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Thread: Bone headed feds ground Yukon Quest Pilots

  1. #1
    Member Float Pilot's Avatar
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    Default Bone headed feds ground Yukon Quest Pilots

    http://www.adn.com/2012/02/07/2305564/8questplanes.html

    The rules prohibit private pilots from accepting cost deferments such as fuel, accommodations and food. According to the agency's regulations, allowing private pilots to accept compensation for costs is commercial activity, and commercial aviation is heavily regulated.
    Heaven forbid somebody might get a warm bowl of soup.....
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    Member sayak's Avatar
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    Not surprising. I expect such behavior from federal bureaucrats being paid with OUR tax money to over-regulate us.

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    Only the Feds could screw up a pilot wanting to volunteer some flying time.

    Yet, they turned around and used the C.A.P. pilots and planes to carry a bunch of food and supplies to villages on a few occasions , which took money away from the actual Part 135 carriers who needed that cargo to pay bills themselves.
    Being a capitalist, anti-socialist and a constitutionalists, it was somethng I refused to take part in...
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    Once again believably unbelievable. Congress had it right last week but got it wrong this week, when further funding was approved.
    "96% of all Internet Quotes are suspect and the remaining 4% are fiction."
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    The rules are clear. Compensation is not permitted. I'm surprised that anyone's surprised.

    com·pen·sa·tion (kmpn-sshn)
    n.
    1. The act of compensating or the state of being compensated.
    2. Something, such as money, given or received as payment or reparation, as for a service or loss.

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    Member sayak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Pid View Post
    The rules are clear. Compensation is not permitted. I'm surprised that anyone's surprised.
    Because it violates the standards by which Alaskans have always interacted with each other (open cabin, open table, willing to help, etc.). I'm surprised you had to be reminded.

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    Semantics. It would be simple to restructure the appreciation for the volunteers so that it doesn't fit the definition of compensation, which EVERY private pilot knows is prohibited.

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    Member sayak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Pid View Post
    Semantics. It would be simple to restructure the appreciation for the volunteers so that it doesn't fit the definition of compensation, which EVERY private pilot knows is prohibited.
    Perhaps, but bureaucrats probably wouldn't know the difference anyway.

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    Stretching it to include a meal or a semi-warm tent is simply ridiculous.
    If I load 500 pounds of dog food, fly it out to a check-point (probably manned by park Service people a.k.a. my/our employees)
    then unload the food, then volunteer to haul out trash..............my receiving a bowl of stew and being pointed to a warm corner for my sleeping bag is fraken far from compensation.

    And what happens when I as a commercial pilot, volunteer to do it for nothing other than a hand-shake ???
    I'm I now a private pilot, or is my odd desire for a hand-shake some sort of compensation....
    What about a hug from Miss Alaska and a couple old MRE's...

    Maybe a five-year Federal study should be initiated...
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    There is nothing to prohibit you from flying on up and volunteering your time and plane on your own nickel. As to the concept of the volunteers receiving other compensation, the article says they're working on it in the model of the Iditarod Air Force, which has FAA approval for volunteer supprt. So again, the only surprise here is that anyone's surprised.

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    Member sayak's Avatar
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    Pid said it so he must be right...

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    Actually it said:
    Across the years, the FAA has offered exemptions to the Iditarod, recently allowing a three-year extension in 2010.

    So the Iditarod Air Force does not have carte blanche on a permanent basis. Just a temporary lease on life , subject to the whims of the feds.
    Do not mistake my disdain for their ill timed actions for surprise.

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    need something to do with your excess tinfoil guys? save it for your windows this summer. geesh.

    I realize that perhaps some of you have never worked in government (NOTHING wrong with that), but as someone who once did, I can say that writing rules to accomodate situations like this is more difficult than you might think...and trying to fix it can often make things worse.

    The only thing that government is worse at than finding solutions, is fixing problems within its solutions. Not always true but often.

    The law of unintended consequences rears its head when least expected.


    If you want to work with the agency to eliminate such problems, then please do so...plenty of opportunities exist to provide constructive feedback. Don't be surprised if it gives you a headache trying to enact change, but the logical conclusion is NOT that "this sort of thing shouldn't happen" the logical conclusion is that doodoo happens...

    Sitting around on a forum and griping about petty problems within the government is sort of like masterbation, feels good at first but in the end you're just effing yourself.

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    Member sayak's Avatar
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    Hah! It's unAmerican to NOT complain about klutzy and overbearing bureaucracy. We're all allowed our own opinions too BTW, even if we don't all agree.
    Probably time to bypass the channels and let Uncle Don be his best crusty old self.

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    I worked for the Feds, the State, and a few municipalities between 1977 and 2008.
    But I was never able to embrace mediocrity, much less become its apologist.
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    I know nothing about plane regulations but my 2 cents anyways:

    AMEN ---> "Hah! It's unAmerican to NOT complain about klutzy and overbearing bureaucracy. We're all allowed our own opinions too BTW, even if we don't all agree.
    Probably time to bypass the channels and let Uncle Don be his best crusty old self."

    AND AMEN AGAIN--->"I worked for the Feds, the State, and a few municipalities between 1977 and 2008.
    But I was never able to embrace mediocrity, much less become its apologist."
    “There's a humorous side to every situation. The challenge is to find it.”
    George Carlin

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Float Pilot View Post
    Actually it said:

    So the Iditarod Air Force does not have carte blanche on a permanent basis. Just a temporary lease on life , subject to the whims of the feds.
    Do not mistake my disdain for their ill timed actions for surprise.

    Not to mention the exceptions and backdoor agreements the DOT, FAA and Iditarod Commitee have made with the use of the Willow Airport.....
    "96% of all Internet Quotes are suspect and the remaining 4% are fiction."
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    I believe what started iaf's problems was in fact a commercial air carrier. Likely the same here. What should the FAA do when a commercial operator complains that the volunteers are (breaking published regulations) taking money from his pocket? Ignore it? They can't. No simple answer but look at both sides.

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by AK-HUNT View Post
    I believe what started iaf's problems was in fact a commercial air carrier. Likely the same here. What should the FAA do when a commercial operator complains that the volunteers are (breaking published regulations) taking money from his pocket? Ignore it? They can't. No simple answer but look at both sides.
    What would be wrong with making changes to the "published regulations"??? Seems to be a real simple answer to me.
    "96% of all Internet Quotes are suspect and the remaining 4% are fiction."
    ~~Abraham Lincoln~~

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    Yep. Agree.
    The ANSWER is simple. Getting it done is not.

    I am the last to defend the FAA, but I also don't want them picking and choosing which FAR's to enforce. They have to enforce the FAR as written I believe.
    The Quest guys surely saw this coming since the IAF has been going through the process for years now??
    Crappy deal for sure though.

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