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Thread: Why ISN'T the 30-30 an adequate cartridge for Bear Protection?

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    Default Why ISN'T the 30-30 an adequate cartridge for Bear Protection?

    One could ALWAYS create scenarios where it ISN'T, but you could do that for 30-06, 338, or what have you.

    A light handy, fast shootin, LA, with iron sights, little recoil, and 170 grain bullets should have some advantages.

    Besides, I've packed my 30-30 for that reason, many times, and them bars just seem to know better than to mess with me.

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    Default In my thinking, doesn't do enough damage

    I love the 30-30, the .32 special and others like it, probably my two favorite rifles. However, having shot numerous deer, and witnessing the damage and penetration of that 170 grain bullet, I'd have serious reservations about using it for bear protection. Then I think about the bears I've shot and the heavy hides, thick bone structure, and massive musculature of the bears, I think I'd be a lot more comfortable with a fast moving bullet carrying a lot more energy and getting deeper penetration than the 30-30 could provide.

    Perhaps the 45-70 provides a lot of the characteristics you are looking for, but in a package that will do enough damage to get the job done.

    Maybe one of these ballistics guys can chime in on the ft/lbs of energy, etc in that caliber, but I'm just speaking from my experience.

    My advice: If you do have to shoot one with the 30-30, don't stop shooting till it's empty, then reload as fast as you can. If bear protection is your need, and you need something small and fast, I'd opt for a 12 gauge with slugs.

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    i would think anything with fast of velocity and a good shot would work. but most most people dont want to take a second long gun out. my question is why not a stun gun or a light weight tazor?

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    Becuase all Alaska forums members said so....

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    First black bear I ever shot was with a 30-30. It wouldn't be my first choice for protection from am angry charging sow, but for hunting its all about a single well placed shot and for that its a good choice. Just my .02
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    Its at the very least equal to any 44mag.Bear protection is a state of mind thing.
    Now left only to be a turd in the forrest and the circle will be complete.Use me as I have used you

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    Because most folks want the bear to die before they do not after. There is no gaurantee of the biggest of rounds doing the job quick enough but the bigger ones have quite a bit more room for error of shot placement. If you like the short light quick handling of the M94 in 30/30, and who doesn't, take a good look at the Puma 92 in 454 Casull. Although it isn't quite "little recoil", it does offer 10 rounds of 300+ gr bullets at about 2000 fps. If you was to carry one of those through the woods, I doubt if the bears would even bother to come out of hibernation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty of the North View Post
    One could ALWAYS create scenarios where it ISN'T, but you could do that for 30-06, 338, or what have you.

    A light handy, fast shootin, LA, with iron sights, little recoil, and 170 grain bullets should have some advantages.

    Besides, I've packed my 30-30 for that reason, many times, and them bars just seem to know better than to mess with me.

    Smitty of the North
    Because there are at least 100 other calibers that would most likely do a better job by shooting a heavier bullet at adequate velocities. IMO I can not think of any circumstance in the world where I would want to own a 30-30 for hunting anything.

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    Supporting Member iofthetaiga's Avatar
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    Everybody knows a 30-30 is completely inadequate for a bear! In fact, I seriously doubt a 30-30 is even capable of killing a bear! Why would anyone believe otherwise? I bet there has never once been a single bear killed with a 30-30. In fact if anybody claimed to have killed a bear with a 30-30, I would have to call him a lier! Sheesh....everybody knows you gotta have at least a 338 Winny to kill a bear!
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    Why ISN'T the 30-30 an adequate cartridge for Bear Protection?

    When you miss the place you need to hit, to kill the bear your trying to stop..........30-30 + proper placement , your shure to make all things Dead ASAP.
    If you can't Kill it with a 30-06, you should Hide.

    "Dam it all", The Beaver told me.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by iofthetaiga View Post
    Everybody knows a 30-30 is completely inadequate for a bear! In fact, I seriously doubt a 30-30 is even capable of killing a bear! Why would anyone believe otherwise? I bet there has never once been a single bear killed with a 30-30. In fact if anybody claimed to have killed a bear with a 30-30, I would have to call him a lier! Sheesh....everybody knows you gotta have at least a 338 Winny to kill a bear!
    338? I was told a 375 was the bear minimum as long as you had a 500NE back up shooter. Anything less was suicide. As well with the 500NE you don't even have to aim the thing or hit the bear, the muzzle flash alone is enough to make the bear die of a heart attack. Ask the old Pioneers, they'll tell ya!
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    I'll pass. Good deer round though.

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    Its easily the equal of the .44 Mag for bear protection... not that its any more adequate itself. If I'm gonna pack a rifle, I want a more powerful cartridge than the 30-30 in it.

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    it ISN'T, cause i don't have one. whatever gun i have with me at the time i need it IS, but i don't have a .30-.30 so it ISN'T.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BRWNBR View Post
    it ISN'T, cause i don't have one. whatever gun i have with me at the time i need it IS, but i don't have a .30-.30 so it ISN'T.
    hello brwnbr how is it going out in big lake?

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    Well, guys:
    You know that 30-30 bullets are designed rather well for Terminal Performance at 30-30 velocities.
    And, they are Flat-Nosed, and that's spose to help penetration.

    So, watta you think?

    That 30-30 won't penetrate enuff? or won't expand enuff, or the velocity ain't enuff? Shock? All of the above?

    I'm asking WHY, in terms of ballistics/terminal performance. I want reasons that are not just perception.

    "30-30s aren't beeg enuff, gotta have a 30-06". "30-06s aren't beeg enuff, gotta have a 300 Mag.", etc. etc.

    Of course, I'm talkin about close range, too. And, I specified 170 grain bullets, not 150s.

    About Shootability, too, as I alluded to. Like, number of aimed shots, in the same amount of time.

    How about COMPARED to these beeg bore hand cannons, and rifles that are chambered for them too, that are all the rage for Bear Protection?

    Shucky Gee, I load Cast Bullets in my 30-30s too, if that's an issue. The 30-30 is a Natural for cast bullets.

    I'm sort of surprised at the lack of respect for the Awesome Power of the 30-30. Actually, I'm not, but that's because I know the currant perceptions.

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    Well, the only way to prove something is to go do it. So, take your 30-30 and go shoot an unsuspecting brown bear with it with the best well aimed shot you can deliver. Then come back and report as to what happened. There is a very good probability that he won't fall down dead right where you shot him. This happens with much larger calibers than the 30-30. Imagine now that he's ticked and coming at you at about 35mph. The point is the harder you hit them the less likely they are to keep comming. And bigger caliber bullets tend to have a longer wider wound channel making a poor hit more effective. Doesn't mean a 30-30 won't work, just that bigger is more forgiving. I like the size, weight and handling of the Win 92/94s but I'm not fond of the bullet weight or diameter of the 30-30. And you can have it all with a 92 in 454Casull. I would take the 30-30 over some of the handguns some folks are carrying. Probably doesnt matter, as the odds of actually getting attacked by a bear are very, very slim.

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    You all know me and my 32, And what I have to tell you is the fact that most people look at energy and velocity, and the 30-30 exceeds the 454( a popular round, is it not?) in velocity by 1200 ft/sec with a 400 grain bullet, it is 200 ft/lbs more energy than the 454 with that same 400 grainer. Now, you get your self a 200 dollar 30-30 and chop the barrel to 16 inches, and cut the stock so its nice n light and short and you will have a gun that is easy to carry, easy to shoot, way more accurate and extremely light. the 170 grain bullet, and for the 30-30 you can get good bullets, (we are talking factory loads here) that hold together, or you can get um that fragment like crazy, I shot my moose with the 32 with a cheap bullet, and it hit 5 bones and went all the way though, and there was fragments for a 15 inch circle all the way through it, now if you had a good bullet then a cheap bullet so on and so forth, you would have the equivalent of basically loading a shot gun with slugs and buckshot. and then you could shoot a for or what ever with it too cause its not gonna blow it up and the ammo is only 16 bucks a box! as opposed to, what, 50? for a box of 454.

    Now lets talk a bit about recoil, with a 400 grain bulet from a 454, your only gonna get one shot off cause your gonna have the snot kicked out of you. with a 30-30 you can shoot 6 rounds in 5 seconds. and still hit a pie plate at 20 yards. cause recoil is negligent.

    and if the bear does get on top of you, you can whack it with your rifle ir shove it down ints throat, probably wouldn't want to stick your whole arm in a bears mouth intentionally to stick a 1200 dollar pistol in the throat of a bear....
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    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    Just a guess but I'm thinking the 30/30 has killed more bears than bears have killed folks carrying 30/30's.The 30/30 is better than the 7.62X39 and that round takes plenty of big bears in Russia.
    Now left only to be a turd in the forrest and the circle will be complete.Use me as I have used you

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    I'm sure the 30-30 and the 7.62x39 have both killed a bunch of bear. Does that make either adequate for bear protection? I'm pretty sure the mini14 in 223 has killed polar bear so does that make it adequate for bear protection? I'm sure bear have been killed with all sorts of enemic cartridges like the 44Henry,32-20 and probably even the 22LR but I think there is a difference between what will kill a bear and what will kill it fast enough to prevent damage to the shooter especially if the bear is in attack mode. The 30-30 may be enough if you are very calm and a very good shot under extreme stress. There's just not enough margin for error for me to choose the 30-30 for bear protection. Bell shot elephants with a 7x57 and such but I'm not that good.

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