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Thread: New Esquif Square Stern Models:

  1. #1
    Member mainer_in_ak's Avatar
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    Default New Esquif Square Stern Models:

    So they call these new models the "Rangeley" canoes. They are supposedly 49" in width. They look like they have a y-stern. Would be a good boat for the Copperhead 6.5. With that kind of width, they should be darned good boats. The 15 ft. model looks to be a shortened model......almost like a sport boat version like with the Grummans. I hope they actually measure a true 49", unlike my Esquif Cargo which only measured about 41" as opposed to the 44" they claim. Even if it doesn't , it should still be a darned good boat to drag up some shallows. A fella from Ontario told me about them, I'll ask him to take a measurements of the new boats as soon as he sees one.
    http://www.esquif.com/2008/canot_en.php?id=39

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    Not sure if Rangely design boats are really considered canoes but close enough.

    It would be a handy craft.

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    Default Nice looking boat, but what are the numbers?

    I can't see on their web site what cargo poundage they're rated for, or what motor size/weight they recommend.... ???

    For example, my Scott Albany is rated for just over 1500 pounds cargo and a 10 HP motor, both of which I've exceeded and still been quite stable even in rough water. Quite understandably from a liability point of view, Scott seems to underrate their crafts' abilities. Pat from Scott canoe, if you're reading this feel free to comment - know that what I'm saying here is a compliment to your company and its products.

    Maybe the esquif boat is so new they just don't want to post numbers yet? Looking at some of their older models, some post some numbers on this and most don't - what's up with that?

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    Yes that is more of a lake boat. Would make a great lightweight lake trolling boat...or a nice row boat...straight tracker....

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    Kinda cool for flat water. At 125lbs it will not be THAT easy to car top carry. Even the 15' is 115 lbs.

    I wonder if the bottom is as soft and flexible as the Cargo and if it needs to be fixed too? If they haven't done something like ribs in the bottom, I bet the extra width will make it even more mushy in the bottom. It looks like it has a keel but can't tell if it is just in the stern.

    I'm kinda disappointed they didn't go with a 20' that's higher, wider and stiffer than the Cargo but I guess they did enough market research to show there was not enough demand for a boat like that. It will be interesting to have someone touch it and post some pictures of the inside and bottom.
    Somewhere along the way I have lost the ability to act politically correct. If you should find it, please feel free to keep it.

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    with all of the calls and stuff I thought that they would have done the 20' version
    Semper Fi and God Bless

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    Vern,

    Yes, they are actually considered canoes. We called em rowing canoes back home. Here's an interesting read about them if you care to find interest in the type of Canoe that Esquif are copying:

    http://outyourbackdoor.com/OYB8/boat...oerebuild.html

    Essentially all major canoe manufacturers copy old pre-existing or Indian designs with little dimensional "tweaks" here n there (like transoms and flat bottoms). The white water canoes are one particular example where the rocker and bow designs are so radical, that I doubt they were ever copied from anything.......not the case with this Rangeley boat though.


    length or width of a royalex canoe is always at the restriction of the sheet dimensions of royalex provided by the suppliers. Most sheets of royalex (before the molding process) won't allow a final product with 20 ft. length. Very few royalex suppliers offer these extra long sheets. Some do though.

    It appears that the Rangeley sport canoe design has "stepped chines" in the mold. These "steps" provide both increased rigidity to the hull, and better initial stability. The Cargo canoe doesn't have the "steps", or any type of chines. This new Esquif will be a boat with better initial stability due to the extra width, and the chines. My Old Town Discoveries that I used to run had stabilizer chines molded into the sides, and the initial stability was much better than my Cargo canoe. So for a guy running a little mud motor like the copperhead 6.5, the Rangley should be much better with that extra initial stability.

    Having both paddled the Cargo canoe, and run it with a mud motor, I've noticed that I can lean the Esquif Cargo until the gunwale is level with the water's surface without tipping it. Sometimes, this secondary stability is a good thing, but it's a bit unsettling if you're not used to it, or lack good balance. Having run a 17ft. Penobscot royalex canoe for quite a few years with a measly 33" waterline, secondary stability doesn't bother me a bit. The Esquif Cargo sure does paddle well though, for a Square Sterned canoe. With skill, you could run either boat and do the same thing (kill a moose and run rivers with the extra weight aboard), but the Rangeley canoe might make yah feel a bit more stable. Overall, they are both a good boats, it may just come down to preference.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tboehm View Post
    with all of the calls and stuff I thought that they would have done the 20' version
    If you or some of your friends are interested in building this larger version that you dream of, you'll have to have about (initial investment) $50,000-$60,000 to purchase the equipment needed to work with royalex or royalite. Spartech has the rights to "royalite" and royalex. You could set up directly with them, but all correspondence with Spartech is confidential and you might not get the sheets large enough to build this 20 ft. Royalex canoe that you speak of.

    http://www.spartech.com/plastics/contact_form.html

  9. #9

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    Hi
    I took a look at equif's Rangeley 17' from what i see it reminds me of the white hull rowing skiff. As some has pointed out Spartec owns and controls all royalex material made, they bought it from uniroyal several years ago.Any one making royalex or roylite canoes buy there sheets from Spartec . one thing i will mention I know for fact that our oven is not wide enough or long enough to accomdate the size of sheet need to make a 20' Freighter canoe it would be a major investment on our part and I doubt very much that Spartec has the equipment or capability to make the size of sheet we would want to make a 20' freighter.
    Pat @ Scott Canoes

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    I'm no expert but from the issues I've had with my Cargo, I don't think Royalex is the appropriate material to build a 20' or bigger anyway...too wimpy without support. I like aluminum because I can work with it and I have experience with fixing and building airplanes, but then it has it's shortcomings too.
    Somewhere along the way I have lost the ability to act politically correct. If you should find it, please feel free to keep it.

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    Royalex can be stiffened during layup by adding layers of different stiffening materials....honeycomb, Kevlar or carbon fiber/epoxy to name a few.....

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    Default love my Rock Magnet (Scott)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lowrider View Post
    I don't think Royalex is the appropriate material to build a 20' or bigger anyway...too wimpy without support. I like aluminum
    My Scott's fiberglass can be worked with well too. I like it great. No problems not being stiff enough. Its quieter in the water than aluminum. And I've bounced it off a lot of rocks - thus its new name: "Rock Magnet", which is actually more of a reflection of the captain than the boat.

    My buddy prepared for me a small kit that has cloth, resin, hardener in it so I can repair a good sized hole while afield; haven't needed that yet.

    Pat, good to see you still tuned in here (thanks again for the help you've give me on both advice and with parts), I have to ask: Does Scott sell a field repair kit similar to what my buddy put together for me? That might be an easy sell to any of your customers that go remote.

  13. #13

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    Hi
    We have never put together a field kit but it would not be hard to do. We do sell through our on line store Canoes Plus Supplies an fiberglass repair kit which consists of 1/2 pint of polyester resin a piece of 1 oz mat and a piece of 5 oz rovinging 12" x 12" and a 1/2 oz of catalist or hardner along with instructions on how to use the kit and to that i would add a pair disposable gloves a small foam brush, a small piece of 40 grit sand paper and a disposible drink glass for mixing the resin and hardner depending on the size of hole another product I have found that works great is Aquamend is an epoxy putty. It comes in a small plastic cylinder you just open the conainer cut off what you need for crack or small hole just nead the material in your hand( like you playing with kids silly putty) what you are doing is mixing the material and ahanner together once done just apply to the surface of area of repair you have spread it out a bit b no surgface rpep work once home you sand it down and refinish over top. the great this with this it will bond and set up wet and under water. a friend of mine come to the a couple years back come to me his ponton house bost was sit at the local marina with with a hell of a tilt to it the side the pontoon was almost underwater what happen was he had a tear in the pontoon about 1/4" wide x 12" long and could pump water out fast enough to get it on a trailer and out so we used th aquemend on the pontoon to fill in the crack and hold water out with in a half an hour we we able to pump out enough water and float enough to get it on his trailer once out of the water he was able to get it porperly repaired.
    ther are some really good porducts you can carry with you that does not take up alot of room and works reasonaly well under some pretty strained conditions
    Pat

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    I can attest to FamilyMan's ability to frequently discover rocks with his Scott Albany. Fiberglass is very tough and in my opinion, is the best material for larger freighter canoes. Matt fiberglass and polyester resin reinforced with aluminum keels is relatively tough at the bottom of the hull. Epoxy/and 24 oz roving woven has been a very tough combination for me (with no reinforcing keels). Both lay ups can be easily and permanently repaired with fast cure epoxy/fiberglass cloth in remote places. The top side paints, and exterior gel coat can be applied to the repair whenever you feel like it. The initial unloaded weight of freighter canoes is of little interest as opposed to paddling canoes for folks with the "boundary waters" mentality who only think of weight in regards to portaging ability.

    Materials like Royalex and Crosslink 3 are the best materials for the smaller square stern canoes that may be drug up very low water creeks. Next Yukon River Trip and hunting season, I will certainly be bringing my Esquif Cargo Atop my larger 22.5 ft. model canoe for the shallow side creeks to save my energy during low water dragging. Best of both worlds. With the measely fuel consumption of larger freighters like Ted's Teslin Freighter, The Hudson Bay, or Boudarc's James Bay, you could essentially haul a massive amount of fuel with the larger canoe, have major range on larger Rivers like the Yukon, and use the smaller Square stern to not only save fuel, but access tiny creeks or daily transport to smaller locations of rivers or creeks that flow into the Yukon. I bet Boudarc will use this strategy with his James Bay and his smaller square sterned canoes.

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    Default Aw..... its nuthin', really....

    Quote Originally Posted by mainer_in_ak View Post
    I can attest to FamilyMan's ability to frequently discover rocks with his Scott Albany. Fiberglass is very tough
    My talent in this area just comes naturally; I don't even have to try hard to excel at that.

    Yeah, the factory Scott fiberglass is tough all right; I have tested that extensively. I lose some green paint, but never yet a dent or hole.

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    looks like it will be a great small river canoe,should have a decent capacity.It would have been nice if it was a bit deeper than the cargo canoe though.Mainer it your test with the copperhead on the cargo,any idea how shallow that package would run?Is the propp even with the bottom of the transom or slightly below?I hope its not to much more $$ than the 17' cargo.

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    Grit, you would run as shallow as you need to. When you do ground out, I bet the water would only be up to your ankle before you had to drag the canoe.

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    Given the limitations dicussed above, of getting long enough sheets of raw Royalex material to build a 20' cargo canoe; How does Old Town manage to build their 20' Tripper XL out of Royalex?

    Thanx, Dave.
    "Luckily, enforcement reads these forums, and likely will peruse this one...Especially after a link of it is forwarded to them....." - AlaskaHippie.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BluNosDav View Post
    Given the limitations dicussed above, of getting long enough sheets of raw Royalex material to build a 20' cargo canoe; How does Old Town manage to build their 20' Tripper XL out of Royalex?

    Thanx, Dave.
    It might be the skinnier beam and shallower depth that allows more length, simple mathematical explanation I'd assume.

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    Hello,

    Who is a retailer of Esquif Rangeley canoes in Alaska, please? The Rangeley looks like it would work well for me and what I have in mind as an all purpose inland craft. And, I love rowing....

    Also, is anyone marketing Scott Canoes in Alaska or are they readily available in Whitehorse, CA. Does one go there and just pick it up? A Hudsons Bay sounds like it would go with my 20 hp Honda ss. It'd probably be more river worthy than the pram I currently have with this motor.

    Thank you!

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