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    Default Reciprocity Bill

    It seems the bill is worded such that all states would be excepting the carry laws of the visitors home state. In other words we Alaskans would be able to carry nation wide without a permit just like we do at home. Well the most vocal opponent to this, the guy spear heading stopping this so we would need a permit is our good Senator Marc Begich.
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    Yeah, I got that same email from GOA about the sudden NRA life member Senator Wonder Boy too and did a little creative editing to GOA's form letter before launching it just to show how much contempt I have for him.

    Never forget that before he became Senator, he was a member of Mikey Bloomberg's MAIG until called on the carpet for it. He also said he was pro-gun out one side of his mouth while voting to confirm The Wise Latina and Kagen to SCOTUS in spite of objections to their confirmations on other issues besides guns. He's a snake that has voted to stab us in the back every chance he's gotten.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ADfields View Post
    It seems the bill is worded such that all states would be excepting the carry laws of the visitors home state. In other words we Alaskans would be able to carry nation wide without a permit just like we do at home. Well the most vocal opponent to this, the guy spear heading stopping this so we would need a permit is our good Senator Marc Begich.
    Am I missing something?

    Unless I'm misunderstanding you, I think you are mistaken. HR 822 National Right to Carry Reciprocity Act of 2011 would give Alaskans (all US citizens) who have a concealed carry permit, the right to carry concealed in any state that allows concealed carry. As it stands now we don't have reciprocity with all states who allow CC, and if we want to carry in states we have reciprocity with, we need to get a CCW Permit. Begich co-sponsered H.R. 197: National Right-to-Carry Reciprocity Act of 2009 which died. We'll have to see what he does with this one.
    http://alaskareport.com/news19/x6198...ons_begich.htm

    Just because we can carry here without the permit, does not mean we'd be able to carry in any other state without one. Reciprocity is one good reason to get an Alaskan CCW permit even though we don't need one.

    Here is a brief summary:

    http://www.gop.gov/bill/112/1/hr822

    "The bill would allow individuals with valid state-issued concealed firearm permits or licenses to carry a concealed firearm in any other state that also issues concealed firearm permits or licenses, or in any other state that does not generally prohibit the carrying of concealed firearms."
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    Is there any UT CCW instructors up here. If so that is the way to go by far, you do not have to be a res of the state and it is not as expensive as it is to get the AK ccw. UT has one of the highest reciprocity of states and is one of the easies to get if there is an instructor up here. I let my instructor card laps a couple years ago.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Snyd View Post
    Am I missing something?

    Unless I'm misunderstanding you, I think you are mistaken. HR 822 National Right to Carry Reciprocity Act of 2011 would give Alaskans (all US citizens) who have a concealed carry permit, the right to carry concealed in any state that allows concealed carry. As it stands now we don't have reciprocity with all states who allow CC, and if we want to carry in states we have reciprocity with, we need to get a CCW Permit. Begich co-sponsered H.R. 197: National Right-to-Carry Reciprocity Act of 2009 which died. We'll have to see what he does with this one.
    http://alaskareport.com/news19/x6198...ons_begich.htm

    Just because we can carry here without the permit, does not mean we'd be able to carry in any other state without one. Reciprocity is one good reason to get an Alaskan CCW permit even though we don't need one.

    Here is a brief summary:

    http://www.gop.gov/bill/112/1/hr822

    "The bill would allow individuals with valid state-issued concealed firearm permits or licenses to carry a concealed firearm in any other state that also issues concealed firearm permits or licenses, or in any other state that does not generally prohibit the carrying of concealed firearms."

    That is correct. It would NOT allow just any Alaskan to carry concealed in any other state unless we had an Alaskan concealed carry permit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by anchskier View Post
    That is correct. It would NOT allow just any Alaskan to carry concealed in any other state unless we had an Alaskan concealed carry permit.
    Which we can't do now anyway unless we have the CCW and go to states we currently have reciprocity with. So, we don't stand to lose anything if this passes. We would gain the right to carry in all states except Illinois which doesn't allow any CCW.

    I read some blog where they were saying that Begich should require in this bill that we should be able to carry without a CCW in other states. That he's "selling down the river" if he doesn't. I didn't vote for Begich but I think that's a stretch. We can't carry without a permit now even in the state we have reciprocity with.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snyd View Post
    Which we can't do now anyway unless we have the CCW and go to states we currently have reciprocity with. So, we don't stand to lose anything if this passes. We would gain the right to carry in all states except Illinois which doesn't allow any CCW.

    I read some blog where they were saying that Begich should require in this bill that we should be able to carry without a CCW in other states. That he's "selling down the river" if he doesn't. I didn't vote for Begich but I think that's a stretch. We can't carry without a permit now even in the state we have reciprocity with.
    Yep, i'm right there with you. We would be gaining if this bill passed by essentially gaining reciprocity in all 49 other states instead of just the ones we have reciprocity with currently.

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    `(b) The possession or carrying of a concealed handgun in a State under this section shall be subject to the same conditions and limitations, except as to eligibility to possess or carry, imposed by or under Federal or State law or the law of a political subdivision of a State, that apply to the possession or carrying of a concealed handgun by residents of the State or political subdivision who are licensed by the State or political subdivision to do so, or not prohibited by the State from doing so.
     
    Itís complicated and Iím no attorney but evidently the attorneys at GOA as well as those working for the good senator believe this would mean Alaskans need no permit outside at least sometimes because we are not prohibited from carrying at home without a permit. To my reading at the least this means I could conceal in Arizona (there is a residency requirement for no permit concealment there) with only my Alaska ID because AZ doesnít prohibit Arizonans from no permit carry and Alaska doesnít prohibit anyone that can otherwise have the gun. But then it could also mean far more than that too depending on how the case law gets set down the road . . . like our texting/driving law that doesnít ban texting when driving now because of the case law.

    Iím no lawyer but those at GOA havenít steered me wrong yet and I believe what they are saying. Iíd very much like to leave it just as it is so I donít need a permit when I go to AZ . . . the state I most often go to. Why would the good senator want to change it if GOAís lawyers are wrong guys?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ADfields View Post
    `(b) The possession or carrying of a concealed handgun in a State under this section shall be subject to the same conditions and limitations, except as to eligibility to possess or carry, imposed by or under Federal or State law or the law of a political subdivision of a State, that apply to the possession or carrying of a concealed handgun by residents of the State or political subdivision who are licensed by the State or political subdivision to do so, or not prohibited by the State from doing so.
     
    Itís complicated and Iím no attorney but evidently the attorneys at GOA as well as those working for the good senator believe this would mean Alaskans need no permit outside at least sometimes because we are not prohibited from carrying at home without a permit. To my reading at the least this means I could conceal in Arizona (there is a residency requirement for no permit concealment there) with only my Alaska ID because AZ doesnít prohibit Arizonans from no permit carry and Alaska doesnít prohibit anyone that can otherwise have the gun. But then it could also mean far more than that too depending on how the case law gets set down the road . . . like our texting/driving law that doesnít ban texting when driving now because of the case law.

    Iím no lawyer but those at GOA havenít steered me wrong yet and I believe what they are saying. Iíd very much like to leave it just as it is so I donít need a permit when I go to AZ . . . the state I most often go to. Why would the good senator want to change it if GOAís lawyers are wrong guys?
    That is section "b", but you have to get past section "a" first...

    "Ď(a) Notwithstanding any provision of the law of any State or political subdivision thereof (except as provided in subsection (b)), a person who is not prohibited by Federal law from possessing, transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm, and who is carrying a valid identification document containing a photograph of the person, and a valid license or permit which is issued pursuant to the law of a State and which permits the person to carry a concealed firearm, may possess or carry a concealed handgun (other than a machinegun or destructive device) that has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce, in any State, other than the State of residence of the person, that--

    Ď(1) has a statute that allows residents of the State to obtain licenses or permits to carry concealed firearms; or


    Ď(2) does not prohibit the carrying of concealed firearms by residents of the State for lawful purposes.

    "
    Bold added by me for emphasis.

    You could be right, but here is what I am seeing:

    I don't see what ID the State of Alaska issues that you could use in this instance that specifically permits concealed carry other than the specific concealed carry. Our driver's license or state issued ID does not by default permit us to carry concealed as there are plenty of people who don't have driver's licenses who are elegible to carry up here. There are also plenty of people who have driver's lincenses or state issued ID that are not elegible to carry concealed for one reason or another.

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    I get past section A with ease.
    "Ď(a) Notwithstanding any provision of the law of any State or political subdivision thereof (except as provided in subsection (b)),

    So, all the rest of ďaĒ that I didnít copy is meaningless if ďbĒ applies and ďbď does apply so . . . you see it yet?
    Never think ya know more about legal wording than the lawyers do.
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    Use the website and it shows where you can carry....http://www.usacarry.com/concealed_ca...city_maps.html
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    Quote Originally Posted by sweepint View Post
    Is there any UT CCW instructors up here. If so that is the way to go by far, you do not have to be a res of the state and it is not as expensive as it is to get the AK ccw. UT has one of the highest reciprocity of states and is one of the easies to get if there is an instructor up here. I let my instructor card laps a couple years ago.
    As of Jan 1 2012, Utah requires a copy of your states current CCW before they will renew or give a CCW. You don't need this if your state doesn't offer a CCW. I just got my renewal and that is what the paper says. I will be calling them on monday to find out since Alaska has a optional permit if we need to comply with this new law.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Snyd View Post
    Which we can't do now anyway unless we have the CCW and go to states we currently have reciprocity with. So, we don't stand to lose anything if this passes. We would gain the right to carry in all states except Illinois which doesn't allow any CCW.

    I read some blog where they were saying that Begich should require in this bill that we should be able to carry without a CCW in other states. That he's "selling down the river" if he doesn't. I didn't vote for Begich but I think that's a stretch. We can't carry without a permit now even in the state we have reciprocity with.

    I believe that's true. This federal bill specifically is to allow CCW holders in any state to CCW in any other state. An individual resident from Alaska or Washington or any other state would need a CCW permit to take advantage of this bill, should it pass. I don't know anything about your senator....maybe he's confused.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MCJonas View Post
    I believe that's true. This federal bill specifically is to allow CCW holders in any state to CCW in any other state. An individual resident from Alaska or Washington or any other state would need a CCW permit to take advantage of this bill, should it pass. I don't know anything about your senator....maybe he's confused.
    Exactly what I thought also when I read the bill months ago, however, after getting the email from GOA I read it more slowly. Yea it says what you think but you are missing the exceptions, hard to follow legal ease but itís there.

    Iíve learned not to sell GOA short, over and over they have been dead on when even NRA discounted their view . . . as a couple ensamples I knew about ĎFast and Furiousí and the anti-gun wording in the Mexican treaty about two years ago thanks to GOA and NRA said they were both nothing to worry about when I emailed them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MCJonas View Post
    I believe that's true. This federal bill specifically is to allow CCW holders in any state to CCW in any other state. An individual resident from Alaska or Washington or any other state would need a CCW permit to take advantage of this bill, should it pass. I don't know anything about your senator....maybe he's confused.
    Who's confused is the blogger who posted this article http://capwiz.com/gunowners/issues/a...ertid=60979461

    Basically he says that since Begich is not going to force congress to modify the bill to allow us Alaskans to cc in every state WITHOUT having to have a ccw permit, that he is "stripping" us of the right that we currently have in Alaska... which is that we do not need a permit to carry. I think the blogger is out to lunch. Now, I don't care for Begich, I did'nt vote for him. But, as it stands now, we don't have reciprocity with Washington. I have family in the Seattle area, I would like to be able to carry there while visiting. This bill would allow that if I get me ccw. I've been planning on getting my Alaska permit for the purpose of reciprocity. My wife has hers, she took Joe Navas (local longtime NRA Instructor) womens handgun class a few years ago and he sent her out of there with the paperwork and specific instructions to march down to the troopers and give em a check for 95 bucks and get here permit! So she did.

    Would I like to be able to carry in 48 other states without a permit? Sure, but it won't happen.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snyd View Post
    Who's confused is the blogger who posted this article http://capwiz.com/gunowners/issues/a...ertid=60979461

    Basically he says that since Begich is not going to force congress to modify the bill to allow us Alaskans to cc in every state WITHOUT having to have a ccw permit, that he is "stripping" us of the right that we currently have in Alaska... which is that we do not need a permit to carry. I think the blogger is out to lunch. Now, I don't care for Begich, I did'nt vote for him. But, as it stands now, we don't have reciprocity with Washington. I have family in the Seattle area, I would like to be able to carry there while visiting. This bill would allow that if I get me ccw. I've been planning on getting my Alaska permit for the purpose of reciprocity. My wife has hers, she took Joe Navas (local longtime NRA Instructor) womens handgun class a few years ago and he sent her out of there with the paperwork and specific instructions to march down to the troopers and give em a check for 95 bucks and get here permit! So she did.

    Would I like to be able to carry in 48 other states without a permit? Sure, but it won't happen.
    I agree, that guy has no clue what he is typing about . . . somebody should super glue his laptop shut. I donít like our fine senator (ether of them acutely) but I will say Marc has been far better than I thought he would be. He has fought for Alaska in many things where I figured he would just sell out, yes he did sell out on things like health care but stands on some things. I believe he cares about this state and does what he thinks Alaska needs . . . but his idea and my idea of what Alaska needs are usually very different. I donít think Marc is selling us down the river here (it would be great to get any form of this bill made into law) I just donít see his angle. I suspect itís due to some back hallway horse trading or something we will never know the hole story of and I hope he is getting better than he gives.

    Also agree you wonít get to pack in most other states without a permit (I think there are some that copied us and you can pack in those now) anytime soon. Moreover, I donít think you will be packing in Washington even with an Alaska CCW anytime soon . . . because this bill wont ever get past both Congress and Obama. Then all those Seattle liberals will see to it that Washington State doesnít help you out any ether, maybe youíd have better luck gettin the family to move to a state that has reciprocity? Maybe a wormer state so you can get in some winter sun too.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ADfields View Post
    I agree, that guy has no clue what he is typing about . . . somebody should super glue his laptop shut. I donít like our fine senator (ether of them acutely) but I will say Marc has been far better than I thought he would be. He has fought for Alaska in many things where I figured he would just sell out, yes he did sell out on things like health care but stands on some things. I believe he cares about this state and does what he thinks Alaska needs . . . but his idea and my idea of what Alaska needs are usually very different. I donít think Marc is selling us down the river here (it would be great to get any form of this bill made into law) I just donít see his angle. I suspect itís due to some back hallway horse trading or something we will never know the hole story of and I hope he is getting better than he gives.

    Also agree you wonít get to pack in most other states without a permit (I think there are some that copied us and you can pack in those now) anytime soon. Moreover, I donít think you will be packing in Washington even with an Alaska CCW anytime soon . . . because this bill wont ever get past both Congress and Obama. Then all those Seattle liberals will see to it that Washington State doesnít help you out any ether, maybe youíd have better luck gettin the family to move to a state that has reciprocity? Maybe a wormer state so you can get in some winter sun too.
    Appreciate and agree with most of your sentiment Andy, but I'm admittedly a bit out of the loop as far as what the situation in WA is these days. I'm curious why you're so pessimistic about potential reciprocity with WA? Some 18 years ago or so, I had an Oregon CCW permit, and back then we had complete reciprocity with WA. I used to attend lots of good shows in WA, and always carried there. I lived there for a spell too. Always seemed to be a pretty gun friendly state. Has something changed dramatically since then?
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    iofthetaiga. We (Alaska) currently don't have reciprocity with WA or Oregon. But, it is my understanding that a non-resident of WA can apply for and get a cc permit for that state. Here's a link with states we currently have reciprocity with.

    http://dps.alaska.gov/statewide/perm...ciprocity.aspx
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snyd View Post
    iofthetaiga. We (Alaska) currently don't have reciprocity with WA or Oregon. But, it is my understanding that a non-resident of WA can apply for and get a cc permit for that state. Here's a link with states we currently have reciprocity with.

    http://dps.alaska.gov/statewide/perm...ciprocity.aspx
    Yeah, I understand we don't currently have it with WA. I was just curious why Andy was so sure it would never happen. By my (past) experience, WA is a pretty user friendly state. As I said, I have not been keeping up on the current politics, and am curious what the hang up is between WA and AK right now.
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    Sorry.. I misunderstood.
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