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Thread: Long Distance

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    Default Long Distance

    Guys I was reading the past posts on 1200 yds with a 7mm and agree with all that posted neg against. Sitting here on line Alaska Outdoors, on Outdoor Net just came on showing 500 yd shots at Mnt Goat on Kodiak. 5 shots and could not tell if he was hit. Next round of the hunt looked as close and after 2 shots you still do not Know.

    I have hunted anyway you can name, catch and tie hogs, bear dogs, dear dogs, bow, crossbow, pistol, black powder, rifle. I believe in supporting the hunt even if you disagree with the style. We have to band together and support what we do. That said.....


    How do I go to work tomorrow and argue or try to prove to a non-hunter what we do is right when TV and hunters(?) are pushing the limits that you can not tell the animal is legal more or less if he hit it. Beyond belief and other money hungry commercial enterprises are going to destroy the hunt and the rights we have. Not to mention the guide even allowed him to try.

    Yes I am opening the flood gates on this one

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    Supporting Member iofthetaiga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fergy View Post
    How do I go to work tomorrow and argue or try to prove to a non-hunter what we do is right when TV and hunters(?) are pushing the limits that you can not tell the animal is legal more or less if he hit it.
    Shoot tundrawooky or duckhunter01 a PM. They should be able to get you lined out on this one.
    ...he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods & errors. ~Thomas Jefferson
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    That's why I did not respond to that thread, Did like your answers.

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    webmaster Michael Strahan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fergy View Post
    Guys I was reading the past posts on 1200 yds with a 7mm and agree with all that posted neg against. Sitting here on line Alaska Outdoors, on Outdoor Net just came on showing 500 yd shots at Mnt Goat on Kodiak. 5 shots and could not tell if he was hit. Next round of the hunt looked as close and after 2 shots you still do not Know.

    I have hunted anyway you can name, catch and tie hogs, bear dogs, dear dogs, bow, crossbow, pistol, black powder, rifle. I believe in supporting the hunt even if you disagree with the style. We have to band together and support what we do. That said.....


    How do I go to work tomorrow and argue or try to prove to a non-hunter what we do is right when TV and hunters(?) are pushing the limits that you can not tell the animal is legal more or less if he hit it. Beyond belief and other money hungry commercial enterprises are going to destroy the hunt and the rights we have. Not to mention the guide even allowed him to try.

    Yes I am opening the flood gates on this one
    Fergy,

    I really appreciate your perspective. To take extremely long shots on game in hopes of hitting it "somewhere" is way beyond the limits of proper ethical hunting behavior. It shows a callous disregard for the animal itself and is more reflective of a hunter's ego than his skill. Animals are not for target practice. Period.

    -Mike
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    Mike thanks for the backing on this!!!! Please push the rules on ALL responses. I think we need to address this issue big time. I shoot long range and "think" I am pretty good, BUT to not speak out I feel we will all loose.

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    How do we define "extremly long" I spent three years taking shots five days a week with open sights at 500 meters I feel very confident shooting that distance with optics. Am I unethical?

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    webmaster Michael Strahan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rdrash View Post
    How do we define "extremly long" I spent three years taking shots five days a week with open sights at 500 meters I feel very confident shooting that distance with optics. Am I unethical?
    Is your experience in a military context?

    -Mike
    LOST CREEK COMPANY: Specializing in Alaska hunt consultation and planning for do-it-yourself hunts, fully outfitted hunts, and guided hunts.
    CLICK HERE to send me a private message.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rdrash View Post
    How do we define "extremly long" I spent three years taking shots five days a week with open sights at 500 meters I feel very confident shooting that distance with optics. Am I unethical?
    perhaps you should have spent some of that time practicing stalking techniques

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    Quote Originally Posted by gunner View Post


    perhaps you should have spent some of that time practicing stalking techniques
    Okay, I don't want to muzzle anyone here, because this is an important topic with opinions all over the place. But let's refrain from insulting each other or making personal comments. I am sure this one was in jest, but let's be careful, okay?

    -Mike
    LOST CREEK COMPANY: Specializing in Alaska hunt consultation and planning for do-it-yourself hunts, fully outfitted hunts, and guided hunts.
    CLICK HERE to send me a private message.
    Web Address: http://alaskaoutdoorssupersite.com/hunt-planner/
    Mob: 1 (907) 229-4501
    "Dream big, and dare to fail." -Norman Vaughan
    "I have climbed my mountain, but I must still live my life." - Tenzig Norgay

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    I think I could make a shot like that on Paper, as I am a practised long distance shooter.
    I do very well to half that distance with Iron sights, im working up on a scoped Finn Mosin Biathalon rifle, and I think shooting that far , accuratly, would be almost as cool as, but not quite as good as SEX.


    Im practised enough and a Hunter enough to know when and where Im gonna take a shot, and it would never be taken , at that range, on a living animal, ever. My personal limit is about 400yards where I can make 5 for 5 headshots all day long on animals Ive sized up. I live in the open Tundra and animals at that distance are not unusual, as I will often catch the first onein the herd at 150 yards (wide open tundra) the next at 200, maybe a 3rd at 3-400 and quickly moveing away.
    Then, no matter what, I simply stop shooting and either make with intercepting them or dealing with what i have at the moment.

    beyond 1,000 yards, the certainty isnt there and Killing animals like that is justa stupid game.

    Whats to prove after the shot? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm, theres so much to prove....


    Was is hit? Where did it go? Was it fat? Was it within legal limits? Was it what you think it was? Is it dead or what? Its wounded and running irradicly away, now how long of a shot can I make?


    Part of Hunting is to size up your prey. Even Fur deserves a Size up' before trigger pulling.


    Playing this game with live animals is the sorta 'Spin the wheel', see what hits the dirt, what never notices its safe with you shooting or walks off gutshot.


    Part of Safe Gun use is knowing you target and beyond.

    Put 5 bullets in the same bullseye at 1,200 yards and I'll be impressed. Take a shot like that on a living animal and I will hunt somewhere else with someone else.
    If you can't Kill it with a 30-06, you should Hide.

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    I'm lost, what's the beef? Who we talking about and bashing this week?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Strahan View Post
    Is your experience in a military context?

    -Mike
    Mike, I was a Marine Corps marksmanship instructor. Wind and image mirage from the heat in the desert were constant factors and the rifle's not always in the best of shape, but it made me comfortable shooting at that range. I have not had to shoot that distance at game and do not know if I would. My question still is what is an acceptable long shot and what is unethically to far to shoot?

    In my opinion it all rests on the comfort level of the person pulling the trigger and the ballistics of the round they are using.


    Gunner I can take a jest just fine and my stalking is well enough my last two moose were taken with my pistol under 20 yards on the stalk and not sitting in a stand. I am looking for a healthy discussion on the OP subject

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    Quote Originally Posted by gunner View Post


    perhaps you should have spent some of that time practicing stalking techniques
    As a Marine we shot at 500 meters as part of our rifle qualification. The other branches stopped at 300 meters. I knew from his first post he was a fellow Marine and did not need his follow up post to know that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rdrash View Post

    In my opinion it all rests on the comfort level of the person pulling the trigger and the ballistics of the round they are usinng
    Well, that I can totally agree with.
    If you can't Kill it with a 30-06, you should Hide.

    "Dam it all", The Beaver told me.....

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    We are not talking military where you take the shot and count your hits. In warfare if you wound it is better due to taking out 3 to drag him out. The issue is at what point can you say the animal died when I pulled the trigger. Every book or mag is filled with stories of guides with hunters who can not shoot 100 yards, yet we fill the air (tv, forum, ...) with prospects of dream feats. If you know you can make the shot and tell without a spotter, which the show had and could not tell, then you tell me? Yes I believe all shots are up to the shooter, at the same time we have to draw the line on those trying to prove something more. Can I make a 1000 yard shot with confidence? On paper I would lay paper, on an animal I would never pull the trigger. My example was 500 yards and it was put on national tv. 5 people could not call 5 shots, why would we as hunters support this and it was here in AK

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fergy View Post
    We are not talking military where you take the shot and count your hits. In warfare if you wound it is better due to taking out 3 to drag him out. The issue is at what point can you say the animal died when I pulled the trigger. Every book or mag is filled with stories of guides with hunters who can not shoot 100 yards, yet we fill the air (tv, forum, ...) with prospects of dream feats. If you know you can make the shot and tell without a spotter, which the show had and could not tell, then you tell me? Yes I believe all shots are up to the shooter, at the same time we have to draw the line on those trying to prove something more. Can I make a 1000 yard shot with confidence? On paper I would lay paper, on an animal I would never pull the trigger. My example was 500 yards and it was put on national tv. 5 people could not call 5 shots, why would we as hunters support this and it was here in AK
    If I could not get any closer to say a ram or a goat, I was positive it was legal (I have no idea how you could not know with a proper spotting scope) and I was positive on the distance ( I do have a nikon range finder ) then yes I would shoot that distance with a .300 RUM my bullet would drop about 30 inches and still carry 2300 pounds of energy.

    If it was the same situation windy or raining or I was carrying my .270 then no I would not take that shot.



    On another note there will always be unethical or poor hunters out there, I would say in the case of what you saw it is just as much the fault of the editor as the shooters


    My point in the previous post is not about military experience or even shooting at paper its about being confident in the paticular weapon your shooting. I've seen plenty of poor shooting that I can attribute directly to the shooter not being confident of where the round is going to go.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tdelarm View Post
    I'm lost, what's the beef? Who we talking about and bashing this week?
    I don't think anyone is being bashed, Tim. What you might have missed is a thread from the past couple of days where a member was talking about shooting (at) a moose at 1,200 yards. Most folks understandably thought that was a poor idea. The thread got off track and locked as a result, thus this new thread to discuss the practice of taking very long distance shots.


    Lord knows I've screwed up in the field and made poor choices, but I agree with the sentiment of the original poster here (as I understand it) that we need to encourage wise shot choices and ethical hunting practices. There's plenty of gray area where folks can disagree, but winging shots at game at extremely long distances isn't something to be encouraged.

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    Forum Admin Brian M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rdrash View Post
    If I could not get any closer to say a ram or a goat, I was positive it was legal (I have no idea how you could not know with a proper spotting scope) and I was positive on the distance ( I do have a nikon range finder ) then yes I would shoot that distance with a .300 RUM my bullet would drop about 30 inches and still carry 2300 pounds of energy.
    What constitutes "not being able to get any closer"? I know that each situation is different, but I can recall very few times that I couldn't get closer than 500 yards. There were times that it took more than one day to close that gap - heading back to the tent and trying again the next day rather that pushing a less than ideal situation and blowing the stalk - but given patience and time it generally works to get closer. If it doesn't, personally speaking I'd rather let the animal win that round than chance making a poor shot. I'm not good enough to know with certainty that I would make a 500 yard shot, though, which is why I wouldn't take it. My first sheep was killed at just over 400 yards and after that experience I will never take such a long shot again. I was successful - but it was just as much luck as it was skill and in retrospect I had no business taking such a long shot. Now I always keep it within 300 yards and ideally try to get inside of 200 if the terrain allows. Besides, stalking is way more fun than shooting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian M View Post
    I don't think anyone is being bashed, Tim. What you might have missed is a thread from the past couple of days where a member was talking about shooting (at) a moose at 1,200 yards. Most folks understandably thought that was a poor idea. The thread got off track and locked as a result, thus this new thread to discuss the practice of taking very long distance shots.


    Lord knows I've screwed up in the field and made poor choices, but I agree with the sentiment of the original poster here (as I understand it) that we need to encourage wise shot choices and ethical hunting practices. There's plenty of gray area where folks can disagree, but winging shots at game at extremely long distances isn't something to be encouraged.
    Thanks Brian. Wasn't up to speed on the last thread. Wasn't sure where the topic was going. Agree, winging is not good, but I do understand myself hunting in Alaska is a bit different than a tree stand in Wisconsin ;-) Sometimes it might take more than one to bring them down.
    Alaska Outdoors Television ~ Outdoor Channel

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    Then I agree with you and your ability. How many hunting camps or hunters have you come across can you look at and have the confidence to look at and say pull the trigger. Go to the range next time with this in mind (with your abilities) and count how many people have that ability. Not putting down anyone trying to get better, I am too. At the same time if you pull the trigger at 500 and the animal take one step forward who's fault is it for the gut shot. The animal for moving? and it had nothing to do with the wind.

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