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Thread: Interesting example of how not to CC

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    Member AK Ray's Avatar
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    Default Interesting example of how not to CC

    Negligent discharge in WY Starbucks

    I found a news blurb and followed it to an AP readers digest version, and then finally to an actual article. Funny how medial/journalist condense things to the point that they miss out on the important stuff.

    Quiz time!

    There are several things wrong with this incident, not all of them are firearms related. List out what you find wrong.

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    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    I find it wrong that anyone cares what happened at a starbucks
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    Member sniper3083006's Avatar
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    17 and not legally allowed to own or carry a pistol, the hammer must have been cocked for it to drop on the chambered round, Father encourages daughter to carry but doesn't give the youth the proper tools i.e. training and handgun proffience to do so, mother says "she does like guns and to point it at a bad person if she was on trouble" training would teach the daughter that you don't point a gun at anything you don't intend to destroy also if the threat is real pointing it may not do the trick you have to be ready and willing to stop the threat, Parents should know laws, ordinances and limitations in their state and city to minimize legal concerns. They parents should be held just as accountable as the daughter.

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    Supporting Member iofthetaiga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sniper3083006 View Post
    They parents should be held just as accountable as the daughter.
    The daughter can not be held accountable for failing to recognize that her parents are idiots. The parents provided the child a pistol, accompanied by extraordinarily bad advise/instruction. The parents are 100 percent at fault here, not the child.
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    Besides the obvious, I have a question.

    How do you "nearly miss" someone without hitting them?

    the article says the bullet passed about 12" away from a guy. then it says the bullet "nearly missed" his head.
    I'd agree with you, but then we'd both be wrong.

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    Member Frostbitten's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iofthetaiga View Post
    The daughter can not be held accountable for failing to recognize that her parents are idiots. The parents provided the child a pistol, accompanied by extraordinarily bad advise/instruction. The parents are 100 percent at fault here, not the child.
    I agree with you, but I'll add that while she "can not be held accountable for failing to recognize that her parents are idiots", she darn sure should be held accountable for her own actions.

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    Supporting Member iofthetaiga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frostbitten View Post
    I agree with you, but I'll add that while she "can not be held accountable for failing to recognize that her parents are idiots", she darn sure should be held accountable for her own actions.
    The discharge of the weapon was the result of dropping her purse. This was an accident. Do you propose to hold her legally accountable for dropping her purse?

    The legally offending action was being in possession of the weapon. This was a direct result of actions of her parents, who gave her the weapon, told her to carry it, and under what circumstances to use it.

    Shall we attempt to hold the child legally accountable for accepting and following instruction from her parents?

    The parents are legally accountable in this case, and rightfully so.
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    Quote Originally Posted by iofthetaiga View Post
    The discharge of the weapon was the result of dropping her purse. This was an accident. Do you propose to hold her legally accountable for dropping her purse?

    The legally offending action was being in possession of the weapon. This was a direct result of actions of her parents, who gave her the weapon, told her to carry it, and under what circumstances to use it.

    Shall we attempt to hold the child legally accountable for accepting and following instruction from her parents?

    The parents are legally accountable in this case, and rightfully so.
    the parents are accountable for giving an 16 year old girl without proper gun safety training. The girl is responsible not carring a gun when A) does not know how to handle it B) told to break the law because mom and dad said so.

    If she was drinking and driving and her parents knew about it then both are at fault. AGREE????

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    Supporting Member iofthetaiga's Avatar
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    The girl is a minor, and as such her parents are legally responsible for her actions in most circumstances. If the child had attempted to use the gun to commit a crime such as robbing a gas station, I would agree a case should be made for holding her responsible for her actions. In this case the gun was provided to the minor by her parents and she was told to carry it. She was following the instructions of her parents, and not willfully attempting to violate any law she was aware of. The parents are literally directly as well as legally responsible for the child's actions in this case. To even be arguing about this is ridiculous.
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    Quote Originally Posted by iofthetaiga View Post
    The girl is a minor, and as such her parents are legally responsible for her actions in most circumstances. If the child had attempted to use the gun to commit a crime such as robbing a gas station, I would agree a case should be made for holding her responsible for her actions. In this case the gun was provided to the minor by her parents and told to carry it. She was following the instructions of her parents, and not willfully attempting to violate any law she was aware of. The parents are literally directly as well as legally responsible for the childs actions in this case. To even be arguing about this is ridiculous.
    At age 16 she is aware of the law. Her parents cannot tell her to break the law so it is ok. People (even minors) need to be accountable for their action. just because she is a minor does not let her off the hook for breaking the law. I do not know what world you grew up in but Kids today are a lot smarter then you realize. The internet educates our children more than the parent anymore. The libtards want to tell parents how to raise their children: Be kind to them, don't spank them but talk to them........ Sorry children need to be accountable for their actions in society. "To even be arguing about this is ridiculous" We will call it a debate.... so there.

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    Member Frostbitten's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iofthetaiga View Post
    The discharge of the weapon was the result of dropping her purse. This was an accident. Do you propose to hold her legally accountable for dropping her purse?

    The legally offending action was being in possession of the weapon. This was a direct result of actions of her parents, who gave her the weapon, told her to carry it, and under what circumstances to use it.

    Shall we attempt to hold the child legally accountable for accepting and following instruction from her parents?

    The parents are legally accountable in this case, and rightfully so.
    Don't get me wrong, the parents should be held accountable (I doubt they will, but they should). My point is that she made a conscious decision to carry the weapon in an unsafe manner. It doesn't matter who told her to do what. I know the argument is that she is "only 17". If this all happened a number of days from now when she was 18, would it be expected that she be held accountable then? Fortunately for her, the law will prevent anything bad from happening...for now. The idea that "everything is someone else's fault" is the mantra that generation has been conditioned to, this is just another example.

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    Member Frostbitten's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iofthetaiga View Post
    The girl is a minor, and as such her parents are legally responsible for her actions in most circumstances. If the child had attempted to use the gun to commit a crime such as robbing a gas station, I would agree a case should be made for holding her responsible for her actions. In this case the gun was provided to the minor by her parents and she was told to carry it. She was following the instructions of her parents, and not willfully attempting to violate any law she was aware of. The parents are literally directly as well as legally responsible for the child's actions in this case. To even be arguing about this is ridiculous.
    Ignorance of the law is no excuse.

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    Supporting Member iofthetaiga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FishKing View Post
    At age 16 she is aware of the law. Her parents cannot tell her to break the law so it is ok. People (even minors) need to be accountable for their action. just because she is a minor does not let her off the hook for breaking the law. I do not know what world you grew up in but Kids today are a lot smarter then you realize. The internet educates our children more than the parent anymore. The libtards want to tell parents how to raise their children: Be kind to them, don't spank them but talk to them........ Sorry children need to be accountable for their actions in society. "To even be arguing about this is ridiculous" We will call it a debate.... so there.
    FK, you're certainly entitled to your personal opinion as to how children should be raised. I might or might not agree with you, but that is irrelevant here. All that is relevant, from a legal perspective, is that the child was provided a gun by her parents and told to carry it. The parents are legally responsible for knowing the law. The child is not legally responsible for knowing the law. There is no reference in the story indicating that the child was aware of the law, nor is there any legal expectation that she should be. The world I was raised in, Sir, is the world where children obey their parents and trust their parents not to mislead them.
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    I hafta agree with iofthetiaga:

    The parents should be cited.

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    Supporting Member iofthetaiga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frostbitten View Post
    Ignorance of the law is no excuse.
    Certainly true for adults, to whom the law is applicable.
    ...he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods & errors. ~Thomas Jefferson
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    Member Frostbitten's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iofthetaiga View Post
    Certainly true for adults, to whom the law is applicable.
    Not always the case however. There are numerous cases of people under the age of 18 being tried as adults, as they should be. Believe me, I'm not saying that she should be locked up for this incident. What I'm saying is that she needs to be held accountable for her actions. Her parents failed her in this respect, and you are saying that society should do the same.
    Last edited by Frostbitten; 12-29-2011 at 16:52. Reason: typo

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    Member FishKing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by iofthetaiga View Post
    Certainly true for adults, to whom the law is applicable.
    Really, so a 17 year old can run red lights, speed, drive and drink at the same time. Takes dad's gun from the house and go kill the neighbor kid because he "mean mugged" him........ (edited)
    Last edited by Michael Strahan; 12-29-2011 at 17:39. Reason: Flame

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    Supporting Member iofthetaiga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frostbitten View Post
    The idea that "everything is someone else's fault" is the mantra that generation has been conditioned to, this is just another example.
    This is an example of persons confusing their personal beliefs with the legal reality of the matter. "The idea that everything is someone else's fault" is an ideology that was injected into this discussion by others than myself. Nor have I resorted to barely literate sophomoric name calling, such as FishKing is apparently only capable of. All of my statements have had to do with the law, not my personal beliefs. If you think the law should reflect that an individual be allowed to carry a gun, and be legally accountable for knowing the applicable laws, at a younger age than what the law currently says, then by all means work to change the law.
    ...he who knows nothing is nearer to truth than he whose mind is filled with falsehoods & errors. ~Thomas Jefferson
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frostbitten View Post
    Ignorance of the law is no excuse.
    Actually, ignorance of the law is universal. As has been discussed in other threads, there are now so many tens of thousands of laws on the books that no one is able to even be aware of them all, much less accurately know them. Every single one of us breaks some laws almost every single day, without even being aware of it. So all the petty arguments about why some particular law "should" be known, or "should" be obvious, are merely personal beliefs.

    Constantly repeating simplistic truisms such as "ignorance of the law is no excuse" doesn't turn them into facts.
    Inspiration is simply the momentary cessation of stupidity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AK Ray View Post
    I found a news blurb and followed it to an AP readers digest version, and then finally to an actual article. Funny how medial/journalist condense things to the point that they miss out on the important stuff.
    I really commend Ray's diligence in following the blurb back to a local source! Unfortunately, the Wyoming Tribune Eagle is better known for local flavor than for accurate reporting. Most other papers, including the AP blurb, are reporting that "The bullet went through a chair and into a wall and narrowly missed several customers." This is distinctly different from "After nearly missing Basile’s head, the bullet hit the west wall of the store, bounced back to the east and rolled under the coffee counter." Something funny going on here since both can't be true.
    Inspiration is simply the momentary cessation of stupidity.

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