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Thread: Speaking of NitPicking..

  1. #1
    Member Vince's Avatar
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    Default Speaking of NitPicking..

    To make this situation even more bizarre, there was an ignorant little diatribe by Richards‘ co-chair, Dave Lyon:
    “don't know mark, its a s if our request not to use our name or quotes falls on entirely deaf ears.really infuriating.how about this "DON'T USE OUR NAME. EVER, EVER, EVER!!!. DON'T ALIGN US WITH ANY GROUP HUNTERS CONSIDER ANTI. I DON'T CARE WHAT YOU CONSIDER YOURSELVES, IF HUNTERS CALL YOU ANTI ... YOU ARE.... USING AK BHA'S POSITION TO BOLSTER YOUR OWN IS CHEAP, AND MAKES US LESS EFFECTIVE AS A VOICE FROM THE HUNTING COMMUNITY."
    GET IT????”
    thanks for saying what i said dave..

    If any "aligning" happens here, its origin is AK BHA's publicly-stated position. If AK BHA doesn't like that, then perhaps it should stay out of the public arena.
    Just my 2-cents' worth, as I see it.
    Best wishes,
    Tom Meacham”
    +1 **** cant make this stuff up... and i JUST got this today.. and been saying it for a long time..




    Folks: Once it’s out there it’s out there. There is no such thing as a “confidential” Email sent to 15 strangers. And there sure as hell is no such thing as a “confidential” Compass piece published in the Anchorage Daily News!I am amazed that a person like Mark Richards, who can write such intelligent, coherent Compass pieces, is such a babe in the woods that he wants to control who quotes him---even favorably---because he doesn‘t want to be “associated” with the perceived “cause“ of the writer quoting the piece. That‘s being out of touch with reality!


    Nuff said.... http://www.wolfsongnews.org/news/Ala...ents_3433.html

    Mark maybe you can get him on that Copywrite stuff eh?
    "If you are on a continuous search to be offended, you will always find what you are looking for; even when it isn't there."

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    Member Vince's Avatar
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    Maybe it's just me being a nutbag... but i have been saying a long time that ANTI's of a feather...

    when anti groups want to be your friend YOUR DOING IT WRONG. you attract other antis.. DONT CARE if you do hunt..dont care if you do eat or agree with eating game... so did that cute AK defenders of wildlife gal I was introduede to.. ( BY AKBHA co/chair.. )



    sportsmans groups should support sportsmans postions... period.

    not antis...
    "If you are on a continuous search to be offended, you will always find what you are looking for; even when it isn't there."

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    Ouch !!

    To be verbally 'spanked' by Rudy W...... in the ADN,,, must of smarted.

    but, when you place yourself/org in the public arena, better have yer big boy pants on !!

    I got tears in my eyes................

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    Supporting Member iofthetaiga's Avatar
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    The OP strikes me as pretty bizarre, and frankly I have difficulty understanding what it's intended statement or purpose is, other than perhaps to be inciteful (?). I read it several times in an attempt to understand it... Then, I read through the URL link, and found the linked to opinion piece to be almost as strange as the OP... Had never heard of this "Wolf Song of Alaska" outfit before, and don't know what they're about, but the last two paragraphs of the gentleman's statement are interesting. I excerpted and quoted them below. Does this have something to do with the OP's reason for posting?

    "SFW/H---Sportsmen for Fish and Wildlife/Habitat---is a special interest group. It's one of the most radical of the hunting groups. They got the professionally-unqualified-but-ideologically-compliant Corey Rossi appointed to the Alaska Department of Fish and Game as Director of Wildlife Conservation by the half-term Governor Palin. This shadowy group is one of the prime movers in the efforts to legalize bear trapping, the snaring of bears and the selling of bear parts---which is guaranteed to destroy the bear populations. Disgraced State Legislators, Ralph Seekins and Scott Ogan are two of their front men in Alaska.
    So, it is for good reason that reasonable, moderate and sane hunters and trappers are afraid to speak out against this militant, outside-funded effort to take over wildlife management and basically wipe out Alaska’s remaining wildlife.

    It takes a certain amount of courage to speak out on anything in this culture. But to fear mere association with anyone who dares to quote one’s own words is, as one commentator said, lacking the courage of one‘s convictions. So, take heart: because Alaska’s wildlife will not survive if knowledgeable people don’t speak out…or if they try to backpedal on what they have already said.


    - Rudy Wittshirk"
    ...he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods & errors. ~Thomas Jefferson
    I would rather have a mind opened by wonder than one closed by belief. ~Gerry Spence
    The last thing Alaska needs is another bigot. ~member Catch It
    #Resist

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    Member Vince's Avatar
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    no bushes.. it dont.. keep trying though.. i'll pick you up at 11 for our little outing..

    Toodles
    "If you are on a continuous search to be offended, you will always find what you are looking for; even when it isn't there."

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    Supporting Member iofthetaiga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vince View Post
    no bushes.. it dont.. keep trying though.. i'll pick you up at 11 for our little outing..

    Toodles
    Are you drinking and typing Vincent?
    ...he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods & errors. ~Thomas Jefferson
    I would rather have a mind opened by wonder than one closed by belief. ~Gerry Spence
    The last thing Alaska needs is another bigot. ~member Catch It
    #Resist

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    Ruh ro raggy

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    Forum Admin Brian M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vince View Post
    sportsmans groups should support sportsmans postions... period.
    And where does one get a list of these "sportsmans positions", Vince? Perhaps you could supply me a list? I'm confused. I consider myself a sportsman - grew up hunting and fishing, have eaten little but wild fish and game my entire life, and spend as much time as possible in the field every year with a rifle, bow, or rod in hand. That being said, I disagree with you on some points and even believe that state-sponsored predator control isn't always the best option. So...I guess my positions aren't "sportsmans positions", even though I'm a sportsman.

    Anyhow, post a list of what my Vince-approved positions should be. Thanks.

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    Smile help is available

    Luckily there's a decent amount of support online for this sort of thing:
    http://www.angermanagementonline.com/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian M View Post
    And where does one get a list of these "sportsmans positions", Vince? Perhaps you could supply me a list? I'm confused. I consider myself a sportsman - grew up hunting and fishing, have eaten little but wild fish and game my entire life, and spend as much time as possible in the field every year with a rifle, bow, or rod in hand. That being said, I disagree with you on some points and even believe that state-sponsored predator control isn't always the best option. So...I guess my positions aren't "sportsmans positions", even though I'm a sportsman.

    Anyhow, post a list of what my Vince-approved positions should be. Thanks.
    Lol let's see you, along with the rest of us are reaping the benefits of the predator control in unit 13. If you want to play coy and say huh. I'm pretty sure you reaped the benefits of the caribou hunt in unit 13. Which that herd has rebounded according to the bios... It's funny how you boys decry predator control but hot **** you will go in after all the hard work is done to reap the benefits from such programs. If you guys don't mind backcountry whatever it's called associations with anti hunting organizations then you all need to reevaluate things. Be kind of like NRA kind of supporting the Brady campaign.

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    Forum Admin Brian M's Avatar
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    Hold on there, buddy. I didn't say I oppose all predator control measures - what I said is that I "believe state-sponsored predator control isn't always the best option." There is a big difference. As for me reaping the benefits of predator control in Unit 13, I suppose I can see where you might think that....but I've taken caribou in that unit long before there was wolf control. The control effort certainly doesn't hurt the caribou and moose numbers, but it's not necessarily a direct correlation between my hunt and the control effort.

    I think that in many cases that it would be better if hunters used the seasons made available to them to thin predators. I'll be in Unit 13 in April and Unit 16 in late May/early June hunting bears. I don't think that we need the state to do it for us in most cases. (Note: I did not say all cases, but most.)

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    Thewolfwatching
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    Geezzz Brian, gotta add that a man that spends that amount of time in the field must bring his laptop with him! Man you catch me every turn year round.. Oh, btw, I appreciate the effort.. ;-) god knows your fantastic at editing..

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian M View Post
    And where does one get a list of these "sportsmans positions", Vince? Perhaps you could supply me a list? I'm confused. I consider myself a sportsman - grew up hunting and fishing, have eaten little but wild fish and game my entire life, and spend as much time as possible in the field every year with a rifle, bow, or rod in hand. That being said, I disagree with you on some points and even believe that state-sponsored predator control isn't always the best option. So...I guess my positions aren't "sportsmans positions", even though I'm a sportsman.

    Anyhow, post a list of what my Vince-approved positions should be. Thanks.

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    Predator control in unit 13?? Uhh call me stupid but who has been conducting predator hunting in 13?? Some talk about it but, uhh, besides the normal trapping etc.. I have heard of nothing elevated.. Nothing different from past years and the standard.. sorry but educate me..if you will..

    Quote Originally Posted by 323 View Post
    Lol let's see you, along with the rest of us are reaping the benefits of the predator control in unit 13. If you want to play coy and say huh. I'm pretty sure you reaped the benefits of the caribou hunt in unit 13. Which that herd has rebounded according to the bios... It's funny how you boys decry predator control but hot **** you will go in after all the hard work is done to reap the benefits from such programs. If you guys don't mind backcountry whatever it's called associations with anti hunting organizations then you all need to reevaluate things. Be kind of like NRA kind of supporting the Brady campaign.

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    Quote Originally Posted by iofthetaiga View Post
    The OP strikes me as pretty bizarre, and frankly I have difficulty understanding what it's intended statement or purpose is, other than perhaps to be inciteful (?). I read it several times in an attempt to understand it... Then, I read through the URL link, and found the linked to opinion piece to be almost as strange as the OP... Had never heard of this "Wolf Song of Alaska" outfit before, and don't know what they're about, but the last two paragraphs of the gentleman's statement are interesting. I excerpted and quoted them below. Does this have something to do with the OP's reason for posting?

    "SFW/H---Sportsmen for Fish and Wildlife/Habitat---is a special interest group. It's one of the most radical of the hunting groups. They got the professionally-unqualified-but-ideologically-compliant Corey Rossi appointed to the Alaska Department of Fish and Game as Director of Wildlife Conservation by the half-term Governor Palin. This shadowy group is one of the prime movers in the efforts to legalize bear trapping, the snaring of bears and the selling of bear parts---which is guaranteed to destroy the bear populations. Disgraced State Legislators, Ralph Seekins and Scott Ogan are two of their front men in Alaska.
    So, it is for good reason that reasonable, moderate and sane hunters and trappers are afraid to speak out against this militant, outside-funded effort to take over wildlife management and basically wipe out Alaska’s remaining wildlife.

    It takes a certain amount of courage to speak out on anything in this culture. But to fear mere association with anyone who dares to quote one’s own words is, as one commentator said, lacking the courage of one‘s convictions. So, take heart: because Alaska’s wildlife will not survive if knowledgeable people don’t speak out…or if they try to backpedal on what they have already said.


    - Rudy Wittshirk"

    and another quote by the blogger Rudy is as follows:

    It takes a certain amount of courage to speak out on anything in this culture. But to fear mere association with anyone who dares to quote one’s own words is, as one commentator said, lacking the courage of one‘s convictions. So, take heart: because Alaska’s wildlife will not survive if knowledgeable people don’t speak out…or if they try to backpedal on what they have already said.

    This was Rudy again, railing at the AK Back Country Hunters & Anglers Association for trying to disassociate themselves from the likes of Rudy Wittshirk and Bill Sherwonit when they seem to agree. What's up with that?

    Is the foe of your foe REALLY your friend??? Hmmmm???? What HAVE they done but cause division and dissention? MODEREATE??? Not hardly....

    And now for the question... Who IS Rudy Wittshirk on this forum? ROFLMAO Not me!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thewolfwatching View Post
    Predator control in unit 13?? Uhh call me stupid but who has been conducting predator hunting in 13?? Some talk about it but, uhh, besides the normal trapping etc.. I have heard of nothing elevated.. Nothing different from past years and the standard.. sorry but educate me..if you will..
    The state has been conducting aerial wolf control permits in unit 13 for years. It has been approved for 2012 also http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/static/re...supplement.pdf . The most recent efforts have been going on since 2004, with a little break for a couple lawsuits, but it's been very successful at reducing wolves. Caribou and moose numbers are on the rebound in many parts of Unit 13.

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    Thanks AKDoug! Funny how some folks think they know it all but they are mis informed..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian M View Post
    And where does one get a list of these "sportsmans positions", Vince? Perhaps you could supply me a list? I'm confused. I consider myself a sportsman - grew up hunting and fishing, have eaten little but wild fish and game my entire life, and spend as much time as possible in the field every year with a rifle, bow, or rod in hand. That being said, I disagree with you on some points and even believe that state-sponsored predator control isn't always the best option. So...I guess my positions aren't "sportsmans positions", even though I'm a sportsman.

    Anyhow, post a list of what my Vince-approved positions should be. Thanks.
    HI Brian.. only got a sec on my way to aDoc apt.. ( and no bushes, was not drinking last night hun)

    when you don't agree with something you don’t support it...understandable.. you don’t support many positions made by Alaska residents every season.. you see, your postion from Eagle River has no bearing on my postion in Fairbanks, or the postion of folks in Ft Yukon.. becaseu you simply cannot know it.

    perhaps if you appeared and listened and eventually participated to an ENTIRE BOG meeting.. you will find there are 2 distinct conversations that persist at every meeting.. and this is occuring in nearly all regions.


    1, Community after community asking to reduce bears, IN particular grizzly/brownin their area... weather its pred-control or additional seasons and limits... why? THEY WANT THEIR MOOSE HUNTS. and we have to many bears in a lot of areas

    and

    2, anti-groups...IE:Alaska wildlife alliance, defenders of wild life, NPS, AKBHA, PETA, petitioning to have none of the above... wolf, bear.... you name it. Natural order? LOL people been part of it since we dropped out of the trees and picked up sticks and rocks.

    and 3. one side always goes home pissed.

    so.. HOW MANY bears have you killed? ( I know not many) school, fishing, kids,and a desire to be near home... got all that out of you already.. NOT FOR LACKOF DESIRE.. got that out of you also.. its okay i understand! There are times like Right now i would be out hunting but am under house arrest.

    unfortunately that is the position of most these folks posting positions on the subject.. have not killed a bear yet.. or got one once and want them left alone.. shoot some have NO desire to ever hunt a bear. thats FINE.. thats their CHOICE.

    so since you’re not able to hunt them.. and I am.. or guys like 323, bronco etc...who have the ability to take the time.. and go out and help some folks out... because HONESTLY... most folks still want a Moose or Caribou.. ( read your forum tons of folks STILL won’t eat bear) who are you to take a position against HOW I do it? politics and politicians aside.. because THATS what their argument is really about.. the WHO not the WHAT...

    when an equally large or LARGER group of people are for something regardless of the players... WHO ARE YOU to step on my rights to choose?

    as fellow sportsmen... you and I can disagree... on allocation issues all we want.. but, when I come to the BOF..and Say Brian Mason.. cant fish out of his boat like that anymore.. he has to USE A SPORTING ROD>... I think you and Iwould agree, I have overstepped my bounds, and stepped on your rights as a Comfish.. when a fly group writes props for NO spin or bait cast gear.. cause they don’t believe in it.. they stepped on our rights of choice.

    If I had a permit to harvest 20 bears and donate the nummy meat to folks.. WHAT DO YOU REALLLLLLY care, how I kill them for? to take a stand that my way is wrong when you do nothing??? WHY?? i do something under a permit and get to help those folks out...

    unfortunately... Alaska is 1/5 the size of the entire lower 48 and getting around it is expensive and it is riddled with communities you and 99.99999% of this crew will never see... And Mark lives in a secluded cabin out in themiddle of NO where, writes opinions, has become a rabid watch dog, that’s beenin the kennel too long. sportsmen’s positions Brian? how about, our choice to carry on? How about do somthing that SUPPORTS us getting out, and hunting, fishing, PROVIDING service and meat.. rather then NAY SAY all day.

    how about... the fact that many of these area issues ,like pred control happen in parts of this state you'll never go to.. ( mark certianly WONT) and have NO effect on YOU, mark, bushes, dux, earl, Dave, or ME... most these guys would rather fight about an administrator then help do anything.. I honestly don't think they care if the bear dies, they want to Vilify and cause hate and discontent, and prevent access to our rights and heritage.

    Brian... I have been before the board to DEFEND your rights to choose to many times... season, bag limits, methods and mean... there are several out there YOU have the choice to participate in or not... OR NOT.. because of myself, and a few others like me.

    like these guys are so fond of saying.. if you don't like what’s posted here.. don’t lament the position... TURN IT OFF. LOL.. well they forget that deals with life also. just because you don’t like the position I take in the field, just becauseit does NOT meet your CODE of standards, ethics, or desire to do things your way. Does not give you the right to prevent me from having mine..

    and when there are 100's of requests every year to the dept. for help.. 1000's of people affected.. ( that you will never meet, see, and rarely hear about)100's of miles away.. and there are only a few dedicated hunters to help in that area.. ( see strangerinastrangeland and his son).. What give you the right to say the Dept. cannot give them the tools to do what they do?

    like you Brian.. I am an Alaskan... and SIR, I take extreme offence to folks trying to step on my rights. Sportsmen’s groups should not attack each other because they have different policy of value... AKBHA does things the others don’tlike,, yet they roll their eyes at them and (edited) AKBHA should learn the same character.. (edited) or how about come up with ways to help you get out? how about HELP make our reg book easier to read... how about help come up with USEFUL ideas that make things better for all of us.

    I could give a crap if people trap bears, as long as they don’t waste them. we have more bears in AK then we can shake a stick at, and not enough hunters after them...YOU may not like it.. but as one sportsman to another, I would like to believe.. YOU would suport me making my choice..

    and

    Certianly, if there is a biological concern and allocation issues arrise, i would expect as a trapper any permits i had received to be cancled and a call for normal seasons and bag limits, so that when YOU wanted to come out and look for bears, you would still have a reasonable opportunity to do so.. because.. Sir. THATS the law of our land.

    BTW.. Snaring is an exceptible method of catching bears in Nebraska also ... and they don't even have any per'se

    Sportmens groups for hunting and fishing rights.. Should be for HUNTING and FISHING RIGHTS.. there is no middle ground you're for us or against us.. we all want to hunt moose, caribou, sheep, goats, and SOME of us want to hunt bears, wolf.. etc.. MANY would like to have 1 bear.. and A wolf..

    I agreed with Mark long ago.. in that in finding both sides we can make a ballance.. Anti Groups have no ballance it't their way or NO way at all. see---> AKBHA

    To make this situation even more bizarre, there was an ignorant little diatribe by Richards‘ co-chair, Dave Lyon:

    “don't know mark, its a s if our request not to use our name or quotes falls on entirely deaf ears.really infuriating.how about this "DON'T USE OUR NAME. EVER, EVER, EVER!!!. DON'T ALIGN US WITH ANY GROUP HUNTERS CONSIDER ANTI. I DON'T CARE WHAT YOU CONSIDER YOURSELVES,
    IF HUNTERS CALL YOU ANTI ... YOU ARE.... USING AK BHA'S POSITION TO BOLSTER YOUR OWN IS CHEAP, AND MAKES US LESS EFFECTIVE AS A VOICE FROM THE HUNTING COMMUNITY."

    GET IT????”
    again.. Thanks Dave.. i believe i said that the other week.


    oh... ( and bushes,,, you made my point with your own quote from that article.... Rudy and Mark and you.. all sound the SAME-O SAME-O)

    maybe your doing it wrong..

    Last edited by Michael Strahan; 02-10-2012 at 21:40. Reason: language
    "If you are on a continuous search to be offended, you will always find what you are looking for; even when it isn't there."

    meet on face book here

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    Member Vince's Avatar
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    One last thing on my way out... I think its fare to the folks of this forum to know.. that for the last 4 years.. all and i mean ALL of my efforts at the BOG, AC, Juneau, and ADFG depts...

    have been at my own expense...my own time, and shared efforts by others who think and feel as i do... ( okay.. no one Rally thinks like me)

    I dont write Props... as fund raisers for any org. nor have i taken any donations...

    "If you are on a continuous search to be offended, you will always find what you are looking for; even when it isn't there."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian M View Post
    Hold on there, buddy. I didn't say I oppose all predator control measures - what I said is that I "believe state-sponsored predator control isn't always the best option." There is a big difference. As for me reaping the benefits of predator control in Unit 13, I suppose I can see where you might think that....but I've taken caribou in that unit long before there was wolf control. The control effort certainly doesn't hurt the caribou and moose numbers, but it's not necessarily a direct correlation between my hunt and the control effort.

    I think that in many cases that it would be better if hunters used the seasons made available to them to thin predators. I'll be in Unit 13 in April and Unit 16 in late May/early June hunting bears. I don't think that we need the state to do it for us in most cases. (Note: I did not say all cases, but most.)
    the state is not doing any of the predator control in unit 16B it is left up to us hunters. Only thing the state did was make it an unlimited bag limit and you can run bait stations clear up to October 15 if I remember right and no meat salvage requiremnt on the predator control. I will not get into the whole bear snaring if you want to know about that refer to the trapping regs or call the Palmer fish and game office. I will say it again the bio out of Palmer has alot of great information and it would help you all to talk to him about the bears in unit 16B. I learned more about this issue in the 2 hour class we sat through to get certified.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vince View Post
    One last thing on my way out... I think its fare to the folks of this forum to know.. that for the last 4 years.. all and i mean ALL of my efforts at the BOG, AC, Juneau, and ADFG depts...

    have been at my own expense...my own time, and shared efforts by others who think and feel as i do... ( okay.. no one Rally thinks like me)

    I dont write Props... as fund raisers for any org. nor have i taken any donations...


    ok we will send you some cookies and candy for your contribution

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