most come in quicker than that but his FireHawk didn't reach its peak performance until over 200 rounds.

I left there that day thinking I know where that FireHawk is, it's in the backroom of the local gun shop where it has sat since I gave up on it. That day on my way home I stopped at the gunshop and picked that gun up. Over the course of the next month I shot that gun a whole bunch. I used up all of the partial cans of BP, BP substitute just whatever, I even shot up a full pound of Jim Shockey's awful stuff that someone abandoned at the shop. Some of it was way old but I didn't care. I was shooting about 60 grains of whatever just to get projectiles out the hole. The projectiles were mostly lead conicals. Long story short that after I got all of the junk stuff shot up off the shelf at the shop I put a scope on it and zeroed it in using Pyrodex RS and some Lee real bullets. I'll be darned... it was a shooter I was just making the hole bigger at 50 yards. Same gun that wouldn't put 3 rounds on a pie plate at 50 yards when I gave up on it the first time. The fella that drives our cities street sweeper has killed deer with that FireHawk every year since and I think a man would get a butt whooping before that big fella would part with that musket.

Well Cast Iron I picked up a new Omega a couple of weeks ago and have only shot 5 rounds through it but that was enough to tell me that it needs to be shot a whole lot before I turn it over to my niece to use during the mid September youth season.

Be sure to let us know how your Encore shoots a couple hundred rounds from now.

On a similar note I bought a new Benjamin Titan pellet gun a while back and the manual that came with tha gun warns not to expect much for accuracy until at least 100 rounds had been fired through the gun and they werent kidding!