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Thread: Snubbed my Tikka T3 lite .308

  1. #1
    Member trapperbob's Avatar
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    Default Snubbed my Tikka T3 lite .308

    I dropped my .308 Tikka by Precision Arms to have the barrel cut down to 18" so it fits below the top of my pack. Can't wait to get it back and see if it tightens up or how it responds. It shot 3/4" groups with several different factory ammo's. I just like them shorter for handling and carrying we'll see how it works out.

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    I'm curious to see how this works for you as I'm considering something similar. Are you planning on getting iron sights installed or go with just a scope?

    Mountaintrekker

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    I would not think you will achive a better group by cutting the barrel done. Tikka T3 has one of the finest production barrels on the market . It will be interesting how it turns out in the long run. Will you have a recess crown as well or just a polish and rounded crown?

    Sweepint
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    Frequently accuracy does get better with a shorter barrel but it is hard to predict that will happen...sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes it takes a new load to shoot better too....just gotta shoot em and see what happens. Sometimes short fat barrels work really well...sometimes they don't.

    Awhile back I cut a 24" .30 Herrett barrel down to 17" to make a handy little Contender rifle and it shot better by 50% with the shorter barrel. I liked it so much I cut my 24" .30-30AI barrel down too and it shoots worse...ya just don't know until you try it.
    Somewhere along the way I have lost the ability to act politically correct. If you should find it, please feel free to keep it.

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    I too am watching .... I have been planning on cutting mine down as well - will you be able to chrono the "new" velocities ?

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    Member hodgeman's Avatar
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    Please do post some photos...

    In my experience short barrels generally shoot very well...A friend shoots a bolt action pistol with a 14" barrel and can get benchrest groups that are flat amazing by any measure.

    The thought of a Tikka sporting an 18" tube and iron sights is intriguing and would weigh nearly nothing.
    "I do not deal in hypotheticals. The world, as it is, is vexing enough..." Col. Stonehill, True Grit

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    I have a 308 with a 15" barrel and it shootd well enough for me to hit caribou out past 250 yards. It is also a nice length for back packing in to hunt sheep.

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    Talking My shorty..............

    Here is my Kimber Montana 8400 in .325 WSM. It has a 17" barrel and it shots VERY accurately. Good luck and post pics when you get it done.
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    The Kimber looks nice and handy! How is the muzzle blast with the 17" with the WSM? I always cut to 17" so there is something left to work with in case it needs to be recrowned or threaded. My Sako 20" in 375 H&H barks pretty loud and it is better to not be standing next to it.
    Somewhere along the way I have lost the ability to act politically correct. If you should find it, please feel free to keep it.

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    Member gunguy1968's Avatar
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    Other than a "confined" space, it seems like any other rifle. It is a very quick little jolt when firing, so it doesn't have the big heavy push. It is way more comfortable in every aspect than I was even hoping for. It is portable and still is VERY accurate and has the horsepower to get the job done. As long as I shoot it I don't have to be concerned about anyone close to me
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    Member trapperbob's Avatar
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    Default Picture of snub

    Well I almost feel bad posting in the shooting forum since I have yet to shoot this gun since I got it cut off. Here is a picture anyway, and I hope to shoot it when off work next week. If aesthetics were really important to someone a 19" barrel might look a little more natural on the full sized stock. But as tools go I think I am really going to like this. It sits below the top of my pack. When I shoot it I will post on what is really important whether it still hits the target.
    IMG_0020.jpg

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    Let me begin by saying that there is not a single, magical barrel length that is optimal for all cartridges. I believe it is firearm and load specific that determines accuracy no matter what the length of barrel with in reason. It's not just length, but how the barrel is mounted, it's style, bearing pressure points - many factors but mainly the time it takes the shock wave to move up the barrel to the muzzle and back down again to the chamber end as the bullet is exiting the barrel that really matters - not so much the length (this is all assuming we have a properly bedded rifle, a well made barrel and good barrel receiver fit).

    There are many products out there for folks to try that are suppose to help you find the magical group by controlling the time the shock wave reaches the end of the barrel and back down to the chamber end of the barrel - so that the bullet is exiting the barrel at the optimum moment. Browning uses the Boss as one example. It has to do with the barrel's weight, mass, caliber, the load, the load components, etc... affecting the timing of the shock wave that moves up and back down the barrel. There are way too many variables for a common barrel length solution, for all rifles. But there is a common solution for all rifles and barrel lengths that I will get to in just a moment for good accuracy, and it has to do with the length of the barrel.

    The barrel weight (thickness) is part of the equation. A stiffer barrel moves less - no matter what the vibration node pattern looks like. Remember that you sacrifice velocity as you lose barrel length (in the shorter barrel the shockwave gets to the end of the barrel and back faster); especially true of the larger capacity cases as you approach a more "overbore" condition. Some very thin contoured barreled hunting rifles are very accurate (case in point - my M48 TGR in 7mm08) - and some slim barrels are at least for a few shots. It makes no more sense to me to say, "x" barrel length for best accuracy in all rifles, a pet load being great for all rifles, or expecting any manual's load to perform for us as it did for those who put the manual together.

    It has to do more with the load used that creates the shock wave that goes from one end of the barrel and back no matter the length. The initial shock wave, generated by any charge of powder, will travel at the speed of sound in steel (just at 18,000 fps or there about), from the chamber to the muzzle, then back, in a repeated pattern. What we try to do with our hand loads is get the speed of the load to time the bullet's exit just as the shock wave reaches back to the chamber end of the barrel - before it starts back up the barrel again.



    Of course we have to experiment with different load chain combinations, because we don't have the lab equipment to help measure or see when the shock wave is at the muzzle or at the chamber end of the barrel. When this wave is present at the muzzle, there is naturally a great deal of turbulence and obturation (obturation refers in this case to the flaring under the pressure of the shock wave and bullet upon exiting) of the bore at muzzle. However, when this main shock wave has reverberated back to the chamber end, the muzzle is relatively stable allowing for much less turbulence at the muzzle. This window in timing, gives the bullet the best opportunity, to exit the muzzle with much less turmoil and on a more consistent and repeatable bases. The barrel is basically straight, and relatively calm, allowing for tighter groups.



    If the bullet is leaving the end of the barrel when the shock wave is at the muzzle, this creates a "scatter node effect" (in other words it will produce a scattered group and even cause random flyers). It is interesting that many times all I have had to do is add one or two grains of powder to a charge that is causing the opening of groups and flyers for it to settle down (do not use more grains if already at max) and you will be right where you need to be a lot of the time. Some times we give up when the group is not a tight group when just a little more work with the load will match the timing needed for our barrel length. When having the right load to push the bullet at just the right speed to exit the muzzle when the shock wave is at the chamber end of the barrel, usually produces good results.



    Once you find this load for your specific bullet weight and powder charge that causes the wave to move at the right speed, for the wave to get back again to the chamber end of the barrel, and the bullet leaves the muzzle at that moment - then barrel length does not matter. You will generally have a great load and small consistent groups. As long as, the relationship between the time it takes the bullet to exit the muzzle, and the oscillating shock wave to be out and back to the chamber end of the barrel, you will more than likely have good groups. It is important to know that the shock wave travels at the same speed, no matter what length of the barrel is being used, so since this is the case there is no such thing as a magic barrel length for all cartridges and rifles, just good loads, that get the timing right, and remember the timing will change on your shorter barrel because the shock wave will get to the end of the barrel and back down to the receiver faster than it did before. Your rifle might shoot better and it might not with the ammo you were using. I personally hope it shoots better for you, but because it is short is not a guarantee it will. I hope you experience good results.
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  13. #13

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    I gave up 140 FPS (just over the projected 25 fps loss per inch I was hoping for) average cutting my Browning TI 325 down form 23" to 18". But I wanted it for a short range lightweight bear slayer anyways. Its 5 pounds 11 oz and loaded it'll still be sub 6 pounds. Gonna try some 200 grain partitions as well as 220 grain woodleighs and see which is better. Brownings have short box mags so the squatty bullets are preferred for me to hand-load with and still have some case capacity. Being such a lightweight gun I was leary of the recoil. Turns out its not too bad. The WSM doesn't seem to buck like a regular Win Mag does, also I got it magnaported which helped also.


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    Now, I really like that, pretty cool and looks handy indeed.
    A GUN WRITER NEEDS:
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  15. #15

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    I do too. Talk about quick on target!!! Its fun to shoot thus far. Though I only got it back from Maganport yesterday so I only got 30 rounds down the pipe thus far.

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    Moderator LuJon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alaska_Lanche View Post
    I do too. Talk about quick on target!!! Its fun to shoot thus far. Though I only got it back from Maganport yesterday so I only got 30 rounds down the pipe thus far.
    "Sent from his reloading bench using android powered by quick-load"

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    I really like this thread. There's something quick and handy regarding short-barreled carbines. What you gain, outweighs the tiny loss of velocity. Not a single rifle of mine has a barrel length more than 20". Keep the pictures coming.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LuJon View Post
    "Sent from his reloading bench using android powered by quick-load"
    You know my phone barely handles the complexities of texting let alone logging onto the internet and uploading pics.

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    never knew you had a Browning Ti, I'm kinda drooling over that thing. You hafta let me shoot that some time. Dang nice rifle. Pretty bold to chop it all the way to 18"

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by mainer_in_ak View Post
    never knew you had a Browning Ti, I'm kinda drooling over that thing. You hafta let me shoot that some time. Dang nice rifle. Pretty bold to chop it all the way to 18"
    Will do Mainer. As for the chop....go big (or small in this case) or go home!!

    Yeah I picked up the Browning a couple months ago for this particular project. Wanted a Ultra light little bear slayer. We'll see what I can work up for it. Just looked in my safe, have a rifles with 16.5", 18", 20", 20", 24" 24"....almost a carbine freak as much as you. The handier the better.

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