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Thread: Potlatch Moose

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    Member AKHunterNP's Avatar
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    Default Potlatch Moose

    I heard some discussion about Potlatch Moose from some folks. Does anyone know about this and who reports harvest of the moose?
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    Supporting Member iofthetaiga's Avatar
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    Potlatch use of fish and game falls under the subsistence regs.
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    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    Potlatch is different between groups/clans and few have the potlatch moose
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    Member tlingitwarrior's Avatar
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    I was privliged to have honor of harvesting two potlach moose for Anchorage tribe this past fall. I informed the fish and game rep from the area we hunted to let him know of my intent. I received a permit from him and we harvested two cow moose that were used to feed close to 1,000 people. I was able to take my wife and 4 kids on the hunt, and we were honored to know our hard work was enjoyed by so many wonderful people.
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    Member thewhop2000's Avatar
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    Warrier, glad you got to share that much meat with so many people. Question? Did you take them out of the anchorage bowl or did you drive out to the valley to harvest those two Cows? To me Potlach moose should be taken from the area that you share the meat with most of those people. If not, you are taking a [possible moose out of my freezer, depending on the population and permits issued each year. That is the problem I have with Potlach moose. Before I resigned from the Mat-Su Ac last year, actually just didn't run for a second term. Anyway, We had a girl Farmer from Point Mac show up and testify that a state trooper and another person shot a moose on her farm, w/o permission. Left the guts in her field but took the meat. She confronted them and they said they had a permit for a potlatch moose and didn't care that she told them to vamooose. She was in tears when telling this story because when she complaigned to the trooper post, nothing was done. Apparentely the trooper was Native and his half brother was the other guy who helped harvest that moose. All we could do was tell her to contact the state law department and file an official complaint. Don't know what ever happened but it was somewhat alarming to hear of something like that. Get a potlatch permit, shoot it out of your neighborhood, don't take it out of mine.
    If a dipnetter dips a fish and there is no one around to see/hear it, Did he really dip?

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    Quote Originally Posted by thewhop2000 View Post
    Warrier, glad you got to share that much meat with so many people. Question? Did you take them out of the anchorage bowl or did you drive out to the valley to harvest those two Cows? To me Potlach moose should be taken from the area that you share the meat with most of those people. If not, you are taking a [possible moose out of my freezer, depending on the population and permits issued each year. That is the problem I have with Potlach moose. Before I resigned from the Mat-Su Ac last year, actually just didn't run for a second term. Anyway, We had a girl Farmer from Point Mac show up and testify that a state trooper and another person shot a moose on her farm, w/o permission. Left the guts in her field but took the meat. She confronted them and they said they had a permit for a potlatch moose and didn't care that she told them to vamooose. She was in tears when telling this story because when she complaigned to the trooper post, nothing was done. Apparentely the trooper was Native and his half brother was the other guy who helped harvest that moose. All we could do was tell her to contact the state law department and file an official complaint. Don't know what ever happened but it was somewhat alarming to hear of something like that. Get a potlatch permit, shoot it out of your neighborhood, don't take it out of mine.
    That's funny, I don't care where you're from. Coming from the president of scada. Well here's one for you fishwop- Get a dipnet permit, dipit out of your neighborhood, don't take it out of mine.

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    Member tlingitwarrior's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=gunner;1066046]That's funny, I don't care where you're from. Coming from the president of scada. Well here's one for you fishwop- Get a dipnet permit, dipit out of your neighborhood, don't take it out of mine.[/QUOTE

    Well said Gunner.

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    Member Matt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thewhop2000 View Post
    Warrier, glad you got to share that much meat with so many people. Question? Did you take them out of the anchorage bowl or did you drive out to the valley to harvest those two Cows? To me Potlach moose should be taken from the area that you share the meat with most of those people. If not, you are taking a [possible moose out of my freezer, depending on the population and permits issued each year. That is the problem I have with Potlach moose. Before I resigned from the Mat-Su Ac last year, actually just didn't run for a second term. Anyway, We had a girl Farmer from Point Mac show up and testify that a state trooper and another person shot a moose on her farm, w/o permission. Left the guts in her field but took the meat. She confronted them and they said they had a permit for a potlatch moose and didn't care that she told them to vamooose. She was in tears when telling this story because when she complaigned to the trooper post, nothing was done. Apparentely the trooper was Native and his half brother was the other guy who helped harvest that moose. All we could do was tell her to contact the state law department and file an official complaint. Don't know what ever happened but it was somewhat alarming to hear of something like that. Get a potlatch permit, shoot it out of your neighborhood, don't take it out of mine.
    In tears over a moose? Wow, what a PC world we live in.

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    We dont have potlatch's up here, but you can come around and get all you want , half the out of state Caribou Hunters come to my backyard.....

    Id like to do such a hunt, Potlatch Muskox would be a time!!
    If you can't Kill it with a 30-06, you should Hide.

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    Member akiceman25's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gunner View Post
    Well here's one for you fishwop- Get a dipnet permit, dipit out of your neighborhood, don't take it out of mine.
    +1 gunner said it best...

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    I dipnet fishcreek every time it is opened!!!!
    If a dipnetter dips a fish and there is no one around to see/hear it, Did he really dip?

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    Member thewhop2000's Avatar
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    I dipnet fishcreek every time it is opened!!!! This is my own personal opinion and has nothing to do with SCADA. The valley must get the most hunting pressure for moose than anywhere else in the state. Being so close to Anchorage and the Mat-su is growing by leaps and bounds too. You can hunt for years and not see a legal bull. Besides all the road kills and such too. Have any of you talked to the bio out here that gives out permits? It certainly is an eye opener. One applicant had a family member die 3 years before and that was his reason for wanting to go kill a moose in February. Another problem is taking a moose in February or March is you can't tell the differance between a bull or a cow, no horns. So that February hunt just might be messing up the cow/bull ratios that the bio's strive for. The board of game really needs to tighten up on the regs cause the valley gets hit really hard on the potlatch thing. Maybe I shot off before I put more thought into my reply but I have a problem with the potlatch thing period. This has nothing to do with Native or non-native issues either so Gunner, don't try to make this into a political attack cause you have a problem with dippers. As said before, just my personal opinion. We are all Alaskan and one group should not have priority over another.
    If a dipnetter dips a fish and there is no one around to see/hear it, Did he really dip?

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    Member tlingitwarrior's Avatar
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    For the record both cows were shoot several hundred miles from "your" backyard. We ciuld have gone anywhere and shot either bull or cow, but this group always has its potlach hunts on its own property.
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    Member Hunt&FishAK's Avatar
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    wait? you cant tell the diff between a bull and a cow? ive never had a problem doing so....antler bases are a great indicator



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    Member thewhop2000's Avatar
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    Hunt, I'm talking in general, most people can't really choose between the two come winter especially if its a shot over 100 yards. I have been hunting long enough to look for a number of things. Color of the hide, beard that is long, etc, besides the bases.
    The point being that this potlatch thing divides the races once again. We should all be grouped together as a people and all have the same rights. To me potlatch creates a special group with yet another priority over others.
    Since Gunner brought up SCADA, let me be the first to say that I have never thought that dippers should have a priority over any others. Again, this is my personal feelings and thoughts. It's hard enough finding a legal bull out here but to have another group take a moose whenever they want is just plain not right.
    If a dipnetter dips a fish and there is no one around to see/hear it, Did he really dip?

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    I find it comforting the state and to some extent, the Feds, are able and willing to recognize time honored traditions such as a potlach, killing of whales, etc.
    Go for it and enjoy the opportunity.

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    Member thewhop2000's Avatar
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    Slavery was once a time honored tradition too. People all over the world praticed it. One village attacking another was a tradition, over thousands of years also. I know its a stretch but you get my point.
    If they combined the roadkill program with Potlatch, I could go for that. The animal is down anyway. You could have the troopers call one potlatch, then one non potlatch. Rotate the list so everybody gets a chance at a roadkill moose.
    What we have now is two hunting seasons. If you don't connect on the first hunting season by the regs, Heck, we'll just tell them Uncle Harry died and shoot one this winter when they are standing by the roads anyway.
    Sorry guys but what we have now just does not sit right with me. My opinion, everybody's got one.
    If a dipnetter dips a fish and there is no one around to see/hear it, Did he really dip?

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    Forum Admin Brian M's Avatar
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    whop - I'm sure there is some abuse of the potlach system just as there is with any other wildlife regulation, be it sport hunting, dipnetting, etc. That being said, comparing it to slavery and village warfare? Come on. Yes, you admitted its a stretch, but your point is lost when making such a comparison. Slavery and warfare are about subjugating entire groups of people through control of all aspects of their life or outright killing. How exactly does this compare to the burden you bear when someone from Anchorage harvests a potlach moose in the valley?

    Have you ever heard of Godwin's Law? Though it refers specifically to Hitler comparisons, I'd say that slavery comparisons are basically the same.

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    Member martentrapper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thewhop2000 View Post
    Heck, we'll just tell them Uncle Harry died and shoot one this winter when they are standing by the roads anyway.
    I don't think it's quite that easy. Perhaps you should familiarize yourself with the actual reg.
    As tlingit said, they went to the bio first. I think the various depts keep track of now many moose (or other game animal) are taken under the potlatch rule in their area.
    Perhaps it would be interesting to get some numbers on how many animals are taken each year this way. Probably not as many as are taken illegally out of season.
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    Supporting Member iofthetaiga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thewhop2000 View Post
    The point being that this potlatch thing divides the races once again. We should all be grouped together as a people and all have the same rights. To me potlatch creates a special group with yet another priority over others.
    Since Gunner brought up SCADA, let me be the first to say that I have never thought that dippers should have a priority over any others. Again, this is my personal feelings and thoughts. It's hard enough finding a legal bull out here but to have another group take a moose whenever they want is just plain not right.
    That you have a personal problem with potlatch hunting is apparent, and you have the right to your opinion. But don't put me in the same boat as you. "This potlatch thing" doesn't "divide the races" unless we choose to be divided. Where you seem to view a potlatch hunt as competition, and a personal affront to your ability to find a bull in the valley, others in your "race" may not. Don't include me in your silly cultural bias.
    ...he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods & errors. ~Thomas Jefferson
    I would rather have a mind opened by wonder than one closed by belief. ~Gerry Spence
    The last thing Alaska needs is another bigot. ~member Catch It
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