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Thread: You can't have debate or conversation in America anymore

  1. #1
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    Unhappy You can't have debate or conversation in America anymore

    Wow Thank you for the post about the trails,
    Sounds like you had a good time in coming out of Big Lake. Please keep spreading the word. I hope and wish these conditions will become the new standards for our Big Lake Trails. Itís been many years of tough trails and people leaving for better places, but not nowÖThere have been many hours and days of work this year from both side East and West. Without family, friends and hard working Volunteers this would not been possible. Thank You to all the Volunteers making Big Lake a better place to ride.
    That been said I need some good advice on how to proceed or if I should, I just had something happen to me. First I to am a volunteer and have been for years. I am in good standings with life, credit, debt etc. I had a clean court record till yesterday (now it show a case file of stalking) (File stasis open pending) when two protective Orders where attempted to be placed on me. One was requested for an effective immediately for 20 days and the second is for 6 months. The description of conduct is baseless and fabricated. Some might so its slander or a down right out lies but the court will hear the case now.
    First Thank God we live in America. Because this was denied / Denial of order
    It requested I stay clear 8 mile or more from a residence Iíve never been but which is in the center of the lake, Big Lake. So it requested I canít leave my property, I canít go into the town of Big Lake for milk or my mail (the US post office).
    It requested that I could not work or provide any grooming services anymore because any access points I would have use would put me within the 8 mile. For sure Trail 11, crooked Lake Trail.
    It requested I stay away or clear of any Community trails meetings for our community trails,
    It requested I Stay away or clear of any community council meeting in which I am a residence of and member to the council, as well as running for a board seat. So is the other person.
    Avoid any contact on winter trail for 8 miles so I would not even be able to ride or use the State or local trails anymore in our Big Lake area or to get to my cabin on the Yentna River just above Yentna station from Big Lake.
    This is what it is costing me and now it going to be lawyer feeís all to provide and promote better trails from Big Lake area and to the Big Su, for sure from either the little Su or from little cow to the Big Su depending on the day or week in the past years the trails have been terrible and or never touched while being paid and funded.
    Searching for advice what should I do? My mission has been for better trails and it taken 3 years to get the trails as good as they are today so my campaign of standards and accountability is working.
    Iím trying to be fair leaving out the name of the other person you can search for it and his private club yourself. May name is Pat Daniels. Alaska Court View is the site.

  2. #2
    Member EagleRiverDee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trail Nut BLT View Post

    It requested I stay clear 8 mile or more from a residence Iíve never been but which is in the center of the lake, Big Lake. So it requested I canít leave my property, I canít go into the town of Big Lake for milk or my mail (the US post office).
    It requested that I could not work or provide any grooming services anymore because any access points I would have use would put me within the 8 mile. For sure Trail 11, crooked Lake Trail.
    It requested I stay away or clear of any Community trails meetings for our community trails,
    It requested I Stay away or clear of any community council meeting in which I am a residence of and member to the council, as well as running for a board seat. So is the other person.
    Avoid any contact on winter trail for 8 miles so I would not even be able to ride or use the State or local trails anymore in our Big Lake area or to get to my cabin on the Yentna River just above Yentna station from Big Lake.
    This is what it is costing me and now it going to be lawyer feeís all to provide and promote better trails from Big Lake area and to the Big Su, for sure from either the little Su or from little cow to the Big Su depending on the day or week in the past years the trails have been terrible and or never touched while being paid and funded.
    Searching for advice what should I do?
    Well I'm sure there's more to the story but a restraining order that confines you to your property and leaves you unable to travel to town for basic necessities and prevents you from working sounds extreme. Contact a lawyer, would be my suggestion. Perhaps a limited restraining order can be arranged, or you can arbitrate the situation with the person you were allegedly stalking.
    "If snowmachiners would adopt the habits of riding one at a time and not parking at the base of avalanche prone slopes, the number of fatalities would likely be whittled by at least a third, if not by half." ~ Jill Fredston, in the book Snowstruck, In The Grip Of Avalanches.

  3. #3
    Moderator AKmud's Avatar
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    Was the order served on you by the court or AST? If it is only the application, none of it is in effect yet. If it has been served, make sure to appear for the 20 day court date or else the court will automatically grant the long term order.
    AKmud
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    Member AKDoug's Avatar
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    And the battle between Big Lake Trails and Alpine General Services continues.....

  5. #5

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    Grants and Other People's Money always brings out the worst in us.

    Let it go Trail Nut. Take care of the trail you need to get to your cabin and enjoy your time out there.
    "96% of all Internet Quotes are suspect and the remaining 4% are fiction."
    ~~Abraham Lincoln~~

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    Somebody PM me and tell me what this is all about... Kind of curious.

  7. #7
    Member russiarulez's Avatar
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    Yeah what is this all about?

  8. #8
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    Sounds like the guy is hitting the sauce before posting, or not English-speaking as first language.

    Go get a lawyer not matter what.
    Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocre minds. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Albert Einstein

    Better living through chemistry (I'm a chemist)

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  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by alaskan77 View Post
    Somebody PM me and tell me what this is all about... Kind of curious.
    $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$...Isn't always about $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$?
    "96% of all Internet Quotes are suspect and the remaining 4% are fiction."
    ~~Abraham Lincoln~~

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    What blows me away is you lower 48 guys come up here and "need" trails. We got along perfectly well without your "need" for trails. It is really easy; you get on your machine and......go. See?

    Now you guys and your lawyers and signs and traffc cops and....just like that third world fecal hole you left behind.
    Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocre minds. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Albert Einstein

    Better living through chemistry (I'm a chemist)

    You can piddle with the puppies, or run with the wolves...

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitroman View Post
    What blows me away is you lower 48 guys come up here and "need" trails. We got along perfectly well without your "need" for trails. It is really easy; you get on your machine and......go. See?

    Now you guys and your lawyers and signs and traffc cops and....just like that third world fecal hole you left behind.
    What they fail to realize, is that as the trails become marked and recognized it will lead to being restricted to those trails.
    "96% of all Internet Quotes are suspect and the remaining 4% are fiction."
    ~~Abraham Lincoln~~

  12. #12
    Premium Member bmunsell's Avatar
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    I don't know what this is all about but generally if trails aren't marked and recognized then there is always a danger that they will be closed. All it takes is a new landowner in a critical area, a choke point of some kind and a whole trail system can go down the tubes. Being restricted to using a trail in an area where there is private property isn't bad it's just being a good neighbor.

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Akres View Post
    What they fail to realize, is that as the trails become marked and recognized it will lead to being restricted to those trails.
    If the trails are not marked it lead to things like Hatcher Pass area and much of it will be shut down. A marked trail for many years is a much beter defense to keeping an area open than saying that some one rides in a general area. People need to stand up and be heard at the first sign of a problem rather than wait until the wheels are in motion to close a given area. That is where the machine registration helps out as part of that money comes back in the form of grants that help with trail marking and trail grooming. In most areas just because there is a trail does not mean that you have to ride on a groomed trail. Unless it goes through private property or a restricked goverment land. Trails and trail marking is a means of staking out your right to use these areas for now and in the future.

  14. #14
    Member EagleRiverDee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitroman View Post
    What blows me away is you lower 48 guys come up here and "need" trails. We got along perfectly well without your "need" for trails. It is really easy; you get on your machine and......go. See?

    Now you guys and your lawyers and signs and traffc cops and....just like that third world fecal hole you left behind.
    Different strokes for different folks. Big Lake and other groomed trail areas are nice for families that just want to get out and ride. It's where our family started out (lifelong Alaskans, thank you very much) and then we upgraded sleds and started riding off trail in deep pow and we love it. But everyone needs to start somewhere and if you want to take a newbie out or a kid a nice groomed trail system is a great place to start them riding.
    "If snowmachiners would adopt the habits of riding one at a time and not parking at the base of avalanche prone slopes, the number of fatalities would likely be whittled by at least a third, if not by half." ~ Jill Fredston, in the book Snowstruck, In The Grip Of Avalanches.

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    PM = Post more?
    Thank you for your responses, most comments. I still am confused, stressed and in some way feel like Iíve had to go into hiding, (lying low) till things figure themselves out.
    I Won my day in court; I have plenty of witness and facts to dispute 100% of this. Mr. M had to back out of all his false, dishonest claims at the last minute under directions of his attorney, some thing to do with Perjury, in court in front of a Judge. The Judge approved a motion for attorney feeís that was good, and a first so it shouldnít cost me any more money (I hope). But itís still on my record as a denial order / closed and that stresses me. For the record again, the court filed paper work statement where a lie and made up, they where filed in a last chance effort to continue to hide the dishonest workings and documented facts of taking your tax dollar funds without work, this was and is being done on multiple trails and for multiple years. This was also done while or in the middle of a Community Council election, while promoting conversations and/or emails in the community fully knowing that this information he was promoting was incorrect and fabricated. Not to mention the little misreporting of the fact that he is not a full time resident to the area as the bylaws state to hold a board seat. As to the public records of the MSB, property record details of primary residence location address.
    For the record it not about the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$, Itís a looser for me in every way shape and form. Itís my new equipment and time. It wasnít given to me by your tax dollars; Iím only doing it to prove it could be done to a standard and weekly. To show and prove Thousands of your tax dollars and or Registration feeís where being stolen or taken and then covered up. The trail split is said to be 70/30 but it is closer to 60/40 in mile for 30% pay. The campaign was to get better trails and standards in the area and to promote community involvement NOT a private discriminating club taking your tax dollars.
    If I decided to stop loosing my own money and destroying my new equipment, by stopping my grooming and only going to the cabin you will now know what you had in our area while someone was fighting for better trail and honest grant funding.
    Thanks again for your thoughts enjoy the trails be safe and look out for others.

  16. #16
    Premium Member denalihunter's Avatar
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    I don't care about the issue or the story, but I want to point out that Alpine Creek Lodge is in no way affiliated with Alpine General Services or Alpine Lodge in Fairbanks. The only affiliation Alpine Creek Lodge has is with our small 8 acres on the Denali Highway. Never heard of Alpine Services until this thread, but we do take bookings for Alpine Lodge in Fairbanks occasionally, before we realize they called the wrong place.... lol

    Hope all the above works out. Sounds like a mess.
    Experience Real Alaska! www.alpinecreeklodge.com

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    i live off hollywood and often walk a trail that runs from johnsons to hollywood and beyond . every now and then the trail gets groomed, within hours a group of paddle-trackers 3 or 4 strong hit that trail. whoop whoop - whoop whoop .trail destroyed. i allways wondered why. i should have guessed that its nothing more than valley drama.

  18. #18
    Member EagleRiverDee's Avatar
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    Seems like you guys ought to team up rather than beat each other up. The end goal seems to be the same.
    "If snowmachiners would adopt the habits of riding one at a time and not parking at the base of avalanche prone slopes, the number of fatalities would likely be whittled by at least a third, if not by half." ~ Jill Fredston, in the book Snowstruck, In The Grip Of Avalanches.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EagleRiverDee View Post
    Different strokes for different folks. Big Lake and other groomed trail areas are nice for families that just want to get out and ride. It's where our family started out (lifelong Alaskans, thank you very much) and then we upgraded sleds and started riding off trail in deep pow and we love it. But everyone needs to start somewhere and if you want to take a newbie out or a kid a nice groomed trail system is a great place to start them riding.
    Well Dee, we disagree. There are thousands out here that the only "trail" they ride is where someone has ridden before them. I do not believe it takes "grooming" to introduce someone or a young one to riding.

    I will agree that it would be nice to fly around on trails like highways, but with all the crap (like this thread), and the politics and fees...I would rather just ride if you know what I mean.
    Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocre minds. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Albert Einstein

    Better living through chemistry (I'm a chemist)

    You can piddle with the puppies, or run with the wolves...

  20. #20
    Moderator AKmud's Avatar
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    I think this thread has run it's course...
    AKmud
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    The porcupine is a peacful animal yet God still thought it necessary to give him quills....

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