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Thread: What have you done to help the animals you hunt?

  1. #1

    Default What have you done to help the animals you hunt?

    After this long winter and reading so much from arm chair quarterbacks who are against predator control and any REAL help to the game populations you hunt? I tend to see more people more than happy to go out and shoot a moose or caribou to eat, but then bad mouth any type of program that will actually help increase the population of the very animals that you eat.

    This has become a very frustrating topic for me, as I see more and more people willing to go get their moose or caribou, but when it comes to spending money to harvest a predator or two, they hem and haw and complain about how expensive it is to do it. We need more people to become pro-active in this hunting business. If you take a moose or caribou, maybe harvest a bear or a wolf is the chance arises. I have heard so many people talk about I already shot a bear, so why shoot another? We'll if you even decided to really see how much damage bears do to the spring ungulate populations, read a study or two.

    Secondly, since a lot of people think it is wrong for the state to pay a "bounty", then if some private people were willing to create a program to pay for the wolves (ie, the Fortymile program years ago), would you be willing to put in money towards it? I am betting no.

    I am certainly not a proponent of killing all wolves or bears, but would like to do enough to allow the moose and caribou to get a good foothold.

    I can offer many examples of me going out of my own way to harvest a predator, but I would like to know what you are doing to help?

  2. #2
    Forum Admin Brian M's Avatar
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    I'm one of those that isn't really comfortable with the predator control programs. In the case of biological emergencies I'm all for it, but just to increase #s for hunters, well...the science often doesn't back such an approach. If our goals are sustainable moderate #s, great...but some of the stated goals would put so many animals (and hunters) in the field that habitat degredation would be the only logical result.

    That being said, I'll take any chance I can get to harvest a predator. I'd way rather do it than pay someone else a bounty to do so, and I agree with northway that more people should. A few years ago I took a wolf while sheep hunting. I took my first sheep in this area back in 98, but since then I have seen fewer sheep and have been finding a startling amount of wolf scat with sheep hair in it. I've only seen a wolf in the area one other time, but it was on August 9th, so he ran by unscathed (pretty amazing experience, actually). I'm also planning on going out brown bear hunting in a couple of weeks in an area that I'm hoping to scout for moose later this year. We'll see how that goes...

    That being said, I'd like to point out that helping out the animals we hunt goes far beyond culling predators. What have I done to help the animals I hunt? I've participated in stream cleanups, in roadside cleanup, and I recycle every bit of trash that I possibly can - both in my home and in my classroom. You want to protect hunting? Then protect habitat. While predator #s may present a short-term threat to ungulate populations, habitat degredation and loss present a much more serious long-term risk. It hasn't been too much of an issue in Alaska yet, but don't think that it won't become one in the future. I'm not suggesting that we lock up more land in parks, but I sure wish more hunters would do their part in habitat protection measures (the annual Jim Creek cleanup is coming up soon, isn't it?) We should be the first to do such things, but I see far more Sierra Club bumper stickers at the recycling center than I do NRA stickers - and that, my friends, is a shame.

    End rant.

    -Brian

  3. #3

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    Northway, I try and do my part. The bear and wolf limits are liberal in our area and I don't have a problem killing one. You can flesh them and tan them for a reasonable price and you always have it. Our caribou population has dropped from 220,000 animals to 45,000 in a matter of 7 years. We always make a point to go on a spring hunt to get a bear.

    I agree that you if you want to continue to fill the freezer you have to catch a predator.

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    Member ak_powder_monkey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian M View Post

    That being said, I'd like to point out that helping out the animals we hunt goes far beyond culling predators. What have I done to help the animals I hunt? I've participated in stream cleanups, in roadside cleanup, and I recycle every bit of trash that I possibly can - both in my home and in my classroom. You want to protect hunting? Then protect habitat. While predator #s may present a short-term threat to ungulate populations, habitat degredation and loss present a much more serious long-term risk. It hasn't been too much of an issue in Alaska yet, but don't think that it won't become one in the future. I'm not suggesting that we lock up more land in parks, but I sure wish more hunters would do their part in habitat protection measures (the annual Jim Creek cleanup is coming up soon, isn't it?) We should be the first to do such things, but I see far more Sierra Club bumper stickers at the recycling center than I do NRA stickers - and that, my friends, is a shame.

    End rant.

    -Brian
    Boy I agree with you 100% hunters should be on the forefront of the conservation movement. For my part I joined delta waterfowl, and I pick up letter when I see it out on the duck flats. Not a lot I know but every little bit helps. Intersting note on recycling - when you recycle one beer can its equivlent to running your laptop for 10 hours!
    I choose to fly fish, not because its easy, but because its hard.

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    Went up to my cabin to haul material (unit 13)and seen more moose on my lake Sat. then I have in 5 years of HUNTING them in the same area.I talked to the area bio last year and they said they wiped the local wolf pack from 37 to 2 and are now going after the bears.THE PROGRAM WORKS!!Keep on fighting the fight Northway!!I know I do my part.

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    Maybe the reason one doesn't see NRA bump sticks at the recycling center is that hunters realize, at least in Alaska, that recycling may not make economic sense.
    Maybe you could provide some statistics if I'm wrong, Brian. I'm thinking that there aren't any places in Alaska that actually use collected items like cans, bottles, newspapers. So all those things need to be shipped south to actually be used. Perhaps the cost and environmental effect of shipping those things outweighs the benefit of collecting them. Of course, just getting those things off the streets and streams is good in itself. I certainly can't see the wisdom of recycling in rural Ak.
    I can't help being a lazy, dumb, weekend warrior.......I have a JOB!
    I have less friends now!!

  7. #7

    Default Aluminum cans

    Want to get more for your aluminum cans? Just burn them for heat they produce more heat BTUs than oil or gas. The heat reduces the need to return cans to a collection point( car gas and emissions) and the transport to a recycler plus the recycling.
    Don't think it's possible? Check out this website.
    www.burnaluminum.com

    It will become a commonplace way of recycling cans, in states where there isn't a deposit.
    Thanks to all sportsmen and sportswomen who help leave the widerness wild and uncluttered.
    " Americans will never need the 2nd Amendment, until the government tries to take it away."

    On the road of life..... Pot holes keep things interesting !

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    Forum Admin Brian M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by martentrapper View Post
    Maybe the reason one doesn't see NRA bump sticks at the recycling center is that hunters realize, at least in Alaska, that recycling may not make economic sense.
    Maybe you could provide some statistics if I'm wrong, Brian. I'm thinking that there aren't any places in Alaska that actually use collected items like cans, bottles, newspapers. So all those things need to be shipped south to actually be used. Perhaps the cost and environmental effect of shipping those things outweighs the benefit of collecting them. Of course, just getting those things off the streets and streams is good in itself. I certainly can't see the wisdom of recycling in rural Ak.
    marten - Good point about rural AK - it certainly wouldn't make financial sense out there. As for Anchorage, though, it's a different story...at least for some recyclable materials. Newpapers are used by a local insulation company. They create home insulation out of shredded newspaper that is more efficient and less expensive to make than traditional fiberglass insulation. I have it in my home, and I like knowing that's where my papers go after I read them. Glass is used by two sources - the Alaska Railroad and a sandblaster in Seward for marine work. The Railroad uses the glass instead of sand for traction on their rails during the icy months. It is less expensive for them and it doesn't require mining of sand that they used to use (same story for the marine sandblasting as well). Aluminum, scrap metal, etc. are less economical to recycle in Alaska, but ALPAR has set up reduced shipping fees for goods that have to be shipped south as most container ships leave Anchorage mostly empty. Obviously recycling isn't the whole answer, but in some cases - at least for us semi-urban folks - it's at least a small step towards conservation.

    -Brian

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kusko View Post
    Northway, I try and do my part. The bear and wolf limits are liberal in our area and I don't have a problem killing one. You can flesh them and tan them for a reasonable price and you always have it. Our caribou population has dropped from 220,000 animals to 45,000 in a matter of 7 years. We always make a point to go on a spring hunt to get a bear.

    I agree that you if you want to continue to fill the freezer you have to catch a predator.
    with numbers like that I'd say wolves and bears are the least of your problems
    I choose to fly fish, not because its easy, but because its hard.

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    Thumbs up

    Brian M, thanks for finishing the recycling scenerio, thats seems to be part of many problems in Alaskan, the details aren't complete, and the devils in the details. Myself I'll also " take any chance I can get to harvest a predator", especially in a biological "predator pit". I believe our biologists and conservation managers should be able to utilize whatever tools they deem necessary/efficient to stabilize predator-prey balances, without constant interference, litigation and utilization of pro-wolf medias, ESPECIALLY when these predators have never been threatened or faced with extincition from wildlife managers or hunters.

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by ak_powder_monkey View Post
    with numbers like that I'd say wolves and bears are the least of your problems

    Boy it's hard to say one **** thing on this forum w/o being scrutinized! Listen Powder Monkey, you don't have to be condescending. I realize that bears and wolves are not the primary problem with our caribou. I was just saying that if you shot a few you would help the population.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kusko View Post
    I agree that you if you want to continue to fill the freezer you have to catch a predator.

    Thats why

    ....
    I choose to fly fish, not because its easy, but because its hard.

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    Good Grief, Brian:
    What better reason, or goal, do we have for predator control, than to “increase #s for hunters”?

    I would have to agree with some of the things you say, but then you seem to be talking both sides of the issue, and rationalizing. What do you recommend for improving the habitat in Unit 13, for example, other than limiting animals and hunters?

    Sierra Clubbers are against hunting. You can’t compromise with them. I wouldn’t join them at the Recycling Center or any other place.
    Smitty of the North

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty of the North View Post

    Sierra Clubbers are against hunting. You can’t compromise with them. I wouldn’t join them at the Recycling Center or any other place.
    Smitty of the North
    Obviosly you don't know the sierra club which supports ethical hunting, they haven't done a good enough job stating that of course. And of course without the sierra club there would be very little to no public hunting in Alaska.
    I choose to fly fish, not because its easy, but because its hard.

  15. #15

    Default Akpwdmky??????

    Quote Originally Posted by ak_powder_monkey View Post
    Obviosly you don't know the sierra club which supports ethical hunting, they haven't done a good enough job stating that of course. And of course without the sierra club there would be very little to no public hunting in Alaska.
    I am lost there. Are you one of those "outside" educated people? Oh, forget that question, I just saw Juneau in your location. Surprise, surprise.

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    Quote Originally Posted by northway View Post
    I am lost there. Are you one of those "outside" educated people? Oh, forget that question, I just saw Juneau in your location. Surprise, surprise.
    Nope educated at chugiak high school, and University of Alaska southeast, the key word of course is educated.
    I choose to fly fish, not because its easy, but because its hard.

  17. #17
    Mark
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    Quote Originally Posted by northway View Post
    ......I tend to see more people more than happy to go out and shoot a moose or caribou to eat, but then bad mouth any type of program that will actually help increase the population of the very animals that you eat.........
    That ain't me.

    .....This has become a very frustrating topic for me, as I see more and more people willing to go get their moose or caribou, but when it comes to spending money to harvest a predator or two, they hem and haw and complain about how expensive it is to do it.......
    Yeah. That's me.....

    .....We need more people to become pro-active in this hunting business. If you take a moose or caribou, maybe harvest a bear or a wolf is the chance arises....
    Yeah, I'll do that.

    It ain't a "harvest", but if I get a shot, I'll take it.

    Of course, there are legions of "residents" in the field, and fall incidental harvest is a significant portion of the total big game "harvest" of predators.

    It ain't enough.........

    ....I have heard so many people talk about I already shot a bear, so why shoot another?....
    Yeah. That's me, too.

    ...We'll if you even decided to really see how much damage bears do to the spring ungulate populations, read a study or two....
    I'm familiar with the studies.

    ....Secondly, since a lot of people think it is wrong for the state to pay a "bounty", then if some private people were willing to create a program to pay for the wolves (ie, the Fortymile program years ago), would you be willing to put in money towards it? I am betting no.....
    That would be a darned good bet. I'm not digging in my wallet for proper game management. Not one red cent.

    I'm not going to pay these buffoons any more money than I can.

    What for? Reward them for screwing me around?

    You want me to pay for this garbage voluntarily?

    Sorry. I'm already "paying" enough.

    ....I am certainly not a proponent of killing all wolves or bears, but would like to do enough to allow the moose and caribou to get a good foothold......
    I'm all for balanced species populations. Considering how many people there are now, it's incredible how many predators there are and not surprising how the competition is so fierce among people for the remaining ungulates.

    I can offer many examples of me going out of my own way to harvest a predator, but I would like to know what you are doing to help?
    I spend both time and money in the spring hunting bears. I'm not working myself to death, and I don't bang my head on the wall if I don't get one, but I'm out there.

    The problem is the attitude within society, and part of that is because the kooks and media moguls have framed this situation to their advantage.

    The problem is only partially because I'm not out there trying to kill bears and wolves.

    How many bears and wolves am I (as an "urban" resident) required to kill before I "qualify"?

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    Default Starting Chapter

    I am starting a MATSU chapter of the Alaska Moose Federation. Bottom line is we need to grow more moose. The moose numbers have fallen from 280K to just over 100K in the last 12 years.

    One way to help grow more moose is habitat projects. We need to start including habitat enhancement within the Mat-Su Borough to reduce vehicle collisions. AMF helped Fish and Game and DNR in early March on 8 acres in Palmer.

    How many have you heard of the Moose Safety & Rebuilding Task Force? They just purchased a Tucker Snow Cat for our use. The plan is to use this Snow cat for deep snow mitigation programs.

    If you are interested in learning more about these programs and future projects you should come to our 100 Gun Benefit at the Wasilla Sports Complex April 21st.

  19. #19
    Forum Admin Brian M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty of the North View Post
    Good Grief, Brian:
    What better reason, or goal, do we have for predator control, than to “increase #s for hunters”?

    I would have to agree with some of the things you say, but then you seem to be talking both sides of the issue, and rationalizing. What do you recommend for improving the habitat in Unit 13, for example, other than limiting animals and hunters?

    Sierra Clubbers are against hunting. You can’t compromise with them. I wouldn’t join them at the Recycling Center or any other place.
    Smitty of the North
    I don't see increasing the #s for hunters as a justified reason to use state-run predator control. If we want to get together and go fill our legal limits of bears and wolves, I'll be right there with you - but that is not the role of government. For improving ungulate #s in unit 13, I would be fine with liberalized bag limits and perhaps allowing people to sell bear hides, but the state's role should be limited, except in cases of biological emergency. There is no emergency there, unless you can show me stats otherwise.

    As for Sierra Clubbers, you're probably right that most of them are anti-hunting, which is why I cited them. I was surprised, though, to find them at the Sportsman Show selling t-shirts that said "I Love Hunting" for $10 (along the lines of their "I love the Chugach" stickers.) That one caught me off-guard, but as another member here pointed out, they're not all against hunters. And the idea that you wouldn't recycle because you can't compromise with someone who does? Wow. Better not go to the movies, grocery store, or anywhere else for that matter. (Kidding, of course...just pointing out that just because a "greenie" does something doesn't mean it's not worth doing.)

    Hunting season is upon us...I'm getting excited!

    -Brian

  20. #20
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    Default I Have Helped

    At every legal opportunity I shoot bear, wolf, and coyote. This helps the deer, moose, goat and caibou during the calving season, for this is when the calves are most vulnerable and predators prey on them the most depleting the numbers. I'd shoot bobcat and lion if they were around.

    Not only to protect deer as such, but to protect human life too. There is a reason our ancestors killed off the wolf , the lion and the bear.

    I have planted fruit bearing trees and bushes for the deer to eat and find cover in. I have planted food plots to feed the deer and turkey in winter when they are stressed the hardest. I put out mineral blocks and feeders, not to hunt over, but to help the deer, turkey, rabbit, quail and pheasant survive the harsh winters.

    I have built ponds so the animals can find water during drought and to support thousands of fish, amiphibions and reptiles.

    I have built brush piles for rabbit, quail, and pheasant to find cover from predators and weather. I have planted nesting fields for quail, pheasant and turkey.

    I build bird houses for song birds to nest in. I have planted thousands of trees to help the ecosystem and for animals to find food and cover in.

    I have torn down miles of barbed wire fencing, so the deer and turkey can roam freely.

    I have picked up trash, cleaned up campsites and rivers.

    I am not one of those who just harvest game. I put back more than I take from the land. all hunters should.

    It bothers me, when people think they have bought the pass to kill by purchasing a permit. There is so much more to it.

    "I bought my permit, I have the right to kill." Bah! "I have the right to kill as many animals as my permit allows." Bull Crap!

    It discourages me to see bow hunters buy as many tags as they can afford to kill as many deer as they can. So many, they couldn't possibly eat them all. These hunters are stealing from my family and friends.

    It bothers me to see professional hunters jump from state to state, country to country, just to say I killed that, or to advertise so we will buy their product.

    Kill what you can eat, don't kill for the sake of killing or bragging rights at work or down at the local tavern.

    Do you really think we care how many animals you can possibly kill in one season? What good hunter couldn't? Good hunters show control and respect for the game. They take what they can eat. Not the limit.

    People who brag how many animals they kill and/or how big the animal they kill are hunters I don't respect. They have no respect for the game or the sport. The only thing their hunting for is the compliments and praise.

    "Oh looky how good of a hunter I am, I killed more deer than you, I killed a bigger moose than you."

    Hunting isn't about competition. It is an escape, a journey back to when our ancestors hunted to survive. A tradition. A god given right, to harvest what we need to survive, not just for the pleasure of killing. Hunting is not some basketball or football game. It demands respect and humility.

    I don't think God looks favorably on Boone and Crockett or the Safari Club International scores/records.

    "Sure come on into heaven, you shot a BC record book white tail. You are some great hunter. We want your type here."

    We hunters should be as much a conservationist as we are hunters.

    It takes all kinds I guess, but I steer clear of the competitive, bragging types, who harvest what others plant. They are takers and all they care about is themselves. I have hunted with them and will no more. They'll hunt your stand or piss in the woods around your stand, just so you won't come back to camp with anything and give them a better chance to show you up. they will post up on a tree down the trail from your stand to cut you off. i don't need'em.

    Good Hunting,

    KatzMO

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