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Thread: I love CATM instructors

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    Default I love CATM instructors

    So I had to qualify with the M4 yesterday and I must say the best part of the class was not shooting , but the saftey class part prior to the range time. Don't get me wrong I love a good M4 / M16 / or Ar15, thats why I bought one to hunt with. Why was that the fun part of my day you ask...

    Picture if you can 16 guys who all claim to be experts with firearms, all are self proclaimed marksmen, dead eye badxxx hunters. while they were showing them how dissasemble and check for broke and worn parts you come to 2 key components. The buffer and buffer spring. see where this is going yet??

    to check the buffer batteries he told us to pick it up and shake it till the end lit up....i sat mine down and we exchanged the look that said wow only one of em knows that won't work. After that it was on to the buffer spring. Now to check the spring he said ok pick it up and hold it to your ear...you should flex it and while flexing it should sound like rice krispies.. you know snap crackle and pop right..of course everyone say oh ya they here it...I set mine down and am glad im in the back of the room to watch the comedy.
    I forgot how funny some of those were to watch and just had to share.

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    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    Best of the best of the best no doubt
    Now left only to be a turd in the forrest and the circle will be complete.Use me as I have used you

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    Quote Originally Posted by Amigo Will View Post
    Best of the best of the best no doubt
    Im sure they spent hours learning how to shoot at home on their xbox.

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    I wonder if they still have the green silhouette target that I put up at 400 meters and had the entire Air Guard (176th SFS) S.P. unit blaze away at with one full magazine per troop. 45 people, who had just qualified, blazed away (1350 rounds expended) and there were about 15-20 holes in the target, to include a couple of rock strikes.
    Once I told them they could use burst mode if they wanted to ,,, all bets were off....... It looked like an Iraqi wedding....


    But I was in three branches, Navy, Army and Air Force, from the mid 70s until comrade 0 was took office. Plus I was a cop for 20 years... You would be amazed at the idiotic things you see during weapons quals. Grenade quals was always super scarey.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Float Pilot View Post
    But I was in three branches, Navy, Army and Air Force, from the mid 70s until comrade 0 was took office. Plus I was a cop for 20 years... You would be amazed at the idiotic things you see during weapons quals. Grenade quals was always super scarey.
    Three services... very interesting as well as uncommon too. I started in 1980 in the AD USMC, then to the US ARNG, then they loaned me to the Navy for a while, then back to the NG, then to the AD USAF as a flight nurse, and now I'm AD Army. 3 years and it"ll be time to hang it up. Over the years I've noticed that it is comforting to remind some people that the pointy end goes toward the target and the dull end goes toward me, don't mess it up. Yeah, it's a bit sarcastic but I bet it caused some folks to think...sometimes not a bad thing.

    MyTime

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    You sound like somebody I met a few times.
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    When I went to Combat Skills training, I lost count of how many times I saw muzzles in the dirt or gravel. Then you get to see the look of horror on their face when you tell them that if anything gets stuck in that barrel and they try to fire, they have just turned thier weapon into a shoulder mounted grenade. I must point out by the way that it was usually officers who were the main culprit. Somebody should stop giving them rifles and make them stick with thier M9. < Heavy Sarcasm intended
    Some people call it sky busting... I call it optimism
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    So, what exactly is your sarcasm directed at? Are you saying that officers should be limited to the M9, or was that the sarcastic part and your point is, perhaps, USAF officers should get more/better training with a rifle to avoid jamming muzzles in the dirt?

    And, oh by the way, I've seen plenty of airmen do a lot of stupid stuff with their weapons.
    Two men say they're Jesus, one of them must be wrong...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drano View Post
    So, what exactly is your sarcasm directed at? Are you saying that officers should be limited to the M9, or was that the sarcastic part and your point is, perhaps, USAF officers should get more/better training with a rifle to avoid jamming muzzles in the dirt?

    And, oh by the way, I've seen plenty of airmen do a lot of stupid stuff with their weapons.
    Yea, I thought that was pretty offensive too. Since 1980 I've spent 12+ years enlisted and 13 years commissioned and I'm still active duty. I have more time safely carrying and using firearms than most active duty personnel, both commissioned and enlisted, have out of diapers. I've served with active duty, guard, and reserve Army, Navy, Air Force, Marine Corp, and Coast Guard personnel, officer and enlisted, and I can say across the spectrum that those servicemen/women that do not routinely carry/use weapons make mistakes that the gun-toting/experienced people learn not to do. I'm guessing that duckslayer56 is probably a pretty good person but I'm also guessing that he would be one rank lower if his commander reads his post (public disrespect of senior personnel). Maybe he can teach his skills to others and be an asset to lesser skilled personnel, officer and enlisted instead of making blanket statements degrading others.
    MyTime

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    I don't know, I have seen plenty over the last decade considering about 1/2 of it has been spent in theater. I have seen a full bird colonel leave his loaded M9 sitting next to an MWR computer when he headed back to his room for the night. Saw a Lt Col rack the slide drop the mag and discharge one into the clearing barrel. Been flagged hundreds of time by members of all ranks and found a PVT's M4 and 30 round mag leaning against the wall of an outhouse. My personal favorite though was a Air Force CPT, she managed to load 1/2 an M9 mag with the flat sides forward.

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    I have seen noodle-heads in three branches both O and E.
    Some because they do not know and better and some because they think they know everything.
    They are a basic cross section of the general public.
    And plenty noodle-headed cops , Feds, State and Muni,, as well. Which is saying something since the entry requirements are much more stringent compared to the military.

    Humans are basically a pretty screwed up species. It is amazing that we have not yet completed self-extinction.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MyTime View Post
    Yea, I thought that was pretty offensive too. Since 1980 I've spent 12+ years enlisted and 13 years commissioned and I'm still active duty. I have more time safely carrying and using firearms than most active duty personnel, both commissioned and enlisted, have out of diapers. I've served with active duty, guard, and reserve Army, Navy, Air Force, Marine Corp, and Coast Guard personnel, officer and enlisted, and I can say across the spectrum that those servicemen/women that do not routinely carry/use weapons make mistakes that the gun-toting/experienced people learn not to do. I'm guessing that duckslayer56 is probably a pretty good person but I'm also guessing that he would be one rank lower if his commander reads his post (public disrespect of senior personnel). Maybe he can teach his skills to others and be an asset to lesser skilled personnel, officer and enlisted instead of making blanket statements degrading others.
    Sooo, it's OK for you to be sarcastic, but no one else is allowed to say something which can "cause some folks to think"?? Yup, you're definitely an officer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frostbitten View Post
    Sooo, it's OK for you to be sarcastic, but no one else is allowed to say something which can "cause some folks to think"?? Yup, you're definitely an officer.
    I was not being sarcastic. If this man has a skill level above some other people, and I would guess he does, if he taught them then there might, just might, be a safer environment for all. A lot of military job fields do not routinely carry and use firearms so they haven't had the experience and guidance from people that have more experience. As for my comment about disrespect, that was not sarcastic either. I would hope he learns to be more cautious with his comments, for his self-protection because, despite what you may believe, I think he probably is a pretty good person and does not need to get busted. And am I an officer? Sure I am. I'm proud of my service, both enlisted and commissioned. Compared to my peers I spend more time and effort trying to recognize my people, teach them, provide educational opportunities, get primo next assignments, and set them up for success than most O's out there. Yes, I am an officer. Despite what you may believe, I haven't forgotten where I came from and I'm not a bad guy. Sorry you got such a bad impression.
    MyTime

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    I believe you should say Mustang Officer. (prior enlisted for you non-mil types)
    And an older one at that... so as not to be confused with the frat boys and ring knockers.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MyTime View Post
    I was not being sarcastic. If this man has a skill level above some other people, and I would guess he does, if he taught them then there might, just might, be a safer environment for all. A lot of military job fields do not routinely carry and use firearms so they haven't had the experience and guidance from people that have more experience. As for my comment about disrespect, that was not sarcastic either. I would hope he learns to be more cautious with his comments, for his self-protection because, despite what you may believe, I think he probably is a pretty good person and does not need to get busted. And am I an officer? Sure I am. I'm proud of my service, both enlisted and commissioned. Compared to my peers I spend more time and effort trying to recognize my people, teach them, provide educational opportunities, get primo next assignments, and set them up for success than most O's out there. Yes, I am an officer. Despite what you may believe, I haven't forgotten where I came from and I'm not a bad guy. Sorry you got such a bad impression.
    Your exact words were "Yeah, it's a bit sarcastic but I bet it caused some folks to think...sometimes not a bad thing." If he observed mostly officers making the mistake, then his statement is a matter of fact, not a matter of disrespect. It's OK for enlisted folks to tell officers they're wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MyTime View Post
    Yea, I thought that was pretty offensive too. Since 1980 I've spent 12+ years enlisted and 13 years commissioned and I'm still active duty. I have more time safely carrying and using firearms than most active duty personnel, both commissioned and enlisted, have out of diapers. I've served with active duty, guard, and reserve Army, Navy, Air Force, Marine Corp, and Coast Guard personnel, officer and enlisted, and I can say across the spectrum that those servicemen/women that do not routinely carry/use weapons make mistakes that the gun-toting/experienced people learn not to do. I'm guessing that duckslayer56 is probably a pretty good person but I'm also guessing that he would be one rank lower if his commander reads his post (public disrespect of senior personnel). Maybe he can teach his skills to others and be an asset to lesser skilled personnel, officer and enlisted instead of making blanket statements degrading others.

    Public disrespect of senior personnel ????........... Really, Want stuff done you go to the SNCO's and stuff happens......

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    Love watching people get tackled at grenade range

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    Quote Originally Posted by FishKing View Post
    ... Want stuff done you go to the SNCO's and stuff happens......
    Agreed FishKing. It's always been that way. I hope that never changes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frostbitten View Post
    Your exact words were "Yeah, it's a bit sarcastic but I bet it caused some folks to think...sometimes not a bad thing." If he observed mostly officers making the mistake, then his statement is a matter of fact, not a matter of disrespect. It's OK for enlisted folks to tell officers they're wrong.
    Frostbitten, I used to train active duty people with firearms. When I made that comment it was in a group setting, not singling anyone out, and it was said to get them to laugh so it would better imprint as a memory...and it worked as proved by AARs. They thought it was funny, never a complaint about it...they remembered it. Nobody was ever offended by that statement in years of training folks. And you are correct about on the spot corrections; they can and should be made professionally and rank should never be an issue. People screw up, ranks don't. Inexperienced people screw more than experienced people.

    Quote Originally Posted by Float Pilot View Post
    I believe you should say Mustang Officer. (prior enlisted for you non-mil types)
    And an older one at that... so as not to be confused with the frat boys and ring knockers.
    Float Plot, The term Mustanger or Mustang Officer is not as commonly used today as in years past. A a lot of younger don't know what it stands for. I thank you for mentioning it.

    So, getting back to the OP, firearm instructors need to maintain their sense of humor and I enjoyed the read, especially the part about the buffer batteries.
    MyTime

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    Member duckslayer56's Avatar
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    I am sorry if my comment offended anybody. My statement was meant more as a ribbing than anything. It was meant in a humorous matter that I guess didn't translate very well in type. I thought the disclaimer (meant in a sarcastic matter) would let everybody know that I was not serious in my comment that officers should only be allowed to carry the M9. Again, I am sorry if my comment offended anybody.
    Some people call it sky busting... I call it optimism
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    Float Plot, The term Mustanger or Mustang Officer is not as commonly used today as in years past. A a lot of younger don't know what it stands for. I thank you for mentioning it.
    In some branches there has been an effort to kill the old term of endearment for some time. Even back in the early 1980s the Navy OCS instructors at Newport made quite a presentation regarding the Navy's desire to have prior Petty Officers keep that fact a secret from the enlisted folks. It was the same week that they told us the the enlisted men (unwashed masses) were only there to further our new careers.
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